The debt management I handle directly myself with all my creditors so no signed agreement in place. I guess I'll just have to wait until it sells and then try to negotiate. I've spoken to National Debtline and they advised I should make it clear that I will be a pain to deal with by going to the ombudsman about my mortgage missell (under their discretionary powers to look at older cases) and over the PPI shambles as well as making it clear they have already admitted no CCAs on many of my debts. They said the most important thing was to 'sell' to my creditors the fact that it would be easier, quicker, and more cost-effective, for them to take my offer than to pursue me for more.

That's not what I was asking for - I was asking where I stood in terms of the bank being able to force me to use all of the money to pay unsecured debts or not. I simply shared the additional information in case it helped. Not to worry, I got the general advice so we'll leave it there.

Thanks that's really helpful info. With regards to the deposit for somewhere else to live, my husband and I were looking to sell his house too and use money from both our homes to buy somewhere new (currently bursting at the seams in this one, it's in serious disrepair, and it's an awful area to live in). Could I in the interim, rather than waiting until we've bought a new place as that could take some time and I was hoping to have debts settled before we look to move) just give him a proportion of the money to pay off of his mortgage so I no longer have that as an asset? Or I could use the money for repairs - it is in urgent need of some serious structural repairs and a leaking roof (ceiling collapsing in two of our upstairs rooms). Or could they force me to pay it all to them? I suppose it depends like you say on when I approach them to settle.

My SAR was returned, NatWest confirmed they couldn't find all the CCAs and that whatever they could find, was in the SAR file. When I was doing my PPI claim, I was told not to start lots of different threads but to keep everything to one thread... All I wanted really was some general advice on negotiating a settlement, and how to handle it to ensure that they don't start chasing me for the remainder once it's settled. Are there template letters?

Thanks for the replies. I no longer bank with NatWest (who the lion's share of my debts and my mortgage are with). There is no charge on the property, all the debts are unsecured (except obviously the mortgage). I have a bank account that is completely separate from all my creditors. My debts are: NatWest: Unsecured Loan approx £20,000 - monthly payments going to debt collectors currently NatWest: Unsecured Loan approx £8000 - monthly payments going to debt collectors currently NatWest: Credit Card approx £3500 NatWest: Credit card approx £3500 Capital One: Credit card approx £800 - also with debt collectors Tesco Bank: Credit card approx £1500 NatWest: Overdraft from closed account approx £1000 Total: approx £38,300 I don't know if it's useful to mention so will just in case - part of the reason I'm in such massive debt is that just before interest rates plummeted in 2008, NatWest pressured me into taking out a remortgage with them (I was with Northern Rock at the time and my fixed deal was about to end). The sales person told me that she had inside info that interest rates were about to skyrocket even more. I know it was gullible of me but having seen how my parents struggled in the 80's with increasing interest rates, and already being in a position of financial difficulty, I accepted their mortgage offer. A few months later interest rates dropped massively and it turned out I was paying about double what I would have been had I simply left my mortgage on a variable rate. I made a complaint and they refused to do anything about it and now I'm told by the ombudsman it's too late to make a complaint as you have 8 weeks (I think) after the bank's final response to log it with the ombudsman. I did a SAR request when I did my PPI claim (which is still in dispute because NatWest are asserting they partially refunded me when I took out new loans but they're refusing to prove this - I guess that's another thread). Several of the accounts (credit cards I think) are missing the CCAs. I was told on another thread in this forum that going down the unenforceable route is no longer an option as it's been tested in court that banks can simply put together a new agreement document based on the info they have on file - is this the case? I think that's all the info you need. Let me know if there's anything else. Obviously part of the reason I want to negotiate a low settlement is because I need a deposit for a new home but also because Natwest screwed me over so badly with the mortgage not to mention the fact they're still trying to screw me over PPI. They also told me that because my complaint has taken so long (their fault, not mine - I began my complaint in 2010) they will no longer keep their promise to pay the interest directly to me but will use the whole refund to pay off some of my debts. Another part of the reason I have the credit card debts I do is because I used them to pay off mortgage arrears (NatWest pressured me into doing it to clear the two months' arrears - at the time my mortgage payments were £1000 a month). Looking back, I realise how gullible I was as a NatWest customer - I've been a customer of theirs since I was 4 years old and stupidly trusted them. I ended up really unwell with all of the stress and I just want to use this opportunity to wipe the slate clean and get on with my life but I don't want to end up with nothing so would really like to negotiate a reduced lump sum settlement if possible. Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi there. I'm currently in debt with several companies, including NatWest, Capital One, and Tesco Bank. NatWest is my biggest creditor and I also have a mortgage with them. I've been doing my own debt management plan for about 5 years so far and am currently paying £1 a month on all of my debts due to a drop in income (I'm currently a part-time student and do freelance work so my income varies). Some of them have been passed to debt collection agencies, including the NatWest debts. I'm (finally now the market is good) selling my property so I can wipe the slate clean and start again. I'm going to need some of the money from the sale to put a deposit on somewhere else to live so I won't have the full value of the debts. Having spoken to NatWest, they seemed to imply they could try to force me to use the full amount from the sale to clear my debts (which would leave me with nowhere to live). They also told me I should negotiate a settlement directly with them, even though the debt collection agents have told me I should negotiate with them. What I'd like to know is: Do I make my offer of a settlement to my creditors or the debt collectors? Can my creditors force me to use the full amount from the sale on my debts, or am I entitled to use it to put down on a new home? Is there a post/guide with advice on the best approach to take when making an offer for settlement? Am I right in my understanding that I should get somebody else to actually make the settlement payment in order to protect myself from any further action?

Thanks, I did start a separate thread and they got merged into one again so I thought I needed to discuss all my issues in one thread. Thanks for the spreadsheet, it's better than the ones I had seen. The way I had done it was to have a column for the monthly interest rate but this one seems a bit simpler so I will use that. A further issue that has arisen out of all this is that when I received my SAR file, it became clear that NatWest has lost the vast majority of my credit agreements. Shall I start a new thread as I'd like some advice on whether I could use this to help me negotiate a settlement figure? (I'm going to sell my flat to try and wipe the slate clean but am not sure the equity will cover the entire debt).

Ok thanks for the advice - I've asked NatWest for a breakdown of how they calculated the loan PPI and I will check it off against that and my SAR paperwork. Regarding the credit card, I spoke to the FOS and they advised that companies are entitled to use the entire amount including statutory interest to pay off outstanding debts if they so wish. They did however say that if NatWest have told me one thing then done another, I could escalate it to the FOS. I have spoken to NatWest credit cards again today (I asked for a manager call back) and they advised they would respond to my dispute over the amount within the next few days but they wouldn't change their decision to use the whole amount to pay off my debt. What they did say is that it is different for NatWest loans - and NatWest loans have confirmed to me that they do send a cheque for the interest. One final note regarding credit cards, I created my own spreadsheet for the calculations as none of the ones I've found on here or elsewhere online seemed to exactly calculate a refund including card interest charged on PPI premiums. Having spoken to the FOS I do need to amend the formulas slightly as I'd mistakenly added the 8% statutory interest from the date the premium was added to my statement rather than when it was paid off. However once I've done this I will share on the site in case others may wish to use it.

Right an update and a query. Good news is NatWest has agreed to uphold all of my complaints on both my credit card and my loans. On the loans, I have asked for a detailed breakdown and will then match it off against my own calculations. I needed to know how much PPI I had paid as quite a few of the loans were paid off early with other loans and NatWest is saying that when the loans were paid off, the outstanding PPI was refunded at the time. On the credit card, I had an offer from NatWest over a month ago. I wrote back to say that the calculations were incorrect and gave them a breakdown of what the correct calculations should have been. I gave them 28 days to acknowledge and make payment of the correct amount. 28 days has since passed and I spoke to them on the phone today to find out what has happened. Apparently they just ignored the letter and have used the total refund based on their calculations, not mine, including interest, against my outstanding debts. So my questions are: Can they use the interest payments against my outstanding debts? They have asserted that they can but my understanding was that they must pay the interest directly to me. What do I do if they will not accept my calculations despite a detailed breakdown with evidence to prove it? Are they correct in telling me that when a loan was paid off early, the rest of the PPI was cancelled rather than rolled up into the next loan?

Just made a complaint by phone. Refused to give me a complaint reference, saying they had no idea what I was talking about because they don't give out complaint references... Told me that they absolutely aren't trying to catch me out and that the questions are to help me. I asked why they'd be asking me to repeat answers I'd already given them in writing. They advised this must have been an admin error. All very suspicious. Should I wait for a response to my PPI claim or go straight to the ombudsman with this?

Thanks, I normally would have done but had just woken up and am on painkillers as I'm recovering from a car accident so wasn't really with it. I will make a complaint - should I make it to the PPI address or the NatWest or RBS head office? Every question he asked me, I asked him which job he was asking me about but he would only give me dates, saying he didn't have the forms in front of him. I told him well nor did I so he needed to find the forms and call me back if he wanted more info. I told him he'd need to tell me which job he was referring to or I wouldn't be able to help. I was able to tell him more about the self-employed jobs I had on top of my main full time employment but there was nothing in any of these that would have meant them rejecting my claim as my earnings in each of them would have likely meant a claim on the insurance was rejected anyway (based on my experience of trying to claim on one of the more recent policies). I'm really annoyed, they've already upheld one of my complaints over the same reason s o they've put in writing that they believe I was told I needed the PPI in order to get credit so surely they can't now turn around and deny it?

Hi there, bit of an update and a question regarding NatWest. I had numerous claims including one credit card claim. The first one I sent off was the credit card and NatWest upheld my complaint and made an offer. It was lower than it should have been based on my calculations so I wrote back with my calculations stating the amount it should be for. today, I had a call from the RBS PPI team regarding the loan PPI claims I'm making asking me lots of questions that I had already answered on the forms. The person who called was really rude, was being really unspecific and kept flipping back and forth between forms then denied having the forms in front of him. It was as though he was trying to make me unsure. I kept telling him he needed to be specific and tell me which job he was asking for more information about but he was just asking dates. I told him he was asking me to go back over 10 years and off the top of my head, I couldn't remember and that I had referred to old tax forms and paperwork to complete the paperwork regarding self-employment and second jobs. I told him that the main reason for my mis-selling complaint was that I was told by NatWest staff members on numerous occasions that I would be less likely to receive my loan if I didn't take out PPI and that scaremongering was used. I said that they should be upholding my complaint on that basis alone without even needing to query my employment history. He got really stroppy and then ended the call quite abruptly. Is this allowed? Anyone have experience with this? It felt really harassing and rude to be honest, like he really doubted what I had put on the forms.

I've been doing a lot of reading, I just wanted to be absolutely certain before I went ahead with my PPI claim. Don't worry, I won't ask for help again.

Oh yes, I just remembered, one of the credit cards I'm paying off, that they lost the CCA for, was taken out pre-2007.

Ok thanks. So in answer to my questions do I take it that: 1. I have no room to negotiate my position based on lost CCAs (for example, to negotiate a smaller payment if I pay off as a lump sum)? 2. I should just focus on getting my PPI claims sorted? One other question I asked earlier that still hasn't been answered is: 3. I can remember the PPI sales conversations quite clearly, I remember some were in person, some over the phone, however I can't remember which one took place in relation to which loans. The PPI questionnaire asks whether the policy was sold in person or over the loan. If I can't remember which policy was sold in person and which over the phone, will this affect the credibility of my application?

Thanks for your reply. The credit card agreement I did have showed how the application had been made - via the internet. My third question was that I'd read about people disputing and having their credit agreements cancelled so they no longer had to pay when banks had no record of the credit agreement. I wanted to know if it was possible to dispute my debt on the basis of there being no credit agreement. Is it possible or has there been a court judgement to stop that practice? What's a recon copy? The loans that had PPI on were all pre-2007. The loans I'm currently paying off (that don't have PPI on but were partly used to clear pre-2007 loans with PPI on) were taken out post-2007. I've since been back through my SAR pack and found a letter (well hidden amongst my mortgage statements - wonder if that was deliberate) stating that: 'We have provided statements for your loan accounts, as after a thorough search of the NatWest Group data, we were unable to locate your loan agreements. Our Group Records Management Policy allows for the retention of 6 years of personal data to be held. Complete statements will follow under a separate letter.' One of the loans I'm still paying off was taken out just over 6 years ago. The other was under 6 years ago. Do I have any options here? ETA: Even if I can just dispute in order to buy myself some respite from repayments that would be good as I've suffered a temporary setback income wise meaning I'm only making token payments at the moment and the pressure is increasing from NatWest and other creditors. My credit file is already mud so I don't see that I have much to lose there. Sorry for the length of this post in advance, I thought it might be helpful if I clarify my entire situation in one post as it's a little convoluted with all the different posts. I currently owe around £35k to NatWest, RBS, Tesco, & Capital One in credit cards and loans. I have been paying this in an informal DMP since 2011 when I had a change in circumstances and am unlikely to earn anywhere as much as I was back then. One of the loans I have was taken out when my mortgage payments shot up due to NatWest pressuring me (and lying in the sales meeting saying that they had inside info rates were about to shoot up) into taking out a fixed rate remortgage just before the interest rates plummeted. I was stuck for 3 years paying almost double I would have been had I just held on for the drop in interest rates. I took the loan out partly just to survive and keep up with other debts. In hindsight I know I should have just gone into a DMP but at the time I was a bit green. I did make a complaint about this but NatWest wouldn't help at all and I believe it's too late to go to the Ombudsman now. I'm currently making token £1 payments as I'm self employed and not earning at the moment (this is temporary - time of year more than anything). Some of the debts I'm still paying directly to the creditors, others have been passed to solicitors/DCA although not sold on - just being collected on behalf of creditors. I received a letter from NatWest late last year regarding PPI - even though they had previously told me over the phone that it was too late to claim. I did a SAR to find out which accounts had PPI on. One of the PPI cases is a credit card I'm still paying off, for which they were able to provide the CCA with my signature. I've submitted a PPI claim for that one. The other accounts (all loans) that had PPI on have all been paid off (they were pretty old) although I am paying off loans now that were partly used to pay off the loans with PPI on. Apart from the CCA provided for the one credit card I'm still paying off, NatWest has admitted in writing that it cannot find any of the other CCAs for my other outstanding credit card or loan debts. I owe the bulk of my debts to NatWest on the accounts they've lost the agreements for. I've paid off approximately half of the debts since I took them out, and having used a number of calculators, at a conservative estimate, I should be due around £10-12,000 in PPI if they uphold my claim (for which I have good grounds). Even before 2011 when I started the DMP, life was a real struggle (largely due to the huge mortgage payments I felt I had no choice but to agree to on a remortgage) and this has cause much misery in my personal life as far back as I can remember. I've suffered from depression, insomnia, ill health, my marriage has suffered immensely. I know I'm not unique, and there are lots of people suffering the same or worse but ultimately, what I'd like to do, if at all possible, is negotiate with NatWest to bring my total outstanding debt down as low as possible so I might be able to get the funds (possibly through selling my home which I think may have a small amount of equity now) to make a lump sum payment and start rebuilding my life with a clean slate (I realise my credit rating will be mud but it is anyway so nothing to lose there). The PPI forms coming through and then the SAR file admitting lost CCAs has given me the motivation to try and find a way out that means I won't be stuck making payments for the next 10-15 years or having to go down an IVA or insolvency route. So, my questions are: - As NatWest can't find my CCAs, I don't know how each PPI policy was sold to me (I know some were in person, others by phone and I remember the conversations well but I can't remember which event was for which PPI policy). Will my inability to state on the form whether it was sold in person/over the phone affect the credibility of my claim? - Does the loss of my CCAs give me any room to negotiate the value of the debts, based on the fact that in theory they could be unenforceable in court? Not that I'd be able to cope with the stress of it going that far, I just want to know if there's a possibility I could use it to negotiate and also put a spanner in the works to give me some breathing space from payments and chasing for payment. - If I'm going to do PPI claims and dispute the debt based on CCAs, is there a recommended order I proceed with this? Will one affect the potential outcome of the other? Or should I simply be upfront with NatWest and go to them saying I want to negotiate based on these things? Again, sorry for the sheer length of the post but I thought if people are to help me, I should probably give as much info as possible. Thanks in advance.

Also, I meant to ask - I'm finding it difficult to work out how much I'm owed because I had PPI on 3 loans, each one taken out and paying off the remainder of the previous. Also, I had PPI on a credit card which the PPI was added every month for.

had a letter from NatWest late last year regarding PPI with a short form enclosed. I did some reading and took the general consensus that it would be better to do a SAR and fill out the full ombudsman forms in some detail to have the best chance of my claim being taken seriously. Fast forward to this week, my SAR file arrives - a month after my SAR deadline had passed - and all but one of the credit agreements is missing. How can this be? I wanted the credit agreements so I could remember how each of the loans was applied for - in person or over the phone - as although I think I can remember, I've had so many loans I wanted to make sure I put the correct thing down for each one where I'm making a PPI claim. My questions are: 1. What can I do to find out how I applied for said loans & credit cards without the agreements or any notes? 2. Will NatWest be able to check if the info isn't included in my SAR file? 3. Am I right in thinking that no credit agreement no longer means a debt can be written off due to a court judgement that upheld the debt?

I have quite a large amount of debt, the majority of which (over £30k) is with NatWest over various loans and credit cards. I also have a balance of around £800 with Capital One. I have been paying all of them off in a self-arranged and self-managed arrangement for the last few years. Recently, I've had a temporary loss of income. I wrote to all my creditors to explain this, also mentioning that I would appreciate it if they could go easy on me because I do suffer with anxiety and depression, largely because of the debts. NatWest happily gave me 3 months of token payments, asking for a review and update after that time. Capital One wrote back saying they would not accept my token payments unless I had a doctor's note. I don't currently have a doctor's note as it's something I had therapy for a few years back and have learned on the whole just to cope with when I suffer from it. I'm sure my doctor would provide one if needed but when money's tight, I'd rather not have to pay for doctors' notes. I wrote back to Capital One explaining that NatWest had accepted my situation, and bearing in mind my reason for asking for token payments was a loss of income rather than the depression (that was just to ask them to back off a bit), why couldn't they accept it? A few weeks later Capital One wrote to me telling me that because of my refusal to co-operate (!) that I had left them no choice but to refer my case to Frederickson. They told me to cancel all payments and to wait to hear from Frederickson to make a new arrangement. Now, Frederickson have been texting me non-stop for the last few days, not mentioning Capital One or leaving any info other than a reference number. I don't really want to have to deal with them over the phone as I've read they can be quite aggressive and that's the last thing I feel able to cope with at the moment - I'm much better putting things in writing. What I'm asking (and sorry for the long-winded explanation of getting there) is: Should I wait for Frederickson to write to me or am I best phoning them to ask them to write to me? Should I cancel payments to Capital One as instructed or will this make me look bad if things do progress? Am I right that at just over £750 of debt to Capital One, Frederickson could take me to court? Is it probably advisable that I now ask for a doctor's note? Any general advice regarding Frederickson? I've also read about people getting their Capital One debts quashed based on their CCA's - is that worth exploring or is it not really worth the effort? Thanks very much for your help.

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

Surely it puts the value of the debt into dispute? I thought disputes could be over the value of the debt.

Recently I had a letter from NatWest telling me I may be due a PPI refund. I believe I will be as I was told I needed the PPI to get approved for credit. I'm following the advice I received on this in the appropriate CAG forum to request my data to pursue the claim properly. I'm currently unable to make any more than token payments anyway as I've had a temporary loss of work (I'm self-employed - another reason I shouldn't have been sold PPI). I've been given breathing space by my majority creditors and they've accepted my token payments all bar Capital One who I owe the least to. Typical! When my period of breathing space comes to an end, I was wondering, would I be able to buy myself some more time by writing to NatWest (they are my majority creditor) and saying I dispute the value of the debt and therefore, until I receive my data under the request, and my PPI claim is settled, I will not be making any payments? Or would I still have to come to an arrangement to pay whilst my claim was in process?

Ok that's a bit disappointing - I could really do with the money in cash! Oh well, still I suppose any reduction in my debts would be good. I was going to send off the form without doing a SAR so I could get it resolved sooner but seeing as I may not even see the money, I may as well do it properly and request a SAR. Can I check, is this the correct address for a full SAR from NatWest? Data Protection Manager Regulatory Risk 2nd Floor Business House B Goggarburn PO Box 1000 Edinburgh EH12 1HQ Also, is there an online calculator or guide where I can figure out what I'd be owed? Thanks very much for all your help.

I've just had the forms from NatWest for PPI on loans going back as far as 10 years. I'm a little confused as I was told (by NatWest) that there was a time limit of 6 years on making these claims. There are a number of reasons why I believe I'm eligible to reclaim the PPII was told repeatedly that not taking PPI meant I was more likely to be refused a loan My employment over that period changed between employed and self-employed, the staff who completed my loan application knew this and didn't imform me that this would mean I might not be covered by the PPI A staff member told me to always put 'employed' as my employment status even though I changed between statuses & advised during one application I would soon be changing employment status - they didn't mention any of the implications regarding self-employment I have a number of debts outstanding with NatWest that I am paying in an informal debt management arrangement as well as a number of debts with other providers. My NatWest current account has been closed in so far as I can no longer use it. However it is open in the sense that I can still use the sort code and acc number to make payments to pay off the overdraft I had when I closed it to begin paying off my debts in an arrangement. What I'd like to know is: Can NatWest force me to use the money to pay debts I have with them or can I request they pay me by cheque? (I have debts with other companies so I would be required to allocate the money equally between them if I was to use it on my debts) Am I best giving all the reasons why I think I was mis-sold or just to stick to one and keep my answers on the form brief (they're a bit of an essay currently!) Thanks in advance.

I redeemed my Northern Rock mortgage some years ago now but I've had a letter through this morning enclosing a cheque. The letter says: 'NRAM is committed to providing our current and previous customers with a great level of service. To ensure we maintain these levels, we have reviewed our previous Mortgage Application process and have identified that whilst your account is now redeemed, it appears that we made an administrative error when your account was originally set up. Therefore a cheque of £XXX.XX is attached to rectify this error. Included in this amount is £XXX.XX representing 8% simple interest on the amount charged in error.' Now I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth but I can't help feeling really suspicious about this. No bank I've ever dealt with has voluntarily sent customers cheques for errors - I mean just look at PPI claims and bank charges refunds. I can't help wondering if there is some sort of reasoning behind it - such as the error actually potentially requiring them to pay out larger amounts. For that reason I was wondering - should I hang fire from banking the cheque? Anyone know what this is about - the letter doesn't even state what the charge was!