Unlawful Car Repo? MotoNovo

[orfoster]

Hello,

 

I am looking into something for the gf.

 

She took out a hire purchase on a car in November 2009 with Carlyle Finance (now MotoNovo).

 

in April 2011 she telephoned them to say that she was entering into financial difficulties,

she wanted to explore taking lower payments,

this was due to a gap in teaching contracts between then and July,

she wanted to take a payment holiday.

 

Obviously this wasn't acceptable and they offered 3 months @ 50% and to make up the payments over 4 months, totalling £242 per month.

 

Essentially they took back the car and sold it

 

one day out of the blue she was called by a guy from collections saying he was there waiting for her,

she said this hadn't been arranged and certainly not at that time because she is a teacher and wouldn't be able to do a collection until after 3pm.

 

In June 2011 she raised a dispute with them about the defaults and about the "aborted collection fee" which was added to the account,

it is clear they received the dispute letters x2 because they've come back in the SAR request

but they haven't ever responded which is also clear from their system notes and SAR response.

 

To add, in the credit agreement signed the 2nd page was never there,

infact they've confirmed that we've received all that they've got on file,

 

 

the significance of this is that under "Important - use of your information" it reads

 

" We will obtain information about you from credit reference agencies and we will record information about you with them.

It is important that you read the "use of your information" notice overleaf before you sign".

 

They have supplied a further two pages of terms and conditions, none of which even remotely mention how they will use information.

 

I want to know

- can we hold them in breach of contract by not responding to dispute or supplying evidence which we asked for?

Should they have lodged a default on credit file when the contract doesn't talk about how information will be used?

 

So far we are relying on ICO technical guidance around filing a default while an account is in dispute as unfair....

 

Many thanks

 

O

[dx100uk]

urm.

 

barking up the wrong tree here me thinks.

 

how much of the agreement was paid up to the point of the car being taken?

 

was it VT or VS?

 

did she sign anything?

 

WHERE was the car repo from?

 

you do realise that 9/10 the repo guy has NO legal powers.

they are NOT bailiffs!!

 

dx

[orfoster]

40% of the way through the agreement and continued paying up until July 2012 when settled for £700 with Equidebt who they'd sold the debt to. So by the end of it she had paid around 55% est.

 

VT or VS? Sorry can't work out what that means.

 

No when he took the car nothing was signed and they tried to put charges on her for things she disputed and they never replied.

 

Oh I know, I wasn't with her at the time.

 

Just trying to work out if anything can be done about it now.

[dx100uk]

opps more things smell

 

they sold the debt to a DCA...

 

why do you think they did that..THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG with the balance owed

- IF anything was owed AT ALL!

 

if you had paid more than 1/3rd THEY CANNOT REPO THE CAR

without a COURT ORDER

 

without you either asking for & SIGNING:

 

a VT - voluntary repo - you [sort of] only actually owe 50% of the org bal, [the condition & their sale of the car comes into this too]

 

a VS - voluntary surrender - you owe every penny & they get the car.

 

i'll move your thread to the vehicle repo forum

 

have a read there of threads and the stickies.

 

something smeel here.

 

bet she had PPI and other [compulsory insurances too} & penalty fees

 

all can be reclaimed

 

dx

[orfoster]

Ok, thanks for responding.

 

Yes they sold to DCA and didn't inform of that.

 

She was told they'd be collecting the car,

she did not sign.

The only thing signed was her complaint which reads

'the car was due to be picked up last week, but the company never turned up and I have rearranged'

 

is that her signing?

 

There was no signing for the car when it was collected at all.

 

When they took the car they sold it at auction and took that off the balance owed.

 

I need to check exactly whether it was over 1/3rd repaid.

 

There wasn't any PPI but charges applied and aborted collection charge which she believes are unfair.

 

What are her options here?

 

Cheers

 

Yes based on the payments before repo she'd paid more than a third of the total payments.

[dx100uk]

this smells of unlawful repo to me.

 

i'd have to get someone to look in.

 

were there any letters referring to this between the initial phone call

 

and the repo guy tuning up

 

what notes are on the comms log etc

 

look for vt or vs

and comments on the repo

 

we've seen companies screw up

by putting damning note like

repo was unlawful etc

 

they sold the debt for a very good reason

 

find it.

 

IMHO you certainly did not need to pay the dca anything

just fell for the threats I bet from them

 

does that £700 show on the SAr statements?

what does here cra file say too on this debt?

 

dx

 

 

 

dx

[orfoster]

Morning,

 

They have no record of any calls or letters from her saying anything about repo.

 

All they've provided is copies of 3 calls where they left messages about payment and claim they only keep calls for 1 year.

 

The notes do read on 12 May 11 'VT letter rec'd. VT1 issued as follows arrears £188.46. Half claim £1474, total liability £1662 account to be issued to MIS (?) Friday to allow for objection'

 

She absolutely did not receive any VT letter and there's nothing on file.

 

On the 20 April 11 she called to say she wanted a payment holiday, she missed her payment on 1 May, they defaulted her on 25 May according to their records and continued to do so until July 12 when she made the £700 payment to Equidebt which doesn't show up on the statement they provided through the SAR.

 

They talk about 'DRY' in their comms logs.

 

To be honest it's the worst disclosure I've seen, they have no copy letters although I'm going to ask for more incase they're withholding but the file is pretty bad.

 

The CRA has her defaults all registered.

 

Oh and probably most importantly nothing happened between that call and repo guy calling up, I think DRY means attempt collection or something.

 

Cheers

[orfoster]

Just worked this out - she didn't own a 3rd of the car. I assume this is including interest on the agreement?

 

She paid £2,650 by repo and 33% of the total balance inc interest would be £2,844!

 

Which is so annoying, I guess this means they can do what they like.

 

To explain how they've put this on the statement;

Cash price £5,995

Option to purchase (exc VAT) £129.57??

Interest payable £2,276.08

Interest rate 9% per annum.

 

Don't know what this option to purchase is? But it is noted in credit agreement with also a £199 arrangement fee.

 

There are also £94 charges on account, £59 before repo and another collections management charge but this was the day after they've said 'on site now' on account notes (we aren't sure if this was the date of repo) there's nothing that clearly says when it was - default notice and collections management charge.

Just below a 3rd! I think.

If you take off this option to purchase which we don't know why that's on there, and the charges before repo it comes to....£2,838!!!! It's £2,873 if we can use the last collection management charge.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Another point is that they say they put charges and defaults on if you're 28 days or more in arrears.

She paid on 30 Mar 11 and missed 30 April payment, they issued default on 4 May 11 and added collections charge on 26 May 11.

[postggj]

Morning do you have any communication in writing on this repo

 

Did you sign any vehicle condition report when the vehicle was taken

 

Do you have a copy of the default notice and hp agreement

 

Was the debt collection agency collecting on behalf of the finance company or did they own (assigned) the debt

 

Did you object to the repossession when they took the car with the repo agent

Edited May 26, 2013 by squaddie

[orfoster]

No communication in writing, even within SAR response and she doesn't remember receiving anything.

 

She's sure nothing was signed and certainly again nothing supplied signed in SAR response.

 

We have a copy of HP agreement and a copy of the default notice for the 1 payment missed, nothing else.

 

I'm not sure if debt was sold or not it just says 'file passed to Equidebt' but I'll check because I think there is a payment into the account for about £1,000 around the date they took debt on.

[postggj]

It is important to find out when Equidebt took on this account, and did they own the account or collecting on behalf of

 

I need you to post the agreement and default notice onto your thread. Google a program called photo bucket to do this. You can edit out personal details and account numbers, but leave in the figures and dates

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[orfoster]

Ok,

I used PhotoBucket....hopefully this will work.

 

 

 

 

 

Terms & Conditions supposedly in place at the time.....

 

 

 

 

docs 1.pdf

[postggj]

That is not a default notice, thats a notice of default sums

 

A default notice is served under 87(1) of the CCA 1974

[orfoster]

Ok, well that's all they've sent as like a default notice. There was nothing else in SAR bundle.

So does this mean we can challenge it?

[postggj]

Yes

 

did you receive a termination notice

[orfoster]

Nope, nothing at all. Just the default notice and repo guy.

[postggj]

Did you say no to the repo man taking the vehicle

 

was the vehicle on your drive or in the street when it was taken

[orfoster]

No he just turned up and said he was there for the car, it was on private property on a farm well of the public highway.

 

He made her feel as though she had absolutely no other option and it had to be done there and then. So she just let him take it, nothing was signed.

[postggj]

We can use that, how do you want to go ahead with this now, what are your intentions??

 

HOW MUCH IS OUTSTANDING

 

ARE EQUIDEBT GIVING YOU ANY GRIEF

 

IS THE ACCOUNT NOW PAID UP AND CLOSED

[orfoster]

Basically, want the default removed from credit file and account marked as settled. Because of that default when she needed to borrow for something in a hurry she had to take a high interest credit card so would be looking for compensation? In the past I see people have tagged £1,000 to default notice.

 

What do you think? Is there any other options?

 

Sorry didnt spot last bit.

She phoned Equidebt in July 12 and they settled for £700ish and the account was marked as closed.

[dx100uk]

oh! illegally repo'd from private land ...bril!!

 

dx

[postggj]

The default may be an issue unless you have something in writing agreeing to the reduced payments etc

 

we need to ask the finance company for a copy of the default/assignment, and termination notice

 

when did you send the sar to the finance company

[orfoster]

They went out of time so the ICO intervened because they ignored 4 or 5 reminders so they sent it last week.

 

No nothing in writing from them, just a telephone call with Equidebt agreeing reduced amounts but the default was applied before then anyway, it was put on only after 1 missed payment, is that legal?

 

And if they don't have default notice, only the one I've posted above doesn't that make it incorrect?

 

I can write back to them asking for all of that information but I had to ask for calls which they've written back and said they don't have them and they don't hold anything else on file but worth confirming with them.

[postggj]

you need to be telling them that the information received is incomplete and that you will be passing it back to the ICO if they fail to comply

 

you need

 

default notice

termination notice

any notice of assignment

all computer screen shots

how much the vehicle was sold for at auction

full statement of account at tine of termination

 

please confirm the date the default was registered with the credit agencies