1st credit chasing old citi/BMI baby credit card debt

[Stivani]

Hi, right my brother finally received his documents from the sar request to Citi.

 

Could someone give me some pointers please on what i should tell him to look for in these files, he received a fair bit of info from them but hes not sure what to do with it.

 

@DX had a read through some threads as suggested over xmas found some interesting info, not really found anything that could help my brother yet but will keep reading thanks for the tip.

[dx100uk]

well you certainly need to comfirm the last shown payment

 

and look for any penalty fees [£12,£20 etc et fixed sum fee late/letter/over etc]

 

look for regular monthly entries say like PPI

 

look at what happened around the time the account 'changed' to a BMIBABY card.

 

often [i think] there was NO agreement sent out to sign and return]

 

that wil invalidate the whole debt I bet/

 

if you type in BMIBABY in the grey search topbox

i'm sure threads a large thread from moon sago about this

 

dx

[Stivani]

Hi, had a chance to go over to my brother's last night and go over the documents he received, some interesting reading.

 

Thanks for the pointers of what to look out for dx, here's what i found.

 

well you certainly need to comfirm the last shown payment

In the statements provided by citi the last payment made either directly to citi or through a debt management company was paid on 23/05/08, so almost 6 years ago.

 

and look for any penalty fees [£12,£20 etc et fixed sum fee late/letter/over etc]

Oh boy there were plenty of these, one run i counted about nine months straight towards the end when he was actually paying them through a debt management company, all in all all late payment fee and overlimit fees totaled up to £622.

 

look for regular monthly entries say like PPI

There were regular entries almost every month called 'Cardholder repayment protection' can i assume this is the same as PPI?

 

These charges ranged from £0.01 to £70+ and totaled to £1158.50

 

Not sure what this ''protection'' was designed to protect him from exactly as it didn't once seem to cover a payment for him if he missed a month.

 

So as far as i can see they just charged him this then interest on top and if it put him over his limit they charged him for that too and interest on top of that also. Gotta love credit card companies.

 

look at what happened around the time the account 'changed' to a BMIBABY card.

This second 'credit agreement' that mentions BMIBABY came almost at the very end before the debt was sold, the only thing i can see is the second page of this document mentions 'flex payments' and in the statements a few months prior to this 'flex payments balance' started to appear but they were all listed as 0.00.

 

 

often [i think] there was NO agreement sent out to sign and return]

 

that wil invalidate the whole debt I bet/

The files they sent contained no signatures other than the one he sent a few weeks ago to get these documents.

 

In fact apart from the two reconstituted credit agreements and the monthly statements, copies of recent letters to and from them, there wasn't much else he received except a lot of what look like logs of telephone calls when they were trying to contact him or communicating with the debt management company. These for the most part are incomprehensible jibberish and shorthand that i mostly can't decipher.

 

if you type in BMIBABY in the grey search topbox

i'm sure threads a large thread from moon sago about this

Thanks DX will definitely look into that one,

[dx100uk]

use this spread

one copy for charges

 

one copy for PPI

 

put THEIR int rate in cell D15

 

CISheet v101.xls

[Stivani]

Hi, thanks for the spreadsheet dx.

 

Filled them in last night for my brother.

 

Two things im not sure about though.

 

Which interest rate to use? The rate changes from month to month on his statements, for now ive used 24.9% which was listed at the front of the reconstituted credit agreement. Is that the right one to use?

 

Secondly the from and to dates? Can i take it the from date is the date of the first charge and to is present day?

 

Thanks in advance, cheers

[dx100uk]

highest int you can find!

 

the sheet should end when they stop int or sold the account.

 

then use the statint sheet

[Stivani]

Just so i get this right dx [sorry if im being a bit dense], do two sheets:

 

First that starts the date of the first charge and ends when the account closed with citi at the highest rate i can find which is 29.9%

 

And then a second sheet listing the same charges that starts from when the account ended to present day: at which interest rate 8%?

 

Apologies for the confusion not my strongest point stuff like this. Appreciate the help.

[dx100uk]

yes sri the internet is sometimes flaky in high winds up very north

 

end the CISHEET on the day they stopped interest at their rate.

 

then take that total and pop it in as a single lump sum on the day after they stopped int

 

the sheet does the rest

StatIntSheet v101.xls

 

do the same for the PPI CISHEET.

 

you are entitled to 8% stat int on any total sum from the date they stop theirs

[Stivani]

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up for me dx.

 

Will do this for his charges and PPI sheets today, whats the next stage with the PPI after getting these sheets drawn up?

 

Cheers

[dx100uk]

you'll certainly need to do:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi.html

 

the FOS CQ

 

a covering letter adapt:

 

The Complaints Department

[Lender’s address]

[Date]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Ref – policy number

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid.

I took out a £xxx loan/credit card at your [branch name] branch on [date] and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost me an extra £xxx over the life of the loan. [The name of the salesperson who sold me the policy is …] The total amount of my premiums plus interest is £ xxxx.

When I took out the loan, I was told that my application would be refused if I did not also buy a PPI policy. The Financial Services Authority’s advice to consumers is that, while it does not breach FSA guidelines, a borrower should not be refused a loan if they choose not to buy an insurance policy.

Possible additional paragraphs – include any which apply to you

[i also told your salesperson that I had adequate insurance cover through a separate income protection policy.]

 

[i said I did not need the PPI as my employer provides a generous illness and redundancy package.]

[You are not allowed to make PPI a condition of taking out the loan unless you include the costs of PPI in the quoted interest rate, which you did not do.]

[in forcing me to buy this policy, you have also breached paragraph 8.6 of the Banking Code, to which you are a signatory.]

I do not believe being forced to buy this policy as part of the loan was a fair and reasonable obligation as I did not need this insurance and said at the time of taking the loan that I did not want it.

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments, plus interest, which total [£ xxx].

If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

or

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re:

 

I am writing in relation to the above payment protection (PPI) policy which i believe was mis-sold to me in relation to my

I believe you have not treated me fairly for the following reasons;

· The PPI was added without my knowledge..

· You have been punished by the Financial Services Authority for failing to treat customers fairly and I do not believe that the PPI I bought was sold in my best interest.

Unless you can prove that the policy was fair and reasonable and that I was treated fairly when I was sold the insurance, I demand a full refund of all premiums, and subsequent interest on these payments, that I have paid in relation to this policy. I also expect 8% interest to be added to each payment I have made as this is the statutory amount a court would pay.

I look forward to your full and prompt response to this letter. If this matter is not settled within eight weeks of this letter I shall be contacting the Financial Ombudsman to investigate my complaint.

This letter is in respect of the above account that was issued by

Yours faithfully

 

 

..................

 

as for the charges

 

Account number

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

I recently became aware of media reports on the investigation into credit card charges by the Office of Fair Trading.

 

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you had applied to my account in relation to late and over limit charges

are unlawful at Common Law & under both Statute and Consumer regulation as they do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of your actual costs, but more a fixed PENALTY.

 

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that this account was opened.

 

 

It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law

and in consideration of fair business practices and good faith.

 

 

 

It is my contention that you have failed to operate my account in a manner conducive to the above and have demonstrated a lack of fiduciary duty.

 

 

 

I calculate that you have taken £240.00 plus £878.70 which you have charged me in interest which totals £1,118.70.

 

 

 

Therefore this letter demands a refund of all PENALTY charges indicated including interest to the date you settle,

 

 

 

As the account concerned is closed, I request that payment is made directly to me, either by cheque or by BACS transfer.

 

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

Enc; Schedule of charges

[Stivani]

Hi, this is great info dx thank you,

 

got the charges one drew up and printed off last night,

my brother sent it off this morning,

will be doing the same with the PPI sheet tonight maybe.

 

In the mean time would appreciate if you could have a look at these letters he got over the weekend.

 

First one is the usual guff about pay within x days and get x amount off,

 

the second is saying they will be sending doorstep agents out to see him.

 

I remember reading someone got one of these letters and they were advised to send them a letter about implied rights of access to their property,

would that letter be used in this case and would it actually stop them coming out?

 

Thanks in advance bye

[dx100uk]

std crap.

 

don't rply.

 

as for the implied rights etc

 

stay away from the FoTL [freedom of the Land] site

 

utter rubbish.

 

a doorstepper just like any DCA

ARE NOT BAILIFFS

they have

NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS.

 

if they do turn up

please leave call the police.

 

never ever, discuss or pay any debt to a DCA on the phone

or

at your door

 

you are under NO LEGAL obligation to do so.

 

dx

[Stivani]

Hi, so he's best just ignoring these letters then and that implied right of access letter would be a waste of time you reckon?

 

They arrived on the same day but are dated a week apart which is a bit strange i thought.

 

I also found the headline of the second letter interesting ''Make us an offer''

 

a doorstepper just like any DCA

ARE NOT BAILIFFS

they have

NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS.

 

if they do turn up

please leave call the police.

 

Cheers for this bit of info, i had an idea they had no power but good to know for sure, that should put his mind at ease for now.

 

Thanks bye

[dx100uk]

I would not enter into letter tennis

 

dx

[Stivani]

Hi quick question,

 

my brother sent two separate letters to Citi

one asking for the credit charges back

and another for PPI,

 

he received two identical letters back dated a day apart saying they acknowledge his complaint

and will get back to him but the time frame they give in both is eight weeks.

 

From what ive read this is standard for a PPI complaint,

but can they take that long for the unfair charges complaint?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

any complaint is 8 weeks.

 

dx

[Stivani]

Ah right ok thanks DX , fair enough must have been thrown off by the 'response in 14 days' in the credit charges template letter.

 

Cheers

[Stivani]

Hi my brother got the first reply back from Citi,

this one is about the charges,

 

it spouts a load of guff about the OFT and the £12 threshold charges.

 

But it goes on to say that they never charged him more than £12 which is an outright lie as their own records prove.

 

I thought it was common for them to make an offer,

here they are just denying any liability completely.

 

Where would he go from here with it?

 

Ask the ombudsman to review it?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[dx100uk]

omb wont touch a charges reclaim.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

usual drivel

 

the OFT

 

said

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2006/68-06#.Uv6HC6NFDRY

 

they still have to PROVE they are fair

 

blue note 4

 

citi are actually twisting the rules to fit what they think is correct

 

dx

[Stivani]

Hi DX, what are his options in this case then, write back to them to call them on their lies and rubbish, or threaten to take them to court?

 

Cheers

[dx100uk]

adapt/use

 

 

in reply to their letter:

with regard to your letter of the 30th.

i thank you for the gesture of goodwill

in relation toward the refund of your unlawful penalty charges

however, i beg to differ upon your points raised

concerning your interpretation of the OFT statement.

It is perfectly evident that it applies to ALL types of

consumer credit agreements, else why are

all the major credit cards companies & indeed

other catalogue companies, including yourselves

settling complaints of this nature?

it is also worthy to note, that the statement was a recommendation

of £12, not permission to charge such a penalty.

When & if you truthfully disclose your actual costs

then perhaps consumers might have a better faith in the industry.

i now move to the matter of the interest you have charged me

on these penalty charges.

in line with the std FOS calculation, you have failed

to place me back in the position i would

have been, had you not levied such charges,

You have omitted to include the interest you have charged me

on each day for each charge.

Having already prepared the documents required should

i take the option to take you to court, i have included

a repeat copy of my schedule of charges.

from the total detailed i have removed your refunded sum.

i will give you 14 days before i decide my next move.

However, either way, be this court or the FOS, this will increase

your costs by adding a further 8% statutory interest to my claim.

Having consulted information provided by the FOS

i am also advised to inform you of their fees levied

upon the company under investigation - £450

i sincerely hope we can resolve my claim

without further involvement.

however, please be advised i will not hestitate

in escalating this complaint should it not

be resolved to my satisfaction.

yours

disgrutled customer

that should do

dx

[Stivani]

Thank you DX, ill adapt that a little for him and get him to send it off.

 

Yet another letter from 1st credit, i now get a regular text every monday from my brother about a new letter from these numptys, they must be downing entire sections of forest to enable their harassment of people.

 

I havent posted all the letters he gets on here as they are mostly the same guff, all the recent ones threatening 'doorstep cash collectors' .

 

So this one is threatening that they will pass it onto Connaught Collection which from what i have read is part of 1st Credit so it could be just going down the corridor.

 

Who are Connaught? And is this anything for him to worry about?

 

As always advice greatly appreciated.

[Stivani]

Hi, right forgot to post this, he received a reply from Citi about his PPI complaint.

 

They are saying his complaint is being upheld and they will refund him the £2,482.76 that he asked for less 20% tax on the 8% interest which comes to £2,328.28,which is a result in my opinion.

 

So he is pleased with this and asked me to pass his thanks along to you DX and the others who have helped him so far in this thread.

 

I have said to him that when/if we sort his problems with these debts out that he should make a donation to this site which he agrees with.

 

Hes not clear of these parasites yet but this has definitely lifted his spirits, a big thanks to everyone on here who has helped him not least DX, cheers mate.

 

Bye

[dx100uk]

 

just the next bloke at the next desk in a different coloured skirt.

 

its done to make you think theres a 'whole fleet of important sounding companies'

after this debt

 

just silly threat-o-grams

which is all these no powers dca's can do..

 

dx