HFC/Restons CCJ & CO - Selling property. Heeeeeeelp

[hitchy1]

 

I have a charging order on my property for a debt of £19k to HFC bank and administered by Restons.

 

This was about 18 months ago and long before i became aware of this site.

 

My agreed payments on a debt management plan had always been maintained.

 

I never requested any proof of the debt or ownership etc when in court.

 

I informed judge that payment had always been maintained and that the property was in negative equity but the order was granted.

 

Do i have a right to now challenge this order and get copies of any paperwork that may exist to assist in this?

 

How would i progress?

[hitchy1]

Approximately 12 months ago and long before i heard of these forums,

i was hit with a charging order by Restons solicitors for a HFC loan.

 

Due to being naive i never once questioned the legal right to take action against me

and instead argued that i had always maintained payments on a debt management plan.

 

Charging order was granted and i now make a monthly payment to Restons.

 

I don't have any paperwork myself, even the paperwork from the court.

 

Is there any way or any point that i can challenge the validity of this and what would be my first steps?

[I've got no money]

You would need to apply to set the Judgment aside.

 

As a starting point can you tell us what the claim was about and how much it was for?

[hitchy1]

It was a loan for £21k.

 

When i got into financial difficulty i arranged a payment via a debt management company (cccs)

 

They were ok with payment but wanted the charging order to secure the money against the property.

 

I never challenged or asked to see any documentation

 

i just assumed everything was above board, and it may well be.

 

Payment each month is direct to Restons for £31.

[I've got no money]

OK

- you need to get some documents together

- the claim form

- and any docs that came with that

- the court should be able to give you a copy

- contact Restons and

do a CCA request for the agreement and

copy statements

- you also ought to do a Data Protection Act Subject Access request

- don't forget the fee in both cases

- that'll get all the documents.

 

When you've got the documents you can post them on here and we'll have a look and see what we think

[hitchy1]

Thanks, i will get it sent to Restons today. Presumably they will have court docs and would have to provide a copy under the SAR?

[hitchy1]

Just got this back from Restons with my £1 returned. Nothing on the SAR yet.

 

Please Reply To: Miss L Tipping Direct Line 01925 661654

Email lt@restons.co.uk

Our reference:

Monday May 18, 2009

Dear Sir

Re: HFC Bank Limited v. Yourself HFC Personal Loan

 

Thank you for your letter dated 11 May 2009 and your request for copy documents pursuant to Sections 77/78 CCA 1974.

 

Unfortunately your request is invalid.

 

Sections 77/78 only afford you the option to request copy documents up to the point where the account is terminated,

which this was before the matter was transferred to us for collection.

 

Equally Sections 175 and 189 have no application. Your fee is returned.

 

You* faithfully,



ipping, Litigation Executive s Solicitors Limited

[supasnooper]

Try contacting CCCS, they should have a copy of the court paperwork.

 

Failing that, write to Northampton County Court asking them for the document details of the CCJ case.

 

To get documents of your Credit Card Agreement, Default Notice etc you will need to send a Subject Access Request to the Original Creditor (HFC) at a cost of £10.00.

[r&b]

if u have a CCJ as i understand it,

that now takes precedence as the 'agreement'

and they are not bound to provide u with a CA.

 

however your SAR is not bound by this so will produce what u require.

that being the case keep on top of the timeframes

and send them a reminder on the dot should they not respond within the timeframe.

 

whilst ur waiting it might be an idea (IF the court was other than northampton otherwise dont bother)

to write to the court in question and request a copy of the claim docs

(enclose £5 which covers 10 sheets ask them to use both sides if it runs to more)

as if it wasnt in the northampton bulk ctr they shud have put docs with the POC at the point of claim.

 

added: sry snoops was writing when u posted

Edited May 21, 2009 by r&b
added

[hitchy1]

I have found the actual court order now.

 

Should i write to the court for details of the claim?

ie are you saying i need to see what documents they produced in court?

[supasnooper]

Yes, contact the court for the details of the claim.

 

And yes, you'll now need to obtain the creditor documents they used which can be obtained through the Subject Access Request

[hitchy1]

Just received the following letter from Restons to my SAR.

They cashed the £10.

Looks like they got a charging order with no paperwork.

i could kick myself.

 

Any suggestions on how to progress please?

 

Dear Sir

 

Re: Subject Access Request

 

Thank you for subject access request dated 11 May 2009.

 

We will respond to your request in like numbered paragraphs:-

1 We only hold a copy of generic terms and conditions for the type of account opened by you in 2003.

A copy is herewith.

 

2 This application is not appropriate.

Our understanding is that this application is used to request information regarding credit scoring and decisioning.

 

3 None are held by us.

 

4 None are held by us.

 

5 No collection charge is added to this account.

 

6 All fees and costs have been advised to you throughout the proceedings

and relate only to fixed fees and costs allowed by the Court,

and which appear on relevant Court Orders/Judgments.

 

7 N/A.

 

8 N/A.

 

9 We are not the data controllers thereof and do not have this information.

 

10. We are not the data controllers thereof and do not have this information.

 

Yours faithfully,

 



Mr N Coe, Managing Director pp Reston's Solicitors Limited

 

Could you advise what you think about response from Restons and how i should proceed please?

 

I get the impression that little or no paperwork got them the charging order and i was too naive to understand my rights.

 

Thanks

 

Sorry to hassle people but im desperate for advice, is this response to my SAR from Restons legal.

 

[supasnooper]

The Subject access Request should have been sent to HFC.

 

Unfortunately, it will cost another £10.00 to do this.

 

BTW, what Restons have sent is entirely correct.

[hitchy1]

OK, thanks for that. I will get another tenner off tomorrow.

 

Are Restons within their rights to cash the £10 without sending me anything?

[supasnooper]

Restons have complied with the Data Protection Act and sent you what details they hold about you.

 

And for their compliance, they can take the £10.00 payment.

 

Make sure you chase HFC hard.........they can be awkward with Subject Access requests.

[hitchy1]

Just received letter below from HFC regarding the SAR. Do i need to comply with this in order to get the details?

 

 

HFC

 

BANK

Request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998

The Data Protection Act 1998 gives you the right to ask us what information we hold about you. We are allowed to ask you for a fee, currently £10.00 and payable to 'HFC Bank Ltd', to contribute to our costs in retrieving this information. To enable us to locate this information as quickly as possible, please provide as much information as you can in answer to the questions below. I confirm that your details will be forwarded to you within 40 days from receipt of your completed form.

The completed form should be sent to:

Name:

Address:

Postcode:

Subject Access Request Team PO Box 3607 Birmingham Bl 2XJ

 

Date of Birth:

Previous addresses over the last five years if different from above. (Please include postcodes) Continue on a separate sheet, if necessary.

Documentation enclosed: Driving Licence YES/NO Passport YES/NO

If possible, give the following details for each account you have held with HFC Bank.

Type of account: current savings, loan etc

Account number

Date account opened

Branch/retailer where account was opened

 

Please highlight which account(s) you would like information regarding.

Please indicate whether you have made telephone contact within the last 30 days and require a

transcript of any conversation. YES/NO

(Please note not all calls are recorded and we only retain records for 30 days)

Please sign here:

Date:

 

[supasnooper]

As long as you have enclosed the £10.00 fee when you initially sent the SAR then tell them to get cracking on as they have 40 days from when they originally receieved the request, not from when they think they can.

 

Send them this letter -

 

 

 

Your name

Your Address

Your Town

Your County

Your Postcode

Date 2009

The Company Secretary

The Creditor

Creditors address

Creditors Town

Creditors county

Creditors postcode

Section 7(1) – Data Protection Act 1998

Account: XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

 

The contents of your letter of XXth xxxx 2009 are noted.

Under the above Act, you have 40 days for FULL compliance with my request once received.

Your above letter confirms the receipt of my request.

The £10.00 fee was enclosed with my initial request.

 

I will remind you as to what documents I expect.

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to this account, including but not limited to:

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the account.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

 

3. Where there has been any event in my accounts history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

13. A True copy of the consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974 for the account.

14. Any Other information relating to this account.

I look forward to your diligence in dealing with matter and not proceed to be obstructive with a perfectly legitimate request.

If you do not comply within the 40 day timescale, I shall report you to the Information Commissioners Office, and if necessary, seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

Print your name here

Do NOT sign, Send by recorded delivery

[hitchy1]

Thanks for the assistance. letter will be in the post tomorrow.

[hitchy1]

Sent them the letter as advised and got this back today.

Should i just comply, as i do want to see what they have in order to challenge the charging order?

 

HFC

BANK PO Box 3607, Birmingham Bl 2XJ

 

Our Ref: SAR/

22 June 2009

Dear Mr

Re: Request for Information - Account number

Thank you for your reply to our letter dated 12 June 2009.

As advised in our previous letter we have received your cheque for £10.00, however, to enable us to process your request we do need proof of identity and proof of your address.

As indicated on the form attached with our previous letter suitable proof is copy of your passport or driving licence, you may also provide a utility bill dated within the last 3 months, valid

Yours sincerely

 

[yourturntopay]

I had this and tbh you are better off sending the info, otherwise they will just keep sending the same letter to you. if you need the info quickly, then it's best to send what they want.

[supasnooper]

Whilst what you say is true, you are just letting HFC get away with this.

There is no reason for them to procrastinate.

 

Here's what the Information Commissioners Office have to say about it(para 2) -

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/checklist_for_handling_requests_for_personal_information.pdf

 

Hit them with a court summons for non-compliance and costs - it usually sharpens them up.

[hitchy1]

I think you are right, i will send them a copy of the document above and warn them of the consequence should they fail.

[herbie171]

I applied to have my charging order set aside, got a letter from HFC banks Solicitors saying the would not be in Court and had informed the court of a notice of discontinuance

[sillygirl1]

Inform HFC that you are now using the County Court Procedures to request this information as it has been subject to a court order - write to the court and ask them for any documentation which may have been supplied.

 

If I were you I would now go straight for a set aside of the original order based on the following grounds.

 

1. You did not receive any original documentation backing up the claim and still have not received any documentation (add the letters to your claim which have been received following your data requests)

2. The company have failed to supply you with information and are continuing to ask for confirmation details leading you to belive they may not have the right to claim monies from you.

3. At the time of the original order you were not made aware of any rights you had in challengeing the order.

 

Somebody else might have a better way of wording the claim...

[hitchy1]

How do you commence the process and on what grounds?

Up to now all my contact has been with restons who judging from their letters didnt have any paperwork in the first place.

 

Would it not be better to wait until they comply or fail to comply with the SAR.

Presumably then i will know if they have any documentation.

Also do i issue court papers to Restons or to HFC?

 

thanks