Thames water-Moorcroft debt collector-Asking lodger to pay debt

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'll stick with my earlier recommendation ''prove it'' letter to Mooorcroft.

 

Not enough to allege harassment imo.

[bowcreek]

bowcreek mentioned about info on his/her credit file in post 1, I am not aware that water companies register an account with CRA's , mine certainly isn't but I'm not with TW. So I would suggest checking this to make sure.

 

bowcreek has also moved out of the house and never had an account with TW so why bother doing anything at all? As the landlord advised, I think I would ignore them!

 

Were you on the electoral roll whilst you were living at the address bowcreek? If you were, this is most probably how Moorcroft got your name and wrote to you hoping you would pay up!

 

Thanks Dotty50! I never filled up any electoral registration form. The only entity which should have my address is my Bank, or gym etc. I might have also filled up some offers etc. here and there or promotional cards - which anybody can do anytime though.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

From experience with others water account it appears that some Water providers only report if there is a problem with an

account and in particular will post GAIN data.

[bowcreek]

From experience with others water account it appears that some Water providers only report if there is a problem with an

account and in particular will post GAIN data.

 

Sorry - didn't understand what you mean Brigadier?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry - didn't understand what you mean Brigadier?

 

One of the biggest problems Water providers have is people moving house without paying outstanding

accounts the company will then post ''Gone Away'' (Gain) information on credit reference files together

with the details of the delinquent account.

[Dotty50]

In view of what Brig has said above, you need to check your credit file.

 

if you are 100% sure that the water bill isn't in your name, I would contact TW and query it with them.

 

They will probably have to go through the usual security but the details will be for your old address and possibly your landlords name so see what happens. They may say it's not in your name so they're unable to discuss it with you.

 

If it turns out to be in your name then we need to go back to the drawing board as it may be that the landlord has given them your details, but if that was the case, you would have received bills in your name from TW whilst you were at the address. Did you get a bill?

 

How long did you live at the address in question?

[bowcreek]

In view of what Brig has said above, you need to check your credit file.

 

if you are 100% sure that the water bill isn't in your name, I would contact TW and query it with them.

 

They will probably have to go through the usual security but the details will be for your old address and possibly your landlords name so see what happens. They may say it's not in your name so they're unable to discuss it with you.

 

If it turns out to be in your name then we need to go back to the drawing board as it may be that the landlord has given them your details, but if that was the case, you would have received bills in your name from TW whilst you were at the address. Did you get a bill?

 

How long did you live at the address in question?

 

Good point ! Yes I vaguely remember that I saw one bill somewhere in Sept 2012 on my name but just overlooked it and forgot about it at all. So yes there might have been more bills after that one which I never saw..I got the debt letter from CWC in Dec 2012.

 

I lived at that address from May to Dec 2012.

 

Another question - How can main account holder (my landlord orginally) give someone's name / details to TW to transfer his water account to someone without that person's consent? Possible?

[bowcreek]

So the complete sequence of events is like that ..

 

May 2012 - Started living at this address...

 

Sept 2012 - A bill on my name received - Overlooked/forgot to mention about.

 

No bills seen after that.

 

Dec 2012 - Debt letter from CWC on my name. Spoke to Landlord and then also to CWC...gave them my mobile number. Can remember that they said the account is on my name since May or June..how they got my details or who made it transfer to my name - They didn't tell me.

 

left this house in end of Dec 2012

 

Apr 2013 - Started getting texts and automated calls from Moorcroft.

[Dotty50]

Hi bowcreek, do you still have the letter that was addressed to you from TW?

 

I can only think that your information was obtained from your landlord, if you didn't supply them with it but I would seriously question TW about transferring a bill into your name without you speaking to them!

 

The only landlord/tenant experience I have is with students (my children) and the utility bills were transferred into the students names by the students themselves as far as I know, but I will check this though to make sure.

 

But you actually lodged in the house with your landlord didn't you so as a lodger? Does he still live there?

 

Do you still have the signed paper that the landlord did confirming that your rent included the bills?

 

Have you had any other utilities chasing you for payment? Gas, Electric, Council tax?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Dotty50

[bowcreek]

Hi bowcreek, do you still have the letter that was addressed to you from TW?

 

Yes. It was from CWC.

 

I can only think that your information was obtained from your landlord, if you didn't supply them with it but I would seriously question TW about transferring a bill into your name without you speaking to them!

 

Not sure how they got it. But should I call TW again to know how they got it? Does it really matter now? Wouldn't I take a detour from my original motive - Get this mess out of my life...

 

But you actually lodged in the house with your landlord didn't you so as a lodger? Does he still live there?

 

Do you still have the signed paper that the landlord did confirming that your rent included the bills?

 

Have you had any other utilities chasing you for payment? Gas, Electric, Council tax?

 

Yes I have copies of all the agreements we had (contract was revised every 2 months) with signature of both landlord and myself. It does mention that all utility bills like water bills, electric, gas and wireless are included in the rent".

 

No one else has been chasing me for anything. Gas and electricity were top up type connections.

[Dotty50]

Yes. It was from CWC.

 

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here? I asked if you had a letter addressed to you from Thames Water, not CWC (the DCA)

Not sure how they got it. But should I call TW again to know how they got it? Does it really matter now? Wouldn't I take a detour from my original motive - Get this mess out of my life...

 

As I previously advised, ring Thames Water, thats what I would do and I think that is the quickest way to get the 'mess out of your life' You're assuming that TW do have your details, it may only be CWC?

 

Yes I have copies of all the agreements we had (contract was revised every 2 months) with signature of both landlord and myself. It does mention that all utility bills like water bills, electric, gas and wireless are included in the rent".

 

No one else has been chasing me for anything. Gas and electricity were top up type connections.

 

If that's the case, then there's nothing to get stressed about IMHO, you have been given lots of ideas/advice what to do and in 99% of cases, we (CAG) would not advise you to pick up the phone, but you're not ringing the DCA you are ringing TW.

 

The only mistake you made was giving the DCA your mobile but there's no point in worrying about that now.

[bowcreek]

The letter I got was from CWC....not from Thames Water.

 

Sorry - but since I saw a bill in Sept issued on my name (which I just didn't bother to take seriously), does it not mean that account IS now on my name?

 

Dotty50 - What do I need to ask TW by calling them? Is that to explain the whole situation to them in simple terms or asking how they got my details on this water account?

[DonkeyB]

Ask them why the account was switched to your name! That simple.

[bowcreek]

On call with TW

[bowcreek]

They say that in cases where landlord or the account holder doesn't repond to them - they can get the information about whoever lives in the property by sending someone to the property or through council and many other sources...!!

 

For my particular case its not like they were passed on the details by someone...

[bowcreek]

When I insisted that they need to tell me how excatly they got my details and its my right to know each every details they have about me - The lady on phone had put me on hold for a min and came back saying - We first reached Experian who got your details from Voters Roll Register !! (But I never registered myself there .. !)

 

She also mentioned that we in such "landlord tenant dispute" we advise to send over the tenancy agreements or other evidences to show for what period you stayed in the property so that we can just charge you for the duration you stayed in.

 

On which I said - But what if the tenant lives with resident landlord? she replied - I would still suggest you send over such agreement which you hold with your landlord which mention that the tenant's agreement stated that the rent was inc. water charges.

 

As per them the account has been on my name since June 2012.

 

 

What shold be my course of action now Guys ? Please help.

[DonkeyB]

Er, they had no right to access any of your data – and clearly they are lying if you were never on the electoral roll there. Did you record this?

 

You must complain to the ICO about this.

 

I think we need a very strongly worded letter to TW...

[DonkeyB]

And there was no landlord-tenant dispute!

 

I think an SAR to Thames Water may be in order. Could cause them a lot of trouble.

[Dotty50]

When I insisted that they need to tell me how excatly they got my details and its my right to know each every details they have about me - The lady on phone had put me on hold for a min and came back saying - We first reached Experian who got your details from Voters Roll Register !! (But I never registered myself there .. !)

 

She also mentioned that we in such "landlord tenant dispute" we advise to send over the tenancy agreements or other evidences to show for what period you stayed in the property so that we can just charge you for the duration you stayed in.

 

On which I said - But what if the tenant lives with resident landlord? she replied - I would still suggest you send over such agreement which you hold with your landlord which mention that the tenant's agreement stated that the rent was inc. water charges.

 

As per them the account has been on my name since June 2012.

 

 

What shold be my course of action now Guys ? Please help.

 

Is this the result of you making a call to TW today?

 

TW have asked you to prove that your tenancy as a lodger included all bills and you state that you have this proof so all you need to do is let them have copies.

 

I do agree with DonkeyB about writing a letter of complaint, however when an Electoral form is completed (annually?) one of the questions you are asked is 'Does anyone else live in the property over the age of 18'. If your landlord has completed this honestly, then your name would have been put on the form.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Dotty50

[bowcreek]

I this the result of you making a call to TW today?

 

TW have asked you to prove that your tenancy as a lodger included all bills and you state that you have this proof so all you need to do is let them have copies.

 

I do agree with DonkeyB about writing a letter of complaint, however when an Electoral form is completed (annually?) one of the questions you are asked is 'Does anyone else live in the property over the age of 18'. If your landlord has completed this honestly, then your name would have been put on the form.

 

Thanks DonkeyB and Dotty50 ! Should I now send them all my lodger agreements for the whole duration of my stay in that property alongwith a letter of complaint having details of the whole situation? Should this be just sent to TW?

 

Cheers

[Dotty50]

Only send copies and keep your originals very safe until the matter is sorted. How many do you have? You were only at the house for a few months, May to December 2012.

 

I would ask Thames Water if they will accept the copies via fax or email (if you have the facility do do either) if you haven't, then send the copies in the post but send recorded delivery so that you have proof of sending and you can get proof of receipt from the Royal Mail website a few days after it has been sent.

 

I wouldn't bother with the letter of complaint yet, wait until the issue has been resolved as you will have a complete picture to write to them about.

[2Grumpy]

If you are paying for the recorded delivery, why not include a subject access request in the same envelope?

[bowcreek]

Only send copies and keep your originals very safe until the matter is sorted. How many do you have? You were only at the house for a few months, May to December 2012.

 

I would ask Thames Water if they will accept the copies via fax or email (if you have the facility do do either) if you haven't, then send the copies in the post but send recorded delivery so that you have proof of sending and you can get proof of receipt from the Royal Mail website a few days after it has been sent.

 

I wouldn't bother with the letter of complaint yet, wait until the issue has been resolved as you will have a complete picture to write to them about.

 

Thanks Dotty50. I would prefer sending them e-mail. During my conversation lady from TW gave me the e-mail address to send the documents to.

 

And yes I did record that conversation. But would first start with simple letter to them alongwith my copies of my lodger agreements as evidence that my rent was inc water bills and other utility bills.

 

Brigadier - Can I ask for your help now ? Would you be able to draft a formal letter for me please?

 

Will post the lodger agreement I have shortly. I hope that can be treated as a valid proof by TW.

[bowcreek]

[ATTACH][/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]43094[/ATTACH]

Edited April 12, 2013 by bowcreek

[ncm-000]

[ATTACH][/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]43094[/ATTACH]

 

Too small - unreadable.

 

Read and comply with instructions on how to attach a pdf.

 

The Brig will not be able to help you if he cant read the letter

 

Instructions from dx100uk

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates. {DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN]

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites [http://docupub.com/pdfconvert/]

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files