Attended IUC - Any advice? - ** APPEAL WON **

[LifeIsAMess]

I do think it would be best if your solicitor checked the letter so show him on Tuesday.

 

I'm glad you think I've been helpful.

 

I love your CAG name by the way. It sums up the feelings of many of us here.

 

Thanks I'm glad I found this place, some comments are hard hitting but well I guess it helps to learn a hard lesson!

[id6052]

thanks for explaining that you are in receipt of DLA(care)

 

do you receive a Severe Disability Premium in the calculation of your Income Support?

normally you get this if: -

 

1. you are receiving DLA© at middle or higher rates
   
2. nobody is claiming carers allowance for looking after you
   
3. you do not have a partner or non-dependant living with you
   

if your friend was living with you, that could mean you were not entitled to the severe disability premium, and might have to repay it

i would suggest checking your income support award/uprating notices to see if you were receiving it

[LifeIsAMess]

thanks for explaining that you are in receipt of DLA(care)

 

do you receive a Severe Disability Premium in the calculation of your Income Support?

normally you get this if: -

 

1. you are receiving DLA© at middle or higher rates
   
2. nobody is claiming carers allowance for looking after you
   
3. you do not have a partner or non-dependant living with you
   

if your friend was living with you, that could mean you were not entitled to the severe disability premium, and might have to repay it

i would suggest checking your income support award/uprating notices to see if you were receiving it

 

Hi, I do receive the premium and knew it was given to people where nobody was claiming carers allowance for looking after them but as for point 3 I've never seen that or come across that statement in my life. Both when I claimed JSA years back or when claiming IS. That premium is awarded automatically and the only explanation on the award letter is "because you are severely disabled".

 

This just gets worse and worse. Here was me thinking they would simply be calling me back in with a decision at some point but looks like things are going to become quite messy with all these rules popping up all over the place non of which they mentioned at IUC

[LifeIsAMess]

Has anyone seen this page on civil penalty charges? There is a seperate page for fraud which clearly states fraud is "intentionally not reporting" or "being dishonest" whereas the civil penalty page points towards negligence which I think applies in a lot of peoples cases from what I've read on this forum yet why do they jump on the fraud bandwagon straight away? Just because the fraud hotline was used?

 

I'll be printing these 2 pages out and taking them with me to my solicitor and when I'm next called in by FIS whenever that may be. I just hope I get another chance to speak to them before it goes to the DM.

 

https://www.gov.uk/civil-penalty-changes-affect-benefits

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

[LifeIsAMess]

Hi All

 

Received a letter today saying I have been overpaid IS for exactly 2 years due to LTAHW how they came about these dates I have no idea. It said on the letter to phone the number at the top for more information on how they came about making their decision so I did and guess what? Nothing has been recorded..not a single thing. No information on my case AT ALL.

 

So I really don't know what to make of all this. There was no 30% penalty added on and they didn't add any of the disability premiums onto the over payment either which I guess I should be grateful for. I will be appealing of course but the letter did say to ask them to look at the decision again before appealing but since nobody seems to be able to give me any info (phoned 3 times) I guess I'll just have to go full steam ahead.

 

I was advised I'm entitled to conts based IB but to be honest I'm afraid to claim anything. Whatever I put on the form is going to be contradiction in their eyes. If I say my friend just lives with me they could open a new fraud case and if I say he's my partner like they think he is then they could open another one for previous years so what the hell do I do?

 

They did say someone would call me back within 24 hours to let me know about the decision so waiting on that. One woman did call me, she sounded really angry about the fact I'd called 3 times, warned me that the call was being recorded and for the sake of not wasting her time or mine to state exactly what I wanted to know. At the end of the call she said the best thing I can do is just ask my friend to move out which when I think about it is actually true but that doesn't solve my short term problems as my benefit has been completely stopped and it will take him some time to find somewhere and move out and with my MH problems and disability I'll probably end up 6 feet under by the end of the year anyway.

 

I'm so angry that they get to decided who is a couple and who is not. Does anyone know if they are supposed to give notice of benefits being stopped? I'm sure I read a few places they had to give 28 days notice. Also why was there no 30% added on like everyone else seems to get? At the end of the IUC I was given a letter saying I would be either given a caution, an ad-pen or called back in but all I got was this letter instead. I should mention the FIS I spoke to today mentioned the matter is far from over and this is only the beginning and court proceeding are a long way off yet. If anyone is interested the overpayment is just over 7k.

 

I thought I had read everything I possibly could on these cases but mine just seems totally weird. I only attended my IUC less than 5 weeks ago...wasn't expecting to hear back for at least another while and now there is no info recorded on system. Also the FIS is denying he phoned up dwp requesting my account notes from the exact date my overpayment starts yet I was told he did this by another department member just on friday there (she probably shouldn't have told me he did this but she did so why would he deny it)...something fishy is going on.

 

To add more sh*t to the fan...my solicitor can't deal with it anymore until it actually goes to court as according to him it's only a civil matter at the moment.

 

Thanks

[id6052]

Civil matter

Whether a person has been overpaid or the amount of an overpayment is a civil matter which can be appealed to HM Courts and Tribunals Service. However from 2013, the government is introducing mandatory reconsiderations, this means that you will not be able to appeal straight off, first you will have to ask the DWP to reconsider the case. If you are not happy with outcome of reconsideration, you would then have a right of appeal to HMCTS. Your solicitor is correct, legal aid is not available for tribunal cases.

 

If you intend to dispute the DWP's decision, I would suggest requesting a full written explanation of the decision and copies of all evidence, documents considered in the decision-making process.

Criminal matter

Where a social security overpayment is considered by the DWP to be as a result of fraud (e.g. false statements, dishonesty, deliberate failures to declare or notify), the DWP have a number of options available: -

 

1. recover the overpayment, no further action
   
2. recover the overpayment, apply a formal caution - generally used for smaller overpayments - for this option, the claimant must admit the offence
   
3. recover the overpayment and apply a 30% surcharge or Administrative Penalty - for this option, the claimant does not need to admit the offence - if the claimant refuses to accept an AdPen, the DWP will normally prosecute
   
4. recover the overpayment and prosecute for benefit fraud - decisions as to whether to prosecute are made by the legal department
   

The DWP do not have to offer an AdPen

[estellyn]

You should get help with recon and appeal from a welfare rights service or cab - they can help you to prepare your case and write a submission for the Tribunal hearing.

[LifeIsAMess]

Civil matter

Whether a person has been overpaid or the amount of an overpayment is a civil matter which can be appealed to HM Courts and Tribunals Service. However from 2013, the government is introducing mandatory reconsiderations, this means that you will not be able to appeal straight off, first you will have to ask the DWP to reconsider the case. If you are not happy with outcome of reconsideration, you would then have a right of appeal to HMCTS. Your solicitor is correct, legal aid is not available for tribunal cases.

 

If you intend to dispute the DWP's decision, I would suggest requesting a full written explanation of the decision and copies of all evidence, documents considered in the decision-making process.

Criminal matter

Where a social security overpayment is considered by the DWP to be as a result of fraud (e.g. false statements, dishonesty, deliberate failures to declare or notify), the DWP have a number of options available: -

 

1. recover the overpayment, no further action
   
2. recover the overpayment, apply a formal caution - generally used for smaller overpayments - for this option, the claimant must admit the offence
   
3. recover the overpayment and apply a 30% surcharge or Administrative Penalty - for this option, the claimant does not need to admit the offence - if the claimant refuses to accept an AdPen, the DWP will normally prosecute
   
4. recover the overpayment and prosecute for benefit fraud - decisions as to whether to prosecute are made by the legal department
   

The DWP do not have to offer an AdPen

 

Thanks very much, this has been really helpful and explained a lot of things. I didn't get the phone call I was told I would get so I will write to them first thing tomorrow via recorded post.

 

I'm just so confused by my situation, nowhere on my letter is the word "fraud" mentioned and the fact there has been no information recorded on the system makes me all the more suspicious. It simply asks for the overpayment to be to repaid, no mention of no further action, no caution, no ad-pen...nothing.

 

Thanks again.

[LifeIsAMess]

You should get help with recon and appeal from a welfare rights service or cab - they can help you to prepare your case and write a submission for the Tribunal hearing.

 

Thanks I intend to although if I can't get an appointment by the end of the week I'm going to do the reconsideration myself as I really can't wait that long due to my IS claim being closed. Even though I've been told I'm entitled to conts based IB even if there is someone else in the household, to be honest I'm too scared to claim anything else again at the moment. Unless I can find a female friend to move in with me I've no idea what I'm going to do but knowing DWP they will probably turn round and accuse me of being in a civil partnership. I reckon selling my house is the way to go, my parents have offered me back at theirs though which I'm seriously considering now.

[id6052]

Thanks very much, this has been really helpful and explained a lot of things. I didn't get the phone call I was told I would get so I will write to them first thing tomorrow via recorded post.

 

I'm just so confused by my situation, nowhere on my letter is the word "fraud" mentioned and the fact there has been no information recorded on the system makes me all the more suspicious. It simply asks for the overpayment to be to repaid, no mention of no further action, no caution, no ad-pen...nothing.

 

Thanks again.

 

The letter you have received relates to the civil matter. So therefore it will usually only include information relating to: -

 

1. whether you have been overpaid
   
2. the benefit you have been overpaid
   
3. the calculation and/or amount of the overpayment
   
4. whether the overpayment is recoverable
   
5. who the overpayment is recoverable from
   

A copy of the overpayment decision would be forwarded to FIS who will determine whether there is a criminal matter to deal with. They would normally contact you separately.

[LifeIsAMess]

The letter you have received relates to the civil matter. So therefore it will usually only include information relating to: -

 

1. whether you have been overpaid
   
2. the benefit you have been overpaid
   
3. the calculation and/or amount of the overpayment
   
4. whether the overpayment is recoverable
   
5. who the overpayment is recoverable from
   

A copy of the overpayment decision would be forwarded to FIS who will determine whether there is a criminal matter to deal with. They would normally contact you separately.

 

Really? I contacted the FIS and he said the matter is completely out of their hands now. His exact words where "I've done my job and that was to interview you and collect evidence which I have done and sent to the DM in stirling so you will have to contact them, I can no longer discuss this matter with you, I have other cases to deal with"

 

But yeah what you have said sums up exactly what is in the letter I have received. They want to start deducting payments from my benefit...bit difficult when I'm not in receipt of any or have any other income.

 

Ok so all that aside, it sounds like you work for them...any idea why no information on my case or decision would not be entered into the system? The letter states I can phone up and ask how they made their decision which I did but 3 seperate people I spoke to said it's blank!

[id6052]

Sorry, I don't work for DWP

 

The DWP's systems are quite convuluted from what I understand, but I think it goes something along this line

 

1. Investigation Unit gathers evidence
   
2. Evidence is referred to Decision Making Unit who consider evidence and decide whether benefit should stay the same, increase, cease or reduce
   
3. If the decision results in an overpayment, it would be referred to Debt Management Unit to calculate the overpayment and seek recovery. This is the Civil Matter.
   
4. Also, if the decision results in an overpayment, it would be referred to Solicitors Branch to decide whether further sanction action should be applied (I assumed FIS would refer it to Solicitors Branch, but may be wrong and it might get referred directly by DM). This is the Criminal Matter.
   

Part of the difficulty is that each of these separate sections/units/departments are spread all over the country, so can take time for information to feed from one section/unit/department to another.

 

 

Oh, and I think that if you appeal, it is likely to end up in a different department again

[LifeIsAMess]

Sorry, I don't work for DWP

 

The DWP's systems are quite convuluted from what I understand, but I think it goes something along this line

 

1. Investigation Unit gathers evidence
   
2. Evidence is referred to Decision Making Unit who consider evidence and decide whether benefit should stay the same, increase, cease or reduce
   
3. If the decision results in an overpayment, it would be referred to Debt Management Unit to calculate the overpayment and seek recovery. This is the Civil Matter.
   
4. Also, if the decision results in an overpayment, it would be referred to Solicitors Branch to decide whether further sanction action should be applied (I assumed FIS would refer it to Solicitors Branch, but may be wrong and it might get referred directly by DM). This is the Criminal Matter.
   

 

Brilliant thanks so much! I have no idea why they do not explain things in simple terms like this on their letters! Would make life so much easier. You know they didn't even investigate any further after IUC...straight to DM...even my solicitor thought the case was weak, everyone I spoke to did. I'm pretty confident I can get this turned around. They didn't even come to my house or nothing.

 

Thanks again for your help, you've been great and helped me understand the whole process a whole lot better.

[LifeIsAMess]

Slight update for anyone interested or following this...I've an appointment with AdviceWorks tomorrow who are going to help me find out how they came about their decision since there is no information on the system therefore I can't ask for a reconsideration before appealing.

 

I only have 2 weeks left now because I was in a serious car crash last week. Wrote off my mobility car This is what happens when these people mess with your head, make you believe you are being followed, leave you with no income and bombard you with debt letters.

 

No idea how I'm going to get through this but I'm going to fight these people to the bitter end for the mental anxiety they have caused me. I truly believe if it were not for all this I wouldn't have crashed my car and as a result my back and chest pain is 5 times worse.

[LifeIsAMess]

Well today I won my appeal and was found not to be LTAHAW.

 

To anyone else going through similar PLEASE APPEAL and attend an oral hearing. Everything looks bad put down on paper by the DWP so it's your only chance to really challenge that.

 

Just be honest, state the facts and you should get the right result. (You would think this would also be true for IUC's but for some reason it's not?!?!)

[scotgal68]

Well done luv x

Time to get on with your life x

[LifeIsAMess]

Well done luv x

Time to get on with your life x

 

Thanks scotgla...sure is...well almost, but that's the false allegation dealt with so just need to sort out the way forward from here. I'm relaxing this weekend regardless! xx

[honeybee13]

That's excellent news for you, well done with the appeal and thank you for letting us know.

 

I'll amend your thread title.

 

HB x

[abc123def]

Good news! What a waste of money for the DWP/LA!

[Desperate Daniella]

Brilliant! Well done.

 

As you say, if you are honest and state the facts then it should be okay.

 

I am so glad this is finally over for you.

 

DDx

[LifeIsAMess]

Thanks guys much appreciated I still have the SDP part to deal with which is going back to the DM now, I don't know why they didn't include that in the original overpayment but I'll deal with that when it comes and enjoy (hopefully) a few stress free days for the first time in 6 months

[MissyNA]

Hi there,

 

I tried to reply to your message but to no avail, I can only do so if posted so many times.

 

Thanks for message, I really appreciated and I very happy for you also - at least there is some of us winning cases.

 

I don't think I have ever been so stressed in my entire life and it has seriously affected my health, they either do not understand how this can seriously effect someone or simply do not care.

 

I am jut so glad that I am the sort of person that has a great memory of dates and facts and also glad I kept all of the documented evidence from the hubby's long affair otherwise I would have been stuck for proof on that side of things, but also, if it wasn't for my Dr, HV, police reports etc there would have been nothing to back me up.

 

I have even decided to post even the simplistic of letters by recorded del from now so I have any evidence I need if reqd, that is how paro this whole ordeal has made me.

 

And once again, thanks for your message and happy you won too - yay lol x

[Ladychubbs]

Well done I'm going through the same I'm just waiting for my tribunal date.