No contract - What to do?

[QubeHip]

Hi guys.

 

I joined this forum originally to get in on the chatting and help other people out wherever I can even though I'm not particularly the most skilled individual when it comes to money and legal jargon, but it seems I'm a person who needs help now, although nothing in-depth (for now).

 

As it stands now, I work as a garbage collector and part-time snow removal in Manitoba, Canada. I don't make very much money but have always done well for myself all things considered, and provide for my wife and kid decently if my word is to be trusted...

 

But our living circumstances are complicated, needless to say. We are currently living in a rented home, however, we are not the renter. To avoid anything confusing, the layout is:

 

Owner -> Renter -> Me

 

However, we have no contract with either party. In fact, we are living in this home as part of an agreement with the renter... Verbal agreement. The owner has no clue that the renter isn't living in the house and that it's us instead. From what I have found out by asking around, I pay the rent the renter must pay with a little bit extra, so I guess this is something he does to turn a profit from doing something like this.

 

The renter has been coming around increasingly more often in the past weeks. First, it was to make sure everything was running well. Then, he simply hung around the house. Every time I would object (mainly because my daughter would complain), he would inform me rather blandly that it is his contract, his house. This was not what we agreed upon.

 

I am beginning to become worried that maybe he will evict us from our home without us being able to really do much of anything, and I have made an appointment with a lawyer next month as I live somewhere rather rural and he is gone on vacation. I don't have the money to afford traveling to the city, and paying for this lawyer was close enough to not being possible.

 

This then begs the question... What are my options? Can I get a contract several months into living here? Can I go to the owner and inform him of the situation? Is what I'm doing essentially illegal? Are verbal agreements even remotely valid under a housing system?

 

Any information would be great... I'm not looking for really in-depth explanations or ideas, just a general overview of what's open to me before I go to the lawyer. I am not good with this stuff and I want to make sure I address everything I can when I meet with him.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. This is posted under homelessness in the off-chance that I have no options and may end up being, indeed, evicted with nowhere else to go for a few months.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome QubeHip,

 

I'm not sure you'll get the answers your looking for, this is a mainly UK based site so I'm not sure you'll find anyone here well versed in Canadian housing issues.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[QubeHip]

Hello and Welcome QubeHip,

 

I'm not sure you'll get the answers your looking for, this is a mainly UK based site so I'm not sure you'll find anyone here well versed in Canadian housing issues.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

 

Understandable! I've found that a few things are similar between our nations since we're both Commonwealth, but you may be right that there are big differences... I figured that since I was already registered here I should try this avenue first to avoid registering elsewhere.

 

Generally speaking, is there a way to do something about a situation like this in the UK? Specific terms? I wonder if legal jargon is pretty universal in English speaking countries, so I could certainly look up and specify whatever I get told to inquire whether or not there's something similar here... Good idea or?

[seanamarts]

this may help.

 

http://www.ontariotenants.ca/index.phtml

[QubeHip]

this may help.

 

http://www.ontariotenants.ca/index.phtml

 

Had a look around for about 30 minutes on that site this morning and couldn't find anything about what a tenant should do in a situation such as mine. I fear that maybe this is a bit of a rarity in housing. Will this turn out to be a situation where I just need to wait for the lawyer and see what he says?

[seanamarts]

I have no idea I am afraid, as it has already been noted, that this is a UK site with UK regulations and laws. It is probably best that you seek legal help within Canadian Laws etc.

[QubeHip]

I have no idea I am afraid, as it has already been noted, that this is a UK site with UK regulations and laws. It is probably best that you seek legal help within Canadian Laws etc.

 

Darn. Fair enough. Thanks for providing the website link!

[stu007]

Hi have a look at this link:

 

http://www.gov.mb.ca/cca/rtb/

 

Please also have a good read of this link from same site I do feel you really need to get some housing advice from an advice agency or your council to assist you in your local area.

 

http://www.gov.mb.ca/cca/rtb/gbook/s2tenagree_assign-sublet1.html also on this link near the bottom look out for Forms & Form Letters and have a look at the document Assignment or Subletting of Tenancy Agreement you will have to download it (its a word document).

 

This link is to The Residential Tenancies Act: http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/r119ei.php

 

From what I have read it seems like the main Tenant has Sublet the property to yourself without seeking permission from the landlord and completing a Form 3 Assignment or Subletting of Tenancy Agreement for yourself as the main Tenant would need the landlords permission.

 

As this is Canadian Law and more specific a Housing matter you really need to seek advice on this so that you know exactly what your rights are try going to and advocacy, advice centre or you council housing department

Edited June 5, 2013 by stu007

[stu007]

These PDFs may be of help:

[QubeHip]

Thank you so much for the links, Stu! I never thought about actually going to the Manitoba government site, oddly enough. I had a quick look over the .doc you told me to check out and it seems you're right that this is what I needed. I definitely didn't see any form or written agreement, and I will be printing this stuff out for my appointment next month. I now at least know what I need to ask about, thankfully.

 

Thank you again! This is superbly helpful.

[stu007]

Your more than welcome glad to be of help

 

What you need to bear in mind is you have NO written Agreement and the Landlord is also unaware of your tenancy in the property.

 

You really need to seek advice on this as a matter of urgency to know exactly what your legal rights are with no agreement in place and no landlord permission I cannot stress that enough especially since the actual tenant with the landlords agreement is now using that against you.

 

My concern is the no agreement in place or landlord permission but as I don't know Canadian Law my best advice is that you need to seek advice on this as a matter urgently so you know what your legal rights are especially if eviction may be a possibility.

[QubeHip]

Your more than welcome glad to be of help

 

What you need to bear in mind is you have NO written Agreement and the Landlord is also unaware of your tenancy in the property.

 

You really need to seek advice on this as a matter of urgency to know exactly what your legal rights are with no agreement in place and no landlord permission I cannot stress that enough especially since the actual tenant with the landlords agreement is now using that against you.

 

My concern is the no agreement in place or landlord permission but as I don't know Canadian Law my best advice is that you need to seek advice on this as a matter urgently so you know what your legal rights are especially if eviction may be a possibility.

 

I understand. I think I might see if there's a temporary position at a local factory so I can foot the bill to see a lawyer in the city immediately rather than wait for the town's lawyer next month in July... I'm not sure if eviction is a genuine possibility, but my daughter is complaining about his presence rather often, my wife is starting to avoid being inside the house when he's around, and I'm left in an uncomfortable position where I can either keep trying to get him to leave or just swallow the discomfort and deal with it quietly. I'll be keeping quiet for the next month at least, just so I can figure out what my options are for this situation.

 

Thank you again!

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have a look at this link on Find an Advocate as the one listed may be of help as they deal with housing and tenants (I know it says families and children but no harm in asking as they may help or if they cant may be able to point you in the right direction of somewhere else local)

 

http://www.povnet.org/find-an-advocate/mb/housing-and-tenants

[deannatrois]

Is there a way you might be able to find out who the landlord is? Here we have a legal register of ownership of houses and this gives a starting point. As you are at risk of losing the house, it might be worth discussing with whoever advises you.., if its worth contacting the landlord directly (with proof of the rent you've paid if you have it) and asking if you could rent from him directly. The worst that can happen is that you will lose the house. The best that you will be paying less rent and will be able to stop this guy u took the tenancy from from visiting when he feels like it.

Of course, I do appreciate this may be too simplistic a view. You may have to fund a deposit you don't have with a new landlord. But you might just be able to come to an agreement with him too. But before you do anything about this, I'd advise discussing all options and consequences with an experienced advisor of some sort.

[Seraphesfahan]

Is there a way you might be able to find out who the landlord is? Here we have a legal register of ownership of houses and this gives a starting point. As you are at risk of losing the house, it might be worth discussing with whoever advises you.., if its worth contacting the landlord directly (with proof of the rent you've paid if you have it) and asking if you could rent from him directly. The worst that can happen is that you will lose the house. The best that you will be paying less rent and will be able to stop this guy u took the tenancy from from visiting when he feels like it.

Of course, I do appreciate this may be too simplistic a view. You may have to fund a deposit you don't have with a new landlord. But you might just be able to come to an agreement with him too. But before you do anything about this, I'd advise discussing all options and consequences with an experienced advisor of some sort.

 

I echo this and this may actually be a point that isn't touched upon yet! If you can figure out who the landlord is and can provide records of your rent payments and proof that you do, indeed, live there, you may be able to force a situation of special circumstances. It may be wishful thinking, but after consulting with a lawyer you may want to consider that option. It would be naturally better if you can find a way to replace the current tenant and take over the contract, or maybe get a new, cheaper contract because of how poorly his/her tenant handled the situation!

 

Your lawyer will likely contact the landlord anyways, if there is anything to be done. Be prepared to move out at any given moment, just in case. You never know what your current landlord will do, or what the property landlord will do, or what the law itself will do.

 

Best of luck!!

[stu007]

HI QubeHip

 

Just thought Id pop in and see how you managed to get on with this?