My Newlyn Saga - my old CTAX upon parents address?

[missfriendly]

Thought I'd share this - more for the sake of sharing, although any advice appreciated.

 

My parents received a visit from a Newlyn bailiff at their address for a council tax debt I'd forgotten about (with a liability order I believed I had paid, but I hadn't). The letter said it was their third visit and he had come to seize goods - however no correspondence had been received at the address prior to the visit and the bailiff did not ring the doorbell or knock the door.

 

By chance, my parents solicitor was present at the time, and also witnessed the bailiff come down the drive, push a letter through the mailbox, and not knock the door. He put the walking levy on her BMW - which was pure comedy, really.

 

Note - I do not live at my parents' address! But they let me know, so I paid Harlow Council what I owed them and contacted Newlyn.

 

Newlyn claimed that they had visited twice before, and wanted to charge me around £160 in fees for these visits. My parents are over 80, so they do not go out much, and they knew for certain that they were in the house on the dates that Newlyn claimed the bailiff had visited the first and second time - but no correspondence had been left, and the doorbell hadn't been rung, and the door had not been knocked on these dates.

 

5 or 6 letters later, Newlyn provide me with the GPS reports for the bailiff that clearly show that his vehicle was right outside my parents' house on the dates they claim the bailiff visited. However, my parents are willing to go as far as making a legally sworn statement that they were in the house on those dates and times and that the bailiff made no attempt to contact them or leave any notice of his visit. They know they were in, and they know they had no visitors.

 

Newlyn said the onus was on me to prove that the bailiff did not visit, but refused to accept an affidavit from my parents as evidence, as it 'could be biased' (because affidavits are just worthless???). They're asking me to prove that someone didn't visit a house I don't even live in.

 

No correspondence had been received at any point before that alleged 3rd visit - from either Harlow Council who I owed the debt to, or Newlyn Plc. I wrote to Harlow Council regarding the matter of the fees Newlyn were chasing, and they never replied.

 

This is what I've done:

1. I've complained to the court that Newlyn would not accept an affidavit from my parents,

2. I've complained to the local council omnibudsman that Harlow Council were avoiding entering into correspondence with me regarding the matter.

3. I've asked Newlyn Plc to provide me with copies of all correspondence they claim they sent prior to the visits, and the correspondence that the bailiff allegedly left on his first and second visits.

 

Anyone with any similar stories? What was the outcome?

[wonkeydonkey]

You seem to have everything under control....we always suggest you gather together a paper trail and to do that you need to send for a breakdown of Newlyns fee's....see below.....also contact the Council and ask (with pen at the ready)

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

also a good idea to ask what address has been given to the bailiff for enforcement?-to see if they have actually given the LO address? a further tip is to send everything to either side by recorded/signed for post ...then let them try to say they have never received anything (as they are prone to do)

 

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

WD

[missfriendly]

Thanks WD! I do actually have a breakdown of charges, forgot to mention that bit, which is when the apparent 1st and 2nd visit fees came to light.

 

I'm sending them my correspondence by email, and always get a paper acknowledgement within a couple of days for each email I send them. I think that's quite sweet.

 

And oddly, after writing that message on the board just a couple of hours ago, I found a letter from my Dad dated November 2011 in which he told me that Harlow Council had sent correspondence to their address, he'd phoned them up and told them I'd left the UK and no longer lived with them (all true), and they'd told him to return it to them marked 'Out Of Country'. Matched it up with a telephone call made on their bill to Harlow Council on 17th November. So it looks like it could be Harlow Council's fault for passing the file to Newlyn with my parents address on, seeing as they knew I wasn't living there at the time.

 

I'd still rather get Newlyn to admit that their bailiffs never left any correspondence on the dates they claim, though - that would just 'feel' better...

[unclebulgaria67]

Newlyn will admit nothing. GPS reports ? How are these actually generated ? Can they be generated after the date ? I think there is a sufficient body of evidence that bailiffs have not visited on some of the occasions they say they have.

 

In this situation, I would suggest that you pay the council what they are due and perhaps Newlyn will have to accept no collecting any fees for this account.

[missfriendly]

Hi Uncle Bulgaria -- thanks for the advice - I paid Harlow Council the same day as the "third" (first) bailiff visit. They have failed to answer any correspondence from me regarding the matter since.

 

These GPS reports look geniune enough - it would certainly be a lot to fake for £160... unless they are that desperate to save face in light of the lies that The Times exposed them for last year.

[sgtbush]

Newlyn will admit nothing. GPS reports ? How are these actually generated ? Can they be generated after the date ? I think there is a sufficient body of evidence that bailiffs have not visited on some of the occasions they say they have.

 

In this situation, I would suggest that you pay the council what they are due and perhaps Newlyn will have to accept no collecting any fees for this account.

 

gprs reports are generated when the infomation is inputted into a PDA device, you put the ref number in and it automatically puts your world-wide co-ordinates on it, thus proving you were at the property

it however does not prove that the bailifff knocked on the door

[unclebulgaria67]

gprs reports are generated when the infomation is inputted into a PDA device, you put the ref number in and it automatically puts your world-wide co-ordinates on it, thus proving you were at the property

it however does not prove that the bailifff knocked on the door

 

So the PDA would have connected to a database at the time, so the record was created at the time ? It is not possible to fiddle around and manufacture a record after the event ? I have had some involvement with databases and records management. It is amazing how you can fiddle around with data, if you know how to.

 

Not saying this has happened in this situation and it may be that there was no knock on the door or note left about the visit.

[tomtubby]

I am a bit rushed for time right now but is the complaint concerning a Levy being made upon a car that is not yours?

 

If so, then you MUST refer to the recent highly critical report from the LGO against Blaby District Council as this report makes clear that a levy must not be made on a vehicle without first undertaking a DVLA check.

 

If the car does not belong to you then ALL fees associated with the invalid levy MUST be removed.

 

I would NEVER suggest that a letter be sent to the bailiff company. Instead, a letter should be sent to the local authority as they are wholly responsible for the levy and fee of THEIR AGENT.

 

If the levy is removed then the only fee that is applicable is £24.59 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made).

[missfriendly]

Thanks for your help everyone - received a letter today saying they've removed all charges from my file - but they still claim they acted in accordance with procedure... blah-blah-blah. And no mention of a refund for what I've paid already, either.

 

Feel like I should take this further and complain, so a full investigation is made as to why the bailiff left no correspondence and made no attempt to ring the doorbell or knock the door. Of course, there's the small matter of a walking levy being made without a DVLA check as well.

 

I've written and asked when I can expect a refund, and in the meantime, Harlow Council is dealing with my complaint against how they handled it, too. Happy with the outcome, but there's a lot more I feel should be done!

[ploddertom]

Don't let it drop, have you involved your local Councillor(s)?

[missfriendly]

I'm ex-pat at the moment, so I don't have a local anything... going to see what Harlow Council come back with, then maybe take it to the High Court Enforcement Officers’ Association if it's the only way to get to the bottom of it.

 

I was lucky in finding out they accepted email correspondence, so I was able to put the pressure on for answers regularly and cheaply. It's enquiries at newlynplc.co.uk if anyone stumbles upon this - just mark it for the attention of the complaints department, you'll get a paper acknowledgement in a few days.

 

To be continued...

[ploddertom]

I'm ex-pat at the moment, so I don't have a local anything... going to see what Harlow Council come back with, then maybe take it to the High Court Enforcement Officers’ Association if it's the only way to get to the bottom of it.

 

Council Tax has nothing to do with High Court Enforcement Officers. A complaint against a Bailiff should be first made to the company he works for & once you have exhausted that route their trade body is CIVEA but you have to remember they are funded by themselves and I don't know of anyone who has had a complaint upheld by them!

I was lucky in finding out they accepted email correspondence, so I was able to put the pressure on for answers regularly and cheaply. It's enquiries at newlynplc.co.uk if anyone stumbles upon this - just mark it for the attention of the complaints department, you'll get a paper acknowledgement in a few days.

 

To be continued...

 

PT

[tomtubby]

From what you have written it would appear that you had paid Newlyn the amount claimed which included the fees associated with a levy upon a car that is not yours. If so, this is WRONG and you are entitled a full refund.

 

Can you post details of the fees charged and what has been paid?

 

Always remember that the local authority are WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for the levy and fees charged by their agents. It is for this reason that a complaint should be sent to the LOCAL AUTHORITY

[missfriendly]

Hi Tom,

 

I paid Newlyn 3 installments of £5... which I'd like back, just to cause them inconvenience and as a point of principle, more than wanting it back.

 

Rough breakdown, without having it to hand, was 3 visits / 1 levy / some schedule charge. They wanted £160 in fees in total, and eventually bullied me into that payment plan... now they've written off the outstanding amount. So I guess I never got round to paying the invalid levy on the vehicle part (I did quote the LGO Blaby thing on my correspondence to Harlow). I just made partial payment for the visits that they never made.

 

I'll keep CIVEA in mind for sure thanks, PT. Such an unprofessional company. they should have some kind of penalty imposed on them.

[ploddertom]

they should have some kind of penalty imposed on them.

 

Hanging by the neck springs to mind.

[old bill]

Hanging by the neck springs to mind.

 

Nah. They'd probably enjoy it.

[brassnecked]

Nah. They'd probably enjoy it.

 

They deserve bastinada, hanging by the ankles then being caned on the soles of the feet with a tamban switch, (Flexible cane similar to a birch rod as used for corporal punishment in the Isle of Man until fairly recently) and made to run a mile afterwards. they wouldn't repeat their cheating after that.

 

Whoa, I am getting sadistic, best way to deal is do 'em for fraud and lock 'em up.