lowells/carter - Old Barclaycard debt

[womble005]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for some advice in regard to a very old Barclaycard account which my husband is being chased for.

 

We sent a "prove it" letter to Bryan Carter solicitors, and have now received a letter from Fredrickson stating that if full payment is not received within 48hrs, Fredrickson will recommend that Lowell commence legal proceedings.

 

Am I right in thinking we should now sent a CCA request to Lowell?

[ims21]

When you say "very old", when was the last payment made and/or when was the debt last acknowledged in writing?

[womble005]

Hi,

 

the debt has never been acknowledged in writing. However, my husband was contacted by one of the former DCAs (Scotcall) at the beginning of this year, whereupon he panicked and made a payment of £100, without really knowing what he was doing.

 

My husband lost his job seven years ago, which was when this account first fell into default. I believe the account was originally opened around 2001.

[mikeymack2002]

Even though you have made a payment after it may have been statute barred there is nothing saying you have to continue after this payment, I would send off a CCA to the DCA making the back of it for CCA request only, its for £1-00 and they have 12+2 days to reply with it. They may not of been allowed to demand the money in the first place if it was Statute barred, then come back to this thread and update us please thx

 

MM

[womble005]

Thank you, mikeymack2002. I am assuming I need to send the CCA request to Lowell, and not Fredrickson? I was going to copy it to Fredrickson anyway, and send both letters by registered post.

[ims21]

Send the CCA to whoever is currently asking for money.

 

Also do some investigating to see if there was a clear period of six years without payment (5 if you are in Scotland).

[womble005]

Thanks, ims21, we'll do the research. I'll be sending off the CCA request to Fredrickson tomorrow and will let you know how we get on.

[mikeymack2002]

Don't forget to get proof of posting and keep it to prove at a later day you actually sent it

 

MM

[JibTeenuc]

Hi Womble,

 

In reply to your enquiry on my own thread, I have to say that I am not the best of folk to seek advice from as I've been arguing this case with BC for a number of years now and am no further forward.

 

We appear to have reached an impasse in that all that happens is that my alleged debt is repeatedly passed from one DCA to another and one legal firm to another. At each stage I have repeated my request for a genuine copy of a signed agreement, at which stage it goes quiet for a couple of weeks or so, before another collector makes contact.

 

I am in the fortunate??? (there must be a better description) position of not really caring that much as, approaching 60 and incapacitated through having suffered a number of strokes, so with no real prospect of suitably gainful employment, they are on a hiding to nothing in any case.

 

If they want to take me to court all that would result is my feeling embarrassed for a few minutes (assuming I lost the case and that I could even be bothered to turn up for the hearing).

 

You're in a good place, here though, to receive advice I believe.

 

The only advice I would offer (and wholly unqualified, at that) is that

 

1) If you truly believe you can fight this and that they have no signed "agreement", why are you paying them anything at all, let alone £100 lump sums? That could be construed as an acknowledgement of the debt. To heck with them. Pay them nothing that you don't have to (they'd not pay you - or even the government coffers, for that matter - a single penny they didn't have to).

 

2) Don't fear lawyers just because they are "lawyers" (I've met many, many over the years and almost without exception they are little more than bought-education, public-school, old-school-tie, exceptionally lazy individuals and almost without exception as thick as a brick, to boot).

 

Stay strong. You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

Good luck and let us all know how you get on.

 

Best wishes.

 

Jib T

Edited October 8, 2013 by JibTeenuc
Needed editing

[mikeymack2002]

Hi Womble,

 

In reply to your enquiry on my own thread, I have to say that I am not the best of folk to seek advice from as I've been arguing this case with BC for a number of years now and am no further forward.

 

We appear to have reached an impasse in that all that happens is that my alleged debt is repeatedly passed from one DCA to another and one legal firm to another. At each stage I have repeated my request for a genuine copy of a signed agreement, at which stage it goes quiet for a couple of weeks or so, before another collector makes contact.

 

I am in the fortunate??? (there must be a better description) position of not really caring that much as, approaching 60 and incapacitated through having suffered a number of strokes, so with no real prospect of suitably gainful employment, they are on a hiding to nothing in any case.

 

If they want to take me to court all that would result is my feeling embarrassed for a few minutes (assuming I lost the case and that I could even be bothered to turn up for the hearing).

 

You're in a good place, here though, to receive advice I believe.

 

The only advice I would offer (and wholly unqualified, at that) is that

 

1) If you truly believe you can fight this and that they have no signed "agreement", why are you paying them anything at all, let alone £100 lump sums? That could be construed as an acknowledgement of the debt. To heck with them. Pay them nothing that you don't have to (they'd not pay you - or even the government coffers, for that matter - a single penny they didn't have to).

 

2) Don't fear lawyers just because they are "lawyers" (I've met many, many over the years and almost without exception they are little more than bought-education, public-school, old-school-tie, exceptionally lazy individuals and almost without exception as thick as a brick, to boot).

 

Stay strong. You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

Good luck and let us all know how you get on.

 

Best wishes.

 

Jib T

 

Its always best to find out if you actually need to pay right now this is why its always the first port of call is the CCA request because no CCA no pay you are more likely to get cashcowed ie giving money away keep us in formed how its all going have you paid for a CCA request already? If so something stinks here

MM

[womble005]

Hi mikeymac2002 and JibTeenuc,

 

thank you both for your replies.

 

Firstly, no, we haven't yet paid for a CCA request, but I'm going to send the letter and a £1 postal order today. Would you be able to direct me to the correct template? I've found one, but not sure it's right, as it mentions the creditor should provide either the original agreement or a "reconstituted" agreement. I'm hazy on exactly what a reconstituted agreement is.

 

Secondly, my husband isn't as au fait with the laws surrounding consumer debt as I. I've been through the bankruptcy process when my business failed four years ago, and I managed to get lots of very good advice from the CAB, Insolvency Service and a good friend who had also suffered the same fate.

 

My husband simply panicked (as so many people do) when he heard the words "county court judgement" and "bailiff" and instantly made a payment which, he believed, would set things on the right path. Subsequently, of course, he heard nothing about the debt since making that £100 payment back in January of this year until receiving a letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors at the end of September.

 

JibTeenuc, I'm sorry to hear your health isn't good, and the stressful process of attempting to sort out your issue with Barclaycard can only be an added burden. It's interesting that you say nothing has really happened, though. I did wonder whether simply ignoring all the letters may be the course of action, but ultimately feel there must be some path of closure or recourse - and my husband isn't happy to continue without the matter now being resolved, so we'll solider on!

 

Have a good day, one and all, and thank you again for all your comments and very helpful advice.

[fletch70]

I agree that you need to find out exactly what your position is. A CCA request will of course find out if there is an enforceable agreement . If there is but you suspect there may have been a clear 6 years of no payments then you will need to SAR the creditors to find out, if the account has been sold on a few times you will need to to SAR each owner to create the statement trail.

 

As for ignoring lawyers because

(I've met many, many over the years and almost without exception they are little more than bought-education, public-school, old-school-tie, exceptionally lazy individuals and almost without exception as thick as a brick, to boot).

you would be playing a very dangerous game.

[womble005]

Thanks, fletch70. With six or seven DCAs to go through, that'll be no mean feat to create a statement trail, but if that's what it takes then so be it.

[fletch70]

Womble, it will not necessarily each DCA , just who owns it. So there is definitely BC and Lowell, did BC sell it to Lowell or to someone else first...

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi womble,

 

I would personally remove the reference to 'reconstituted' agreement from your letter. They will always send this if they don't have the agreement and it does meet their Section 77/78 obligations. I have always made it clear that I want a signed copy of the alleged credit agreement.

 

Was this always a Barclaycard, or was it another card first? They took over a number of cards, and some of those credit agreements are not enforceable.

 

DD

[womble005]

Thanks, Desperate Daniella. I will remove the reference to a reconstituted agreement.

 

Mu husband says it was always a Barclaycard account.

 

The paper trail I have managed to find thus far is:

 

June 2010 - NCO

July 2012 - Lowell Financial Limited

August 2012 - Red Debt Collection Services (a "trading style" of Lowell Portfolio Limited)

September 2012 - "Hamptons Legal" (though the registered office address at the bottom of this letter is given as Lowell Financial Ltd)

November 2012 - Lowell Financial Limited

Late November 2012 - Scotcall Limited (though, again, the registered office address is given as Lowell but this time as "Lowell Portfolio Limited")

August 2013 - Fredrickson International Limited

September 2013 - Bryan Carter Solicitors (stating payment should be made to Fredrickson)

October 2013 - Fredrickson International Limited (making no reference to the fact that we had sent Bryan Carter a "prove it" letter in September)

 

There may well have been other DCAs involved, but the ones mentioned above are the only paperwork I can find at this time.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi womble,

 

It would seem that Lowell acquired the account in July 2012 as everything since then has come from an organization connected with them.

 

Let's see what they send back.

 

DD

[womble005]

Hi all,

 

my husband has now received a letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors saying they have been instructed by Fredrickson to issue court proceedings on the 10th December if payment is not received in full by that date.

 

Fredrickson have done nothing to comply with his request for the original CCA, though, and we have had no response to the letter sent to them on the 17th October in that respect.

 

What's our next move?

 

Many thanks.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi womble,

 

For a start it should be Lowells as owner of the debt who would commence any proceedings. Freds are DCAs, not debt buyers.

 

Write back to Carter and tell him Frederickson has not complied with your CCA request so you have not been provided with a copy of the original alleged credit agreement and they have not even had the courtesy to acknowledge your letter of 17th October. (Enclose a copy of that letter.) Tell him in view of this you trust he will not be commencing any proceedings until the agreement has been produced because if they wish to enforce an agreement made before 2007 they will be fully aware that they need to provide a copy of the original agreement.

 

Then refer him to the Waksman Judgment in Carey v HSBC, paragraph 234 (4) which states that where an agreement has been varied by a creditor a copy of the original agreement must be provided.

 

Then say,

 

Perhaps you would be good enough to remind your client of their obligation under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR 2008) to let me know if they hold, or have ever held, a properly executed consumer credit agreement pertaining to myself. They are, of course, equally obliged to advise me if they hold no such agreement.

 

 

Send it recorded/signed for so you can check that they receive it.

 

Then also send a letter to Freds saying you are astonished that they have not responded to your letter of 17th October, and that you have heard from Carter that they intend to issue proceedings despite the fact that they have not provided a properly executed credit agreement for the account.

 

Then the paragraphs on Waksman and the CPUTR.

 

Again, send it recorded/signed for.

 

DD

[womble005]

Thanks, Daniella. I've written letters to both Fredrickson and Bryan Carter as you've advised (and copied them with the letter sent previously on the 17th October). I sent them yesterday by recorded delivery, so let's see what happens next!

[Desperate Daniella]

Well done, womble.

 

Let's see what they say.

[womble005]

UPDATE: received a letter this morning from Fredrickson stating that they never received my letter of the 17th October, which is not true, as I sent it by recorded delivery and have the receipt. They tell me I should write to Lowell to request the CCA.

 

Therefore, a letter will be going in the post today by recorded delivery to Lowell doing exactly that.

 

Fredrickson say they will not do anything else for 14 days…. so, let's hope Lowell are quick off the mark, eh?!

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't think they'll do anything further until they are instructed by Lowells. If you haven't heard from Lowells within 14 days write to Freds and let them know you are still waiting.

 

I'd also check online to see who signed for the 17th October letter to Freds and then you can tell them that 'Dopey Davey' or whoever must have mislaid it.

[womble005]

Thanks, Daniella,

 

I've checked the Royal Mail's "Track and Trace" service online and it simply tells me that the item was delivered on the 18th October, but it doesn't say who signed for it (how unhelpful)!

 

I will certainly do as you suggest and write to Freds after 14 days.

 

Thanks again.

[Desperate Daniella]

What a shame. They used to actually show a signature box, but no doubt that is now too much for them.