Uninsured car in court 4th oct

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Then surely this must be a guilty plea with a submission of mitigation??

[havinastella]

I would SUGGEST that you attend the Court hearing to explain. If you do not attend, whatever you write to the Court will not matter one iota.

[Surfer01]

Then surely this must be a guilty plea with a submission of mitigation??

 

Agreed! Nothing to do with a SORN and insurance, but taxed and no insurance.

[crem]

Wrong!! All vehicles MUST be CONTINUOSLY INSURED!!!!! Where ever and how so ever kept/stored.

 

 

 

 

Please provide evidence Brigadier.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Please provide evidence Brigadier.

 

Too late it's all been dealt with!!!!!!

[vax2002]

what exactly have you been charged with and I would drop the I am at work line like hot bricks, if you drive for a living you wont be if you are convicted for no insurance as no company insurance will touch you with a barge pole. Get this wrong and your job will follow.

On your summons it will say charge : what offence have you been charged with ?

If the vehicle was off road, then having no insurance or Sorn is a DVLA penalty offence, it does not render you guilty of driving with no insurance.

Come back with some real information and you may get some real help.

[Old Cogger]

Any chance ringing DVLA Monday??? ask the question.

[Raykay]

If the vehicle was off road, then having no insurance or Sorn is a DVLA penalty offence, it does not render you guilty of driving with no insurance.

 

The offence is being the registered keeper of a motor vehicle that does not meet the insurance requirements, contrary to s.144A, Road Traffic Act 1988.

[vax2002]

Plead not guilty: that the offer of a fixed penalty option was not used.

Prosecution is only for those not paying the fixed penalty which is £100

The court will look at why the fixed penalty option was not used.

[Surfer01]

Plead not guilty: that the offer of a fixed penalty option was not used.

Prosecution is only for those not paying the fixed penalty which is £100

The court will look at why the fixed penalty option was not used.

 

That is very bad advice as the OP is guilty and has admitted to having no insurance, however they can plead guilty with mitigating circumstances.

[vax2002]

Admitted to who ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

DVLA, this has nothing to do with a road side stop car supposed to be sorned, but appears not to be so insurance has to be paid.

FP not relevant.

[vax2002]

this would not absolve him of a defence and the need for prosecution to prove the charge.

To be 100% honest the information is vague provided and I would recommend given the seriousness of the charge the OP seeks paid for legal advice, where the charge and circumstances can be solved in to understanding any defence.

The DVLA fixed penalty should have been applied for a claimed procedural error, a good solicitor will stop them kicking it over the grass to a driving without charge.

If defended there is every chance DVLA wont turn up or offer evidence, they do have a reputation for doing so, if admitted the penalty will be the same bar a few court costs.

My advice on consideration, seek correct legal representation.

[Surfer01]

Not sure why you would want to defend something where you have definitely broken the law and know it which is why I suggested a plea of guilty with mitigating circumstances and throwing yourself on the mercy of the courts and hope that you have an understanding judge.

[vax2002]

because, there may be a defence available with more information provided and no you dont get less for owning up, you get the book thrown straight in to your teeth to make up for everyone who does get found not proven.

[Raykay]

FP not relevant.

 

s.144C, Road Traffic Act 1988:

 

Fixed penalty notices

Where on any occasion the Secretary of State has reason to believe that a person has committed an offence under section 144A of this Act, the Secretary of State may give the person a notice offering him the opportunity of discharging any liability to conviction for that offence by payment of a fixed penalty to the Secretary of State.

[Aretnap]

For keeping an uninsured vehicle the OP can expect a fine in the low hundreds an no points. The cost of legal representation will likely be greater than the fine, therefore it's pointless unless there is a good chance of winning and reclaiming costs.

 

Driving without insurance is a non-starter unless (a) it's on the summons and (b) the prosecution have evidence that the car was actually being driven. I don't know why anyone thinks the OP is likely to be charged with it, but if he is the summons will mention Section 143 of the Road Traffic Act. If the charge is merely keeping an uninsured vehicle then it will be under Section 144A of the Road Traffic Act.

 

I'm not convinced that the OP has definitely broken the law as he thinks that he did SORN the car, and if he did SORN it correctly then AIUI that discharges his obligation, notwithstanding that the DVLA may have cocked up and failed to record it correctly. However he seems rather unsure of exactly what he did and when, so if the DVLA have no record of the SORN then I don't much fancy his chances of persuading the court that it was their fault, not his.

 

The law says that the DVLA may offer a fixed penalty, not that they must, so if they didn't it doesn't amount to a defence.

 

In the absence of a defence, a guilty plea will reduce the fine by a third, and significantly reduce any order of costs made against the OP. However, given that the hearing is tomorrow if he hasn't sent in his plea yet he's going to have to turn up, or else he'll be convicted in his absence and will get no discount for a guilty plea.

[Bang!]

The vehicle insurance law means that the registered keeper of a vehicle must keep it insured unless they've made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN). If you're not insured and haven't made a SORN, you could face a penalty. Find out what the law means for you...

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl

[crem]

The point that seems to be still unclear here, is why did the OP think he had declared SORN and what evidnece can he come up with to support this.

 

If he can demonstrate that he believed SORN was recorded correctly (or at least that he had done his bit even if DVLA haven't done theirs) then the charge of driving uninsured (or keeping an uninsured vehicle) would be negated.

[dw190]

Brigadier2jcs is absolutely right,,,,Law has changed

 

No he's not.

 

It was in 2011 that it changed to what is in the link above and here:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&ssDocName=DG_186696

To help fight against uninsured driving, a new scheme is being introduced from early 2011, known as Continuous Insurance Enforcement.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Beleiving a SORN is in place wont help, there is a reminder for the owner/keeper to notify the DVLA is they do not receive confrmation with in 6 weeks, so no defence really!!!

[Old Cogger]

Just pay the £100.00 and save yourself stress and added charges, Phillipis will be along soon to chase you else, up to you though, is it worth the problems.

[Lillibelle]

SORN=Off road ,,untaxed..uninsured..check with DVLA that SORN has been done..simple...and thats me done on this thread

[Old Cogger]

SORN=Off road ,,untaxed..uninsured..check with DVLA that SORN has been done..simple...and thats me done on this thread

 

 

Also if at court and their rep comes over which they no doubt will could try:- The Necessary forms were sent on/about to the DVLA at Swansea being the Executive Agency for the Department of Transport.

 

Then mention as per Section 7 Interpretation Act 1978 (delivery Method).

Edited October 4, 2012 by Old Cogger

[Aretnap]

Beleiving a SORN is in place wont help, there is a reminder for the owner/keeper to notify the DVLA is they do not receive confrmation with in 6 weeks, so no defence really!!!

Not sure about that. The DVLA would like you to contact them if you don't receive the confirmation, but they seem to have no legal basis for insisting on it. My understanding is that your obligation is to inform the DVLA of the fact that the car is off road, not to hold their hands and make sure they record the declaration on their system correctly. At least, that's what a judge seems to have decided here.

 

In practice of course, proving that the lack of a SORN record on the DVLA's system is down to their incompetence rather than yours is not always easy.