chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue **I WON**

[chezt]

Sorry, confused here, I meant the letter from CCCS, as they are acting as LW's agents as DCA, aren't they ?

 

Now ur confusing ME! CCCS (Consumer Credit Counselling Service) are the one I have arranged the DMP with - the Debt Collectors it seems LW have passed my account on to are caled Debt Managers Limited.

 

SO do u mean to send a copy of the Debt Managers letter to LW??

 

If LW are the ones who've appointed DM why do u think I should send 'em a copy?

[chezt]

Ok....the stat notice, you don't need to send that as you have asked for the default to be removed in your POCs....remember? This wasn't mentioned 'cos I filed on MCOL & at the time they were'nt threatening defaults etc ... this is a recent thing You will be using the Section 14 argument....that the defaulted amount is an inaccuate reflection of the debt owed because it is made up of unlawful charges.

 

You would only need to send a stat notice if you had settled the debt but wanted the default removed and couldn't do it via an unfair charges claim etc.

I thought that you were going to draft a letter using section 14?

Bear with me but I'm confused now 'cos the copy letter u pasted (See Post #71) for me to use was the statutory notice not Sec 14??

 

Is the debt made up totally of charges or will there be a balance left over to pay? If there is going to be a balance then can you pay that off once the claim is settled? If not you'll have to work a repayment schedule out with them so as to avoid the 'default' situation again. There will still be a balance & this debt is part of the DMP with CCCS so I am already paying towards it via them ..... they have been aware of the situation a few months now.

 

I will help you with the letter if you just draft a skeleton with the relevant bits in. That'd be luvly! Do u have the letter/quotes to hand ... if not don't worry - I'll go hunting

 

Hope this helps

 

Wxxx

 

I've answered all your Q's in bold red hunni

[chezt]

OK Willow ... just back-tracked & spotted your post #75!! Will have a good read n av a 'play with composing a letter using this instead ... thanks!

[bill-k]

Now ur confusing ME! CCCS (Consumer Credit Counselling Service) are the one I have arranged the DMP with - the Debt Collectors it seems LW have passed my account on to are caled Debt Managers Limited.

 

SO do u mean to send a copy of the Debt Managers letter to LW??

 

If LW are the ones who've appointed DM why do u think I should send 'em a copy?

Sorry, Chez, I meant DC Ltd. Sometimes (frequently !) the left hand & right hand don't know what each other is doing. It can help to remind them sometimes.

 

But like I said earlier, this ain't my strong point. The only qualification I might have is that I took LW to court before, but it was a contract dispute.

 

Just tell me to bog off, we're mates !!

[Guest willowb]

It is quite a threatening letter .... should I write to them telling them the account is in dispute with Littlewoods & there is a current county court claim against them so suggest they bog off back to Littlewoods???

Right Ok now we are getting somewhere! You need to amend your POCs....you can do this by filling in an N244 form which you can download from the HMCS website. You'll have to pay £35 but if you don't do this then you may have to start another claim for the default removal anyway....so, much cheaper this way.

 

In your amended POCs include a request to have any default markers made on the account be removed. Also mention that they defaulted the account whilst the it was in dispute and therefore this is reason you have had to amend your origional POCs. All your documentation should support this.

 

I can help you with the N244 form.

 

 

Does this make sense?

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

OK Willow ... just back-tracked & spotted your post #75!! Will have a good read n av a 'play with composing a letter using this instead ... thanks!

Forget all of that now and concentrate on the N244 form, this is your best chance at getting the default removed - by attaching it to the existing claim.

 

I'll be back later after I've bathed the pixies and put'em to bed!!!

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Just tell me to bog off, we're mates !!

 

Bog Off Mate!! ... I'm confused enough!

 

 

( i take it I'm no sending a copy letter anywhere now then! PMSL!)

[chezt]

Right Ok now we are getting somewhere! You need to amend your POCs....you can do this by filling in an N244 form which you can download from the HMCS website. You'll have to pay £35 but if you don't do this then you may have to start another claim for the default removal anyway....so, much cheaper this way.

 

In your amended POCs include a request to have any default markers made on the account be removed. Also mention that they defaulted the account whilst the it was in dispute and therefore this is reason you have had to amend your origional POCs. All your documentation should support this.

 

I can help you with the N244 form.

 

 

Does this make sense?

 

Wxxx

 

Yes completely!

 

Forget all of that now and concentrate on the N244 form, this is your best chance at getting the default removed - by attaching it to the existing claim.

 

I'll be back later after I've bathed the pixies and put'em to bed!!!

 

Wxxx

 

Am I ok to do this at this stage also ... I just sent my AQ a week ago? I know even though I may get this removed that they'll prob start this all over again later as I won't be able to pay off the whole debt but I AM paying towards it with the DMP & it's really more of a principle thing that the account is in dispute, I'm taking them to court & they're passing it to a DCA!! Oh well spose the info they convey then will be based on the correct balance etc. Also if they can't come up with a copy agreement I can presumably dispute the whole debt!?

 

My lil muffin is just having her bath then it's time to settle her to sleep to .... Hubby n I also have a bottle of red waiting to be supped & he wants to watch the 'new' Godzilla film on sky!

 

So, no rush hunnie! Thanks muchly in advance

[bill-k]

Bog Off Mate!! ... I'm confused enough!

Your wish is my command O Chez !

 

Leave you 2 to it.

[Guest willowb]

Am I ok to do this at this stage also ... I just sent my AQ a week ago?

Hummmm I dunno actually, I'll ask a mod to check that everything I am telling you is ok.....just to be safe!

 

I know even though I may get this removed that they'll prob start this all over again later as I won't be able to pay off the whole debt

After you have settled what you can then you can negotiate a repayment plan and if you can manage it then meet their minimum monthly payment as per their T&Cs thus avoiding another default. If you cannot do this then try choccies and flowers!!!! lol I dunno, I guess be reasonable and polite and they may withold another notice but if not then you will have to wait until the debt has been paid before you can start to try and get it removed again.

I'm taking them to court & they're passing it to a DCA

I wouldn't worry about who actually has the debt on their system right now, it's who held the debt origionally that you should be directing everything to. When I had my claim against RBS, the debt was with Capquest (who sent demands and stuff) but I never corresponded with them, always directly with RBS. I don't see why it should be any different here....unless someone can correct me on that?

Also if they can't come up with a copy agreement I can presumably dispute the whole debt!?

Yeah! lol there is that too:p ....I suppose after this you could pursue that unless you really wanted to take the bull by it's horns and include their non-compliance with your CCA request in your amended POCs??? I don't know, when did you request a copy?

 

I'm interested in this avenue myself with an Abbey loan that we have had and have been paying off since year dot.

 

Bill-K.....(see how scared I am of her these days !! )

 

what a very wise gorilla you are!

 

 

We'll work this out Chez!

 

here's the N244 form for starters....

 

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_0400.pdf

 

Wxxxx

[chezt]

. Hubby n I also have a bottle of red waiting to be supped & he wants to watch the 'new' Godzilla film on sky!

 

Hey I got my wires crossed ... it's the new King Kong film NOT godzilla .... Bill I hope ur worth watchin mate ... we're an huor in n there's not even a sniff of an ape yet ... (That's wot hubby just said anyway!)

[bill-k]

Take it from me Chez - he's not all he's cracked up to be. Big old galoot can't even catch a plane !!

[chezt]

Just thought I'd mention no reply from Littlewoods yet to the CCA request for a copy of my agreement (I posted the letter 3rd Jan & they signed for it on the 4th!) and they have to reply within 12 working days which is Friday 19th. If they don't reply then they have 30 working days (to 2nd Feb) & if they still don't send a copy then the debt is unenforceable - spose that's when the fun starts! (sure that's the right way round with workin/non workin days!)

 

Off to grab summat to eat then gonna work on the draft letter suggested by willow last night

 

Take it from me Chez - he's not all he's cracked up to be. Big old galoot can't even catch a plane !!

 

Hey Bill ... I was quite impressed with your acting ... hubby says' 'boy he can certainly scrap that Kong!' Was an ok film I spose!

[Guest willowb]

Chezt, I asked a mod to check over what I was advising you and I noticed that she was reading your thread last night. She hasn't posted so I presume it's all ok, I've not heard anything different.

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Chezt, I asked a mod to check over what I was advising you and I noticed that she was reading your thread last night. She hasn't posted so I presume it's all ok, I've not heard anything different.

 

Wxxx

 

Oh ok honey ... praps we can get her to have another look before I post me letters then eh!

[chezt]

Aaarrgghhhh! Willow I'm strugglin with the wording of this ( I think it's mainly 'cos I don't fully understand the process of this yet .... I'm reading loads I promise it's just all the different sections folk are quoting for different circumstances etc!) ... can I use the statutory notice as a starting template of sorts?? .... ie ....

 

Data Subject: chezt

 

Address: here where I live

 

Account No: xxx

 

I am in receipt of a letter from Debt Managers Limited regarding the above account requesting payment and threatening court action. As you are well aware the above account is in dispute and you have received correspondence from myself regarding this. You are also aware that I have issued proceedings against you in the county courts (claim no xxxx) and I am currently awaiting a hearing date for this.

 

Therefore I suggest that you take no further action in relation to this and that you advise Debt Managers Limited of the situation also. Also, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within twenty one days of the receipt by you of this Notice, or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of alleged defaults or contractual breaches or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this Notice would violate both the Principles and Data Subject’s rights of The Data Protection Act 1998. Failure to do so will be a breach under the Data Protection Act 1998 Section 14 (1), to do so would be both unwarranted and unlawful. ((?????))

 

If you fail to comply and respond to my request, I shall make the judge aware of the above breach and ask that an order is made to remove the default on the grounds detailed above. I shall be forwarding a copy of the correspondence from Debt Managers limited along with a copy of this letter to the courts also.

 

Signed

 

 

OH DEAR! That's propa pants innit!!?? Sorry it's late ... I'm tired ... I think I need to sleep on this one ... Willow ... help cos I've made a right ole pigs ear of this one aint I?! I sorta know what I wanna say but can't find the right way of goin about it! :-|

 

Do u still think I oughta send a letter to DM ltd too BTW?

[chezt]

Draft letter to DM Limited ...

Debt Managers Limited

PO Box 168

4 Jamaica Street

Edinburgh

EH3 6UP

15th January 2007

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 5th January 207 which I received on Saturday 12th January 2007.

 

I am not prepared to communicate with you regarding this account as the debt is in dispute with your client. You should also be aware I have issued proceedings against your client in the County Courts and that I have also requested a copy of the credit agreement which the account operates which they are yet to supply.

You are advised that if you continue to harass me I will consider it to be criminal conduct and I will report you to the authorities.

I trust this is satisfactory and I will hear no more from you regarding this.

Yours faithfully

 

chezt

[Guest willowb]

Data Subject: chezt

 

Address: here where I live

 

Account No: xxx

 

I am in receipt of a letter from Debt Managers Limited regarding the above account requesting payment and threatening court action. As you are well aware the above account is in dispute and you have received correspondence from myself regarding this. You are also aware that I have issued proceedings against you in the county courts (claim no xxxx) and I am currently awaiting a hearing date for this.

 

(Therefore I suggest that you take no further action in relation to this and) If you wish to take further action then I suggest that you issue a counter-claim. Any correspondance thus far will be brought to the attention of the Judge on the day of the hearing and will be forwarded to the Court hereafter. (that you) Please advise Debt Managers Limited of the situation (also).

 

 

(Also, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within twenty one days of the receipt by you of this Notice, or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of alleged defaults or contractual breaches or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this Notice would violate both the Principles and Data Subject’s rights of The Data Protection Act 1998. Failure to do so will be a breach under the Data Protection Act 1998 Section 14 (1), to do so would be both unwarranted and unlawful. ((?????))

 

Chezt a stat notice is not applicable here as the contract is still active and there is a legitimate debt in place....ok? What we need to do is focus on section 14.

 

(If you fail to comply and respond to my request, I shall make the judge aware of the above breach and ask that an order is made to remove the default on the grounds detailed above. I shall be forwarding a copy of the correspondence from Debt Managers limited along with a copy of this letter to the courts also.)*Not needed*

 

Signed

 

 

OH DEAR! That's propa pants innit!!?? Sorry it's late ... I'm tired ... I think I need to sleep on this one ... Willow ... help cos I've made a right ole pigs ear of this one aint I?! I sorta know what I wanna say but can't find the right way of goin about it! :-|

 

Don't worry hun, the first bit was fine! I just think that you are 'getting your head around' it

 

Do u still think I oughta send a letter to DM ltd too BTW?

 

I think that you should only be responding to the person who intitally held the debt and who you are taking to Court...LW....wether they share the info with the DCA is up to them.....you have asked them to be informed so I think that's enough....if you want to send them anything, keep it short and succint such as......

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 5th January 207 which I received on Saturday 12th January 2007.

 

I am not prepared to communicate with you regarding this account as the debt is in dispute with your client. You should also be aware I have issued proceedings against your client in the County Courts. (and that I have also requested a copy of the credit agreement which the account operates which they are yet to supply). *not needed*.....you don't want to give them an inch!

 

Please be aware that communication will be presented to the Judge at the hearing and copies will be sent to the Court hereafter.

 

To reiterate, any further correspondance regarding this claim will be between the Defendant (your client) and myself.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

chezt

 

Ok, I'll copy and paste what you have done and add the law bit to it. I'll post it here later and see what you think....is this ok?

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

Dear....

 

I am in receipt of a letter from Debt Managers Limited regarding the above account requesting payment and threatening court action. As you are well aware the above account is in dispute and you have received correspondence from myself regarding this. You are also aware that I have issued proceedings against you in the county courts (claim no xxxx) and I am currently awaiting a hearing date for this

 

Considering the fact that the balance-due includes unlawful charges and the minimum monthly repayment figure calculated reflects this inaccurate balance, I would draw you attention to Section 14 (1) of the Data Protection Act, where it states....'If a court is satisfied on the application of a data subject that personal data of which the applicant is the subject are inaccurate, the court may order the data controller to rectify, block, erase or destroy those data and any other personal data in respect of which he is the data controller and which contain an expression of opinion which appears to the court to be based on the inaccurate data.'

 

I intend to point out to the Judge that if a somewhat decreased monthly payment was required by LW then at that time this payment may well have been met by myself and therefore LW's terms and conditions upheld and a default marker unwarranted.

 

If LW does not adhere to my request to remove the default marker from my credit file then I will seek an order from the Court under Section 14 (1) of The Data Protection Act 1998, as above, at the time of the hearing regarding the unlawful charges placed on the account. I will also draw the Judges attention to the fact that LW applied the default marker whilst the account was in dispute, besides being unethical it also left me without the opportunity to include it in my origional particulars of claim. All supporting correspondance and evidence will be provided for the Judge's review.

 

Yours......

 

Chezt

What do you think?

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

Hi chezt,

 

Zoot has looked through and has told me that everything looks fine but just to remind you that you should amend your POCs (N244 form as posted earlier) now and add the default removal to your claim as it will be more trouble and more costly to do it after....ok?

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Willow - I've just got in from work n only managed a quick read of your help n I have to dash out again shortly (my lil muffin has some injections this afternoon !)

 

Can I say Thank You ... I Love You!!! I tried to click you again but it won't let me (I will remember n keep tryin when I've spread meself around a bit I promise!)

 

It all looks fab ... So basically I started off n ended ok (the bits I composed myself) but the middle was 'iffy' where I used the other letter as almost a template!? TBH this was the bit I was most unsure of ... sometimes you just need to know the right words/phrases don't you! Thanks again ... ur wonderfull ... thanks for getting your moddie mate to pass a beady eye too ... I'm forever thankfull!

 

Am I right in thinking the amendment cost (£35??) is non-claimable with court costs?

[chezt]

I think that you should only be responding to the person who intitally held the debt and who you are taking to Court...LW....wether they share the info with the DCA is up to them.....you have asked them to be informed so I think that's enough....if you want to send them anything, keep it short and succint such as......

 

I'm gonna send the letter (shortened version) to DM Ltd as I would feel better covering myself from all angles IYKWIM?

 

Thanks again

[Guest willowb]

Ok....good! and....you're welcome:)

 

As for the £35 squid, it is non-claimable unfortunately BUT if this case did go to court then there's nothing stopping you from asking the Judge, it was their fault afterall for defaulting you after you filed a claim.

 

It's worth it although you must try and get them not to default you again after the claim is settled. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it hey?!

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Willow ... just a quick point about the letter (I know I'm a pain in your butt!!) The bit that states ... 'I intend to point out to the Judge that if a somewhat decreased monthly payment was required by Littlewoods then at that time this payment may well have been met by myself and therefore your terms and conditions upheld and a default marker unwarranted.'

The only problem with this is that I was already paying agreed reduced monthly payments (& a lot of the charges I'm claiming back are arrangement fees) so this statement isn't strictly true as I couldn't afford the payment as it was. The claim is only for about £320 (+ 8% stat int) on a balance of £1600 so it won't go that far to reducing it

will it still be ok to use the wording on the letter in this case?

[Guest willowb]

I would keep it in as it is, £320 of £1600 is still about 20%. So, if your origional minimun payment was £25 a month, if it wasn't for the charges it would have been £20......when you look at it like that then I think it's worth keeping the argument in.

 

It's just my opinion though hun you do what you feel best.

 

Wxxx