Probate and Proof of Ownership - A Big Messy Estate

[Aristoc]

Okay first of all CAGers, I respectfully thank you for your continued service to the community in respect of legal matters. I can remember sorting out one or two debts myself using help from these forums many years ago, and for that I am still grateful.

 

Okay, on to business...

 

This thread relates to recovery of a substantial (but small in legal terms, definitely sub 25,000 and likely sub 10,000) estate by the sole beneficiary of the estate in the absence of a will. It involves the legalities of proof of ownership, and in this thread I will seek advice as to how (in which court, under which procedure) I would go about establishing ownership of goods once a convincing body of evidence has been obtained that the goods were owned by the deceased.

 

Okay, some background.

 

The deceased is my father. Sadly, despite his intellectual and moral prowess early in life, my dad blossomed into a rather ruthlessly cruel, abusive alcoholic. Circa 2002 it was decided that rather than endure more turmoil it would be better for everyone if my father moved out and lived alone. He did so. We were in contact with him regularly, at first in person and later by phone, until around 6 to 8 months before his death. He was in regular (weekly) contact with his sister, and (at least) monthly contact with his mother. As such, a great deal of information has been obtained regarding my father, following his death, from family, relatives, etc etc.

 

My mother married my father over thirty years ago. They remained married until the date of his death. There was no legal separation. There was no will.

 

By rule of intestacy the sole beneficiary of the estate of my father is my mother, who is very much alive, well, and in a loving and close relationship with her three children; myself included.

 

On Monday/Tuesday my mother and I will fill application for probate naming (if possible) myself as administrator and representative of my mother, so that i can handle the affairs on her behalf. At any rate, she should and i imagine will be given grant of letter of administration herself as governed by rule of intestacy.

 

The Estate:

 

This is where things get messy. My father had a very good pension from his former 30 years employment in the chemicals industry. My mum remains sole beneficiary of this pension, but my father being the man he was, went and cashed most of his pension late last year: a sum approaching in total 75 thousand pounds.This was his right as holder of the policy.

 

The money was squandered on goods, drink (and perhaps drugs), holidays, and his two friends who lived very nearby (and still do). At the time of death there was only enough in his account to partly cover funeral expenses, a mere 8 months after the initial payment.

 

The majority of these funds are irrecoverable: my father, it seemed, used cash transactions always and so there is very little paper trail for goods. On the one occasion he did issue a cheque, it was to his friends mother for the value of over 12 thousand (presumably so that the friend could avoid having his benefits seized upon receipt of such a large sum).

 

However. It is known from family, and some records, as well letters and witness testimony of his neighbour, that he definitely acquired the following for himself:

 

1) A car. Registration is known and car is parked outside. HPI check shows car was registered on the very same day a large sum of money was withdrawn from my fathers account. It is believed my father is registered keeper. Next week i will be, hopefully, able to apply to the DVLA for former registered keeper. Hopefully i can then investigate that person to see if they can lend any credence to my father purchasing said car.

 

The car itself was insured in his friends name, as my father had a DUI ban and could not himself drive. Some weeks prior to his death he visited his mum and proclaimed to have bought himself a car so that his friend can drive him around and drive him on holiday with his caravan.

 

Currently the keys to this car are with his friend. He is still driving the vehicle and the vehicle is still there.

 

2) A caravan.

 

The caravan was again a known purchase by my father. We have letters from his flat, addressed to him as owner, from lawyers on behalf of the housing agency asking him to move it from the communal area. We have one confirming it was moved, and thanking him for it. The caravan is in storage, but we dont know where. Again, all information and keys are held with his 'friend'.

 

3) A jeep.

 

This is the least recoverable asset (if any are recoverable). A neighbour said that at one point my father bought a large jeep. No registration is known, but i'm sure once we have a grant of administration the DVLA will divulge this information, if any such vehicle was indeed registered in his name.

 

4) A big flat screen TV

 

This was missing from his apartment, as well as any and all documentation pertaining to ownership of goods that we know he owned, from various secondary sources such as afforementioned letters from lawyers re: caravan.

 

Now, I have contacted the police about this, and they are unwilling to help in such a civil matter. There is nothing to essentially prove ownership or whereabouts of any of these goods, and there is no evidence of theft. They were however very compassionate, and without giving away any information to me on the phone, I got the distinct impression that my father was indeed the registered keeper of the car. It was suggested i pursue it legally.

 

Now... I know that V5C is not proof of ownership. But if after investigation i can prove the transaction was from him for the car, and that the car was registered in his name, and that the car was paid for from the deceaseds account, then surely I will have a good chance of establishing ownership for purposes of probate in a court of law. At any rate, the 'alleged' cannot legally sell the vehicle without my fathers signature, and indeed if my father is the registered keeper then i can make myself registered keeper through the DVLA under grant of administration.

 

I am sure that the 'alleged' will try to say that the car was a 'gift', but given the shady background of the character (involved in drugs, another friend of my dads was murdered at some point over a drugs debt - my dad testified in court), then on the balance of probabilities, my mother will be awarded ownership?

 

Similarly for the caravan, if i can locate it.

 

Now my question to you, is how to proceed.

 

I had intended tomorrow on setting up a PO BOX (i dont want these people getting my address) and once i am made administrator, intending to investigate with the DVLA but also to contact the 'alleged' via post without prejudice to begin negotiations over ownership of the car, caravan, and recovery of any documents in my fathers name. I would be very factual and well artticulated in the statement of my case, state that i am acting as administrator of the estate, and negotiate a settlement so that 'without prejudice' can indeed be upheld in court.

 

I would then go after various caravan parks and investigate to see if any of them have storage accounts under my dads name.

 

is this the recommended way to go? I cannot approach this man in person, but i do believe that owing to his non legal relationship with the deceased, he has withheld documentation and goods belonging to my father. Indeed as his flat was cleared, the 'alleged' was continually opening his door to see what was going on.

 

Any help would be appreciated. As mentioned this is a very messy affair... but my motivation here is to recover whatever i can of my mums rightful pension for having lived with him all the years that he acquired it.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi John,

 

CAG is obviously a self-help site, but in some cases I do think a solicitor should be involved, and this is one of those cases, if you can afford to instruct someone.

 

You can write to this individual yourself but from what you have said so far it seems likely he may lie and say your father actually gave him all the possessions. A solicitor's letter would probably carry more weight and if you do decide to do this then you should use the best solicitor in the area - one with a mixed practice of litigation and criminal.

 

I would also include a claim for that £12,000. You could say you know it was a loan. If they say it was a gift you could ask them if they declared it to HMRC. If they think they might get investigated for benefit fraud they might be a little more reasonable about the other possessions.

 

I don't think from what you have said that this man is going to just hand back the possessions. The fact that he has, apparently, removed all the documentation about ownership shows what he is attempting to do here, but a good solicitor should demand proof of ownership from him. You need a really nasty solicitor here, and you should speak to several before making your choice. There is absolutely no point in using someone who will write a nice reasonable letter. Remember, we "instruct" solicitors and you want one who will throw everything at this individual and put the legal frighteners on him.

 

Get as much information as you can about the vehicles before you do anything, as you have said you will do. Any evidence that can be included in the first letter will help.

 

Sorry I can't suggest more.

 

DD