Forthcoming ESA Tribunal: newly diagnosed with autism

[jillymill]

I'm hoping some of you may be able to give me advice. I have my ESA tribunal coming up in a few weeks and I am dreading it. I feel I will fail to express the real problems I have which have rendered me incapable of working for most of my life (I am now 44) convincingly because:

A) I have autism spectrum disorder, so make mistakes with communicating (even my CAB rep said I'd talk gibberish in the tribunal, which upset me greatly);

B) I have only just been diagnosed with being 'somewhere' on the autism spectrum, so I've not had time to fully understand the implications of how this has impacted my life in relation to work and, well, everything. It was also only very recently that I realised my mother had been emotionally abusing me for my whole life. I have since cut her out and feel much better for it. Both these things have left me vulnerable to bullying and being ''malevolently'' lead to say things that are against my best interests.

When I claimed ESA, the reasons I gave for not being able to work were anxiety and depression. I feel though that my ASD diagnosis should be relevant to helping me communicate my problems. I am not lazy. For example, when I went to uni, aged 30, I spent 60+ hours a week on my studies and loved it. I got firsts for most things and loved being able to hold my head up high and say, 'I am a student.' For once I was fitting into society. But for most of the rest of my life I have lived in poverty because I couldn't cope with working. I have fled from one job; been sacked from at least one other; but mainly just scraped by avoiding work and, as I said, living in poverty as a result, because I didn't feel any one would respect the reasons I had for avoiding work.

These reasons are, as far as I can define them:

1) Not being able to cope with being told what to do

2) Not being able to cope with being 'trapped' into being there at specific times. I couldn't even cope with being 'trapped' in the bathroom for our baby daughter's bath time, though I love her very much. Very, very fortunately my partner, her father, is absolutely brilliant with her and bath time is now their special time.

3) Not being able to cope with not being allowed unscheduled breaks

4) Not being able to cope with mornings. I function very badly for several hours after I wake up

5) Not being able to cope with interacting with colleagues and customers/anxiety over what they are thinking. Anxiety that I've acted/spoken weirdly

6) Being bullied

7) Not being able to engage with the tasks I am given

8) Not being able to cope with phone calls

9) Being horribly distracted by all kinds of things: noises/bright lights/uncomfortable clothing, etc

I expect this list could be extended, but, as I said, I am only just starting to be able to define my reasons and take my problems seriously. I have a fear that responses I get from this will say things like: pull yourself together. They don't owe you a living. Such and such you said isn't a REAL problem. Blah blah blah. My hope is that I will get supportive, informative and empathic answers that will help me be better prepared for the tribunal.

I'm also incidentally applying for PIP, which is going to be another terrifying autopsy of my abilities!

[Planta genista]

Hi

 

I don't know what help you have received if any so far for your condition, but if you've not done so already, please contact the NAS and ask them for guidance and any other help they can give.

 

Your traits that you mention are very common for people with and autistic spectrum disorder and should be taken into consideration as definable impairments.

 

Do you have a GP who is supportive? If not, I would also recommend finding if there is a lead Mental Health GP you can register with who will be supportive in writing letters to give a formal confirmation of the impairments you suffer on a daily and continual basis.

 

The key thing is that you have a disability which is recognised now under the Disability Discrimination at Work Act - but the NAS will also be able to give you more help and information about your rights and what you can insist on.

[abc123def]

Many people with significant autistic symptoms work well and happily in the right job and with the right support if it is needed. I'd agree that contacting the National Autistic Society would be a good start. Their helpline numbers are here.

 

The fact that you studied so successfully shows you are capable, you just need the right support and advice now.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

In case it helps later, here's a link to the forum stikky about tribunals. It's based on my experience and has a template letter that you can use to argue your case in writing rather than having to explain it all on the day.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information%285-Viewing%29-nbsp

 

You don't say when you were diagnosed with autism, I don't think, but you need to remember that the tribunal will consider your state of health at the time of your claim, not how you are now if the diagnosis is recent.

 

My best, HB

[**Margaret**]

Deleted.

Edited November 20, 2013 by **Margaret**

[jillymill]

Hi,

 

Margaret: I've not already asked for advice as Jillypig1.

 

I'm getting quite lost in these threads (!) as I've also posted on the NAS forum (someone from there diected me here)

 

HB: I was diagnosed with autism on 31st October, but it is a condition I have always had. It is a developmental disorder. So it can not be a new symptom. Will the Tribunal treat it as a new symptom?

 

The appeal letter template may be a little late as I sent one back in the spring, before my diagnosis.

[tickle cough]

I live in supported living and know many people who are on the milder end of the spectrum with no other diagnosis who are entitled to disability benefits, the thing is you need the right support networks to show that actually you need support from outside agencies, it works in your favour then fighting it alone. Is there a ASD or Vulnerable adults department at your local social services you could utilise? Ring up and ask for a referral....

[jillymill]

I am a bit stuck - maybe - at the moment re social services. My psychiatrist told me that, because of the Autism Act of 2010, people with ASD have to be supported and that it my region, Devon, this is done by him referring people with ASD to social services to have their needs assessed. This sounded great, but when I saw him last week, 2 weeks after my diagnosis, he told me that social services have sent all the 10 cases he'd referred to him straight back and that I should get my GP to chase it up. I saw her the next day, but she said she couldn't do this until she'd received my diagnosis from my psychiatrist, which could take another week. In the meantime, I have no official documentation of my condition and no support from social services. Do you think it would be worth my phoning them? I'm not sure who I should contact. We have an Autism Spectrum Disorder Project Board.

[tickle cough]

I would wait until you have received all your documentation then pursue social services input, if you haven't received anything chase it up at your GPs. They'll have the documents on there computer.

 

For myself somebody rang social services because I wasn't coping very well at the time and they had a duty of care to assess me, so they came to my house and seen that I was being exploited financially and wasn't coping with the housework, things were getting on top of me. Do you have anybody to ring SS on your behalf?

[jillymill]

I have been getting some help from the local mental health liasion worker. Perhaps she could help me with getting support social services? If I leave it too long to get help from Social services, it will be too late for my tribunal, which is in 3 weeks. Perhaps I could phone my psychiatrist's receptionist tomorrow to ask if I can pick up a copy of the report. He had told me he'd have it ready for me last Thursday for me to pick up and pass on to my GP, but when I went there he was on reception and told me he'd sent it to my GP instead. Quite frustrating.

[**Margaret**]

:jillymill:

 

I've deleted #5.

 

Your recent diagnosis of autism (cos it's a developmental disorder and can't be a new condition) will be relevant to your tribunal hearing if it's the cause of inability to perform the cognitive descriptors that are listed on pages 22 - 25 and 27 - 28 of the ESA214 booklet at;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa214-a-guide-to-employment-and-support-allowance-the-work-capability-assessment

 

You say you've already sent an appeal letter. An initial appeal via letter or GL24 to Jobcentreplus? Or a full written response, that you've sent to the Tribunals Service, to the 'bundle' of gobbledegook from Jobcentreplus?

 

Did you have a face to face assessment at Atos? Your evidence to the tribunal panel needs to answer the inaccuracies of an ESA85/85A report and explain why you believe you're entitled to an award of employment n support allowance. Along the lines of; cos of autism I can't make friends with the other mums at my toddler's playgroup.

 

And when your doctor gets the documentation, ask for copies to include with your evidence for the tribunal hearing. Along with anything you can get from the mental health worker or social services.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[jillymill]

Thank you Margaret.

 

This is useful to take to my (maybe rather narrow-focused) CAB rep on Friday afternoon. I did't have my diagnosis when I last saw him, but he has, I think, listed 14 (coping with change); 16 (coping with social engagement); and 17 (appropriate behaviour (because I might flee the work space)).

 

The appeal letters sent were a very brief one from me, at the advice of the CAB, to get something in on time as there was a wait until I could see an advisor. I just wrote that the nurse who saw me at the ATOS assessment (where I scored zero points) had admitted that she knew nothing about my condition (I also have an autoimmune condition called Grave's disease, and chronic fatigue). The CAB rep I saw then sent a more detailed appeal letter to the Tribunals Service. I have a copy of it in my file.

[Nystagmite]

I think I've replied to your thread on the NAS forums.

 

Anyway:

Do you have any evidence of your difficulties and how they relate to the descriptors? You said that you were diagnosed with Autism on October 31st. Were you seeing your GP / the person who diagnosed you at the time of your ESA assessment? Asking because if you have evidence of your difficulties but not diagnosis going back to the date of assessment, that should help.

 

Personally, I have found NAS to be rubbish on a few issues (including benefits) I've needed help with.

[jillymill]

Hi, yes I think you replied on the NAS thread too. Thank you. I'll go back to that one later. Home alone with my little girl right now... Yes, NAS don't seem to be too helpful re benefits advice.

 

My current GP wrote a supporting letter for my ESA appeal before my diagnosis which talked of my panic attacks. I didn't see my psychiatrist first time until Sept this year. I phoned up earlier and have arranged to pick up a copy of my report this afternoon (hooray). I'm thinking, I could probably request a supporting letter from him also - the receptionist I spoke to on the phone sounded quite accommodating. I'm not sure though if it would be too late to submit this as new evidence? I can ask my CAB rep tomorrow. Does anyone know if social service would be likely to help with my tribunal at this short notice, if I can get hold of them?

[dpick]

Hi I can only go by a nephew who has autism and knowing how upset he gets when he is unable to get someone to understand what he is trying to put across to them I believe that It would be of help to you to have someone represent you at the tribunal, especially if that person is used to your manner in the same way that our family can understand my nephew where stranger cannot.

 

dpick

[jillymill]

Yes, that would be ideal. I was quite thrown when my CAB rep said I'd just speak gibberish at the tribunal. I'm not stupid, and have a good vocabulary, but autism makes me socially blind - or that's how I see it. Not sure though if a social worker would be able to get to know me in time, but I will chase it up this afternoon, once my daughter's at nursery.

[Nystagmite]

There's criteria within ESA relating to interacting with people (covers both strange and familiar people) and routine.

 

Unfortunately, there's nothing at all about the sensory issues you describe, which I also have.