new universal credit

[count orlok]

that seems better in some respects than the DLA assessment.

 

Thats based on the fact that ATOS would honestly apply points tho.

 

Thats the problem; Under the new rules what I lose in mobility I should gain in care. I'll lose LRC but should get Standard rate, and I'll lose HRM but should get standard rate, so income should be about the same. Only trouble is I'll lose my car, but then if I don't lose out finacially, my wife could use her DLA to get a car and I'd use mine for fuel and taxis when we can't use car.

 

BUT and a big but it depends on ATOS being honest, and i don't thinkthey knbow how to be.

[count orlok]

I kept my Jalopy (baby FIAT) and put it in a garage well over tens years ago, it needs some work to start it again,but its has no rust, looks like I might need it again.

 

The test for IB was harder than the test for ESA in theory, but once the ATOS factor is applied ESA becomes a lot harder. You can bet the ATOS factor will do the same for PIP.

Edited October 5, 2012 by count orlok

[Crazy Diamond]

Ah but remember, YOU might think that under the new qualifiers you'd pass, but this is all based on first being assessed by ATOS.

 

Not only that, but i have found out today that your application for PIP will be done, wait for it, over the PHONE. The DWP will then decide whether they think you qualify and then and only then send you the form which you send back with all the evidence etc... at which point the DM will decide whether or not to send you for ATOs assessment (take a guess?).

 

Add to that that even if "disallowed" (you no longer get turned down, did you know?), you have to ask for reconsideration by the DWP, who do not have a set time limit to carry it out, and can no longer go to appeal until the DWP has reconsidered and said no again... Perfect storm or what?

 

Here's the link to the "Claimant Journey" (their words, not mine!):

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-advisers-claimant-journey-text.pdf

 

Try not to dislocate your neck in disbelief anyone!

Edited October 5, 2012 by Crazy Diamond
adding link

[count orlok]

That's going to be alot of fun. I often forget what i'm saying or what the question is I'm answering. If that makes sense!

[Nystagmite]

Not only that, but i have found out today that your application for PIP will be done, wait for it, over the PHONE.

 

One issue I have as a result of my disability, is making myself understood through speech. I can and do talk. But not everyone (including my own parents) understand me. What happens there, then? We don't have a text phone. A reasonable adjustment is to allow me to do it via paper.

 

Another issue with phone is that you can't see how someone is. So, if I go to a medical with dirty clothes, it's clear that I have some sort of issue with checking how clean my clothes are. You can't see that by talking to me over the phone. Some people have anxiety based disabilities. You can see this in some people. You can't always tell (although, you might be able to hear it in their voice?) by talking to them.

 

In theory, I should get the higher rates on both. Probably won't happen though.

[count orlok]

The phone will probably be routed via a polygraph, but then that wouldn't work for most on cetain drugs anyway. perhaps we could all be called on the Jeremy Kyle show, he seems to have it in for benefit claiments

[Crazy Diamond]

Yes, people who are not able to use phones will be given a different way (paper, I would think).

 

Still, I was talking to a mate earlier and laying it out for him made me realise how ridiculous this is going to be (this from a government which wants LESS bureaucracy and LESS interference of the state, ah!):

 

1st you phone DWP.

You have to go through all the menus.

Then you're on hold for... however long it takes for someone to be free.

Someone finally speaks to you, you have to clear security of course.

Then they ask you for the info which you'll need to claim PIP.

They then decide whether you are worthy of a paper claim form to be sent out or not (in other words they can turn you down flat there and then!)

You get your paper claim form, fill it in, send it back with all the evidence.

A decision maker then decides whether a) you've passed straight away, or if b) you should have an assessment or if c) you failed straight away. (take a guess at which option is most likely?)

If b, you must have assessment.

Atos sends results back to DM

DM decides if you qualify for PIP or not.

If not, b and c go through the same next stage, which is

Asking DWP for re-consideration.

Remember, you can NO LONGER go straight to appeal, you MUST ask for re-consideration first.

DWP re-considers your case. IMPORTANT: They do NOT have a timescale in which to do this. At all. And you can not got to tribunal until they have.

Once they have re-considered, with NO time limit for them to do this,

Then and only then, you can lodge an appeal to tribunal.

 

Kafka would be proud, this is fiendishly cunning. Ask yourselves how many sick and disabled people will be able to put themselves through this bureaucratic nightmare? How many will give up? And then ask yourselves if that may no tbe the whole reason for doing this?

I

[Nystagmite]

That is ridiculous, especially:

They then decide whether you are worthy of a paper claim form to be sent out or not (in other words they can turn you down flat there and then!)

 

These people aren't (to my knowledge) medically trained. How can they decide whether you may qualify? I mean, you'll just say I have these diagnoses and these are my needs. When / if you get the paper form, you send in evidence to back up your claim.

 

Given what happened with my ESA claim on the phone, I don't trust them:

I was asked what was written on my fit note. I read out my diagnoses. (Nystagmus, Autism, Optic Atrophy, Hyperacusis and Irlens Syndrome) I was asked what Autism was. There are roughly 30 thousand times more people living with Autism than there are Optic Atrophy in the UK. I am still stunned I was asked what Autism was. I was talking to someone who helps run a local branch of National Autistic Society (NAS) and explained what happened. She was not pleased.

[Crazy Diamond]

Well, if you're going to ask reasonable questions like that, you're not expecting the system to work do you? Bloody plebs, always arguing the wisdom of their betters! Learn your place!

[estellyn]

well i hope the disabled athletes are reading this, wheelchair athletes are going to lose on mobility, we all need to turn up in motorized wheelchairs...i have fought long and hard to stay out of a bl**dy chair, yet this lot seem determined in order to access benefits to get me in one...despite my esa ATOS assessor putting in report that i can go to work if i use a non existent wheelchair...what a joke

 

I've been reading, (what else is there to do when my husband and kittens are asleep?) and you get 12 points (enhanced rate) for PIP if you can propel the (imaginary) wheelchair yourself. The problem comes for those who can walk 'up to 50 metres' using say crutches, or those who can just walk 50 metres, who would now be getting high rate mobility.

[estellyn]

That is ridiculous, especially:

 

 

These people aren't (to my knowledge) medically trained. How can they decide whether you may qualify? I mean, you'll just say I have these diagnoses and these are my needs. When / if you get the paper form, you send in evidence to back up your claim.

 

Given what happened with my ESA claim on the phone, I don't trust them:

I was asked what was written on my fit note. I read out my diagnoses. (Nystagmus, Autism, Optic Atrophy, Hyperacusis and Irlens Syndrome) I was asked what Autism was. There are roughly 30 thousand times more people living with Autism than there are Optic Atrophy in the UK. I am still stunned I was asked what Autism was. I was talking to someone who helps run a local branch of National Autistic Society (NAS) and explained what happened. She was not pleased.

 

I suppose it would be like we used to do on the benefit helpline - ask questions re the minimum qualifying conditions, and if these are confirmed then send out a form. and anyone on DLA automatically gets a form.

[RaeUK]

... those who can just walk 50 metres, who would now be getting high rate mobility.

 

Yay! That's me! Finally got there. Oh, hang on a minute...

Boy, did I choose the wrong time to get sick. Once again I find myself falling through the gaps. There's no way I could use a manual wheelchair, well, downhill maybe with stopping optional. My mobility would certainly be enhanced by an electric one but my health would deteriorate faster. A wheelchair is an absolute no no until I get into the very last stage of the disease when, to be honest, going anywhere at all would not be on the agenda.

[estellyn]

Yay! That's me! Finally got there. Oh, hang on a minute...

Boy, did I choose the wrong time to get sick. Once again I find myself falling through the gaps. There's no way I could use a manual wheelchair, well, downhill maybe with stopping optional. My mobility would certainly be enhanced by an electric one but my health would deteriorate faster. A wheelchair is an absolute no no until I get into the very last stage of the disease when, to be honest, going anywhere at all would not be on the agenda.

 

Well, on a virtual wheelchair test you'd score 15 points - can you repeat a 50 metre walk within a reasonable time frame?

 

Also Iike to know where all these people who can walk 50 metres and no longer getting high/enhanced rate help are going? I mean they can walk 50 metres, but that doesn't get most people to the nearest bus stop. They won't get enough money for taxis, and can't walk far enough to use a bus - so how do they get out of the house (aapart from 25 metres there and back). Baffling.

[worried33]

Ah but remember, YOU might think that under the new qualifiers you'd pass, but this is all based on first being assessed by ATOS.

 

Not only that, but i have found out today that your application for PIP will be done, wait for it, over the PHONE. The DWP will then decide whether they think you qualify and then and only then send you the form which you send back with all the evidence etc... at which point the DM will decide whether or not to send you for ATOs assessment (take a guess?).

 

Add to that that even if "disallowed" (you no longer get turned down, did you know?), you have to ask for reconsideration by the DWP, who do not have a set time limit to carry it out, and can no longer go to appeal until the DWP has reconsidered and said no again... Perfect storm or what?

 

Here's the link to the "Claimant Journey" (their words, not mine!):

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-advisers-claimant-journey-text.pdf

 

Try not to dislocate your neck in disbelief anyone!

 

I am already well aware, I had a ATOS assessment earlier this year for DLA. Report full of fiction.

[flumps1976]

The information abot PIP that we had in work this last couple of weeks is that nobody will automaticall be transferred from DLA to PIP and the forms won't be sent out automatically.

Even if there is a current award for PIP (when they start the migration exercise) if the customer doesn't apply for PIP when they are selected for migration then their award for DLA will cease and there will be no claim in existence for PIP.

[count orlok]

With universal credit will they recognise the current rules for people over pensionable age? There will be many couples who are at present getting PC who will lose it when UC comes out. With UC the couple rate will be about £111, under the present rules whichever benefit one claims if one of the couple are over the age for PC the couple allowance will be about double. Also will the bedroom tax and council tax be treated as if the couple are of working or pension age.

 

As a final thought on this point a couple on UC will be a lot worse off than single person on PC.

 

Can we keep this thread for UC and if necessary start another for PIP. I know I am part at fault here as I have posted re PIP.

 

Cheers.

[estellyn]

The information abot PIP that we had in work this last couple of weeks is that nobody will automaticall be transferred from DLA to PIP and the forms won't be sent out automatically.

Even if there is a current award for PIP (when they start the migration exercise) if the customer doesn't apply for PIP when they are selected for migration then their award for DLA will cease and there will be no claim in existence for PIP.

 

That's pretty awful.

[flumps1976]

tbh it appears to be in line with all the other changes due to be implemented