Advice needed regarding levy on car

[jon555]

Hi

 

This is my first post & I'm looking for some advice regarding a levy on a vehicle.

 

I have outstanding council tax from 2008 - 2009 of around £1500 that has been passed to Bristow & Sutor. I have tried to come to a payment arrangement on numerous occasions but can't afford anywhere near what they want me to pay & since they won't accept an amount I can afford, has remained unpaid.

In August 2011 a levy was made on a car that I am the registered keeper but my partner legally owns. I informed bailiffs that this was not owned by me, my partner provided a statutory dec to both council & bailiffs stating that the car belonged to her, which they said wasn't enough proof.

 

Bailiffs turned up again in Oct 2011 & added a van/abortive removal fee to the account even though they didn't turn up in a van. I wrote to the council to complain about this & in their reply they stated that they had spoken to Bristow & Sutor & they had said that a transit van had been sent & included the registration of a van. Now I know for certain that this never happened as I was in at the time of this visit but chose not to open door & saw him leave in a car. The bailiffs have never gained entry to my property to levy on any other goods other than my partners car so can't see how they could remove that even if they had come in a transit. When I questioned the council about this they stated in a reply that "the fee is incurred for 2 bailiffs to visit with a view of removing goods, it's not based on the type of vehicle used".

Surely that can't be right since they knew the only levy was on my partners car so why turn up in anything other than a vehicle transporter? and then charge ridiculous figures for it.

 

Anyhow after this happened we sent in a copy of receipt for car made out in her name and copy of her bank statement showing money being taken from her account on day of purchase but heard nothing back so sent in again. Didn't hear anything back or have any visits from bailiffs until April this year when they posted form stating removal team attended to remove goods & would be back, which I ignored. Turned up again yesterday whilst I was out & told partner that if I didn't pay off in full he would be back to remove car & if car not there then he would force entry to remove goods. Now I know he can't force entry as they have never gained entry before but what else can I do about the car? The car was only put in my name for insurance purposes & think I've more than proved its not mine, insurance comes out of partners account every month road tax was purchased online from her account & can show them this if need be but how much proof do they need? I thought a stat dec would have been enough in first place.

 

Does the levy still stand on the car as it was made over 12 months ago? No payment arrangement has been made & I've never signed anything, they've had plenty of time to remove & even charged a fee for it, is this now classed as a abandoned levy?

 

any help will be appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[brassnecked]

If they have not acted in all that time then I would argue the levy has been abandoned, but B & S will no doubt beg to differ, was partner resident when the debt was accrued as council tax is a joint liability, so the council can pursue one or both of you.

[jon555]

Hi

 

Thanks for reply, my partner was not living here at that time & only moved in last year.

 

The debt is 100% mine

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[hallowitch]

time to start the formal complaint route to the ceo of your council

 

ask yourself why they haven't removed the car because they know they cant a stat dec is a legal document and neither the bailiffs not the council can go against the court without some serious consequences

 

you should also make an offer of payment in writing to the council (and start making payments to the councils on-line)

 

you need to establish a payment history so you will be seen as a cant pay as not a wont pay

 

did you put your previous offers in writing

 

was the refusal of you payment offer in writing

[lookinforinfo]

First, don't pay the bailiffs or try to come to an arrangement with them. Most are cheats and liars and want you to make an arrangement with them that they know you cannot keep so

as to increase their own fees.

Instead, pay the council direct, either online, by cheque or cash at their offices.

 

The next thing you need is a copy of the Liability order from the bailiff to see whose name are on it. If just in your partners name, write to the Court complaining that the bailiffs are

refusing to accept that the car is not yours despite providing them with all your evidence and that they are using the car to add on hundreds in extra fees. It would be a help if you had

made a payment to the Council before you write to the Court [and advise the Court that you have made the payment and that you do want to resolve the matter but the more you

pay the bailiff in overinflated fees, the longer it will take to pay the Council].

[tomtubby]

The levy should not be vlaid after this considerable period of time. You need to also gain confirmation that all fees associated with this "levy" have also been removed.

 

I do not want to appear to be be critical of you but the problem that you will face is that the local authority will not be on your side at all becuse, this debt has been due since 2009. Bailiffs visited you in April and October 2011 and although you have said that the bailiff company refuse to accept a payment arrangment, you really should have at the very least, made payments instead to the local authority. To have not made any payments in the past year will not help your case.

 

How much is the vehicle worth?

[brassnecked]

Phone council, and ask

How many liability orders they hold for you (there may be more than one)

How much on each one

When were they obtained (date)

When were they passed to bailiffs for enforcement

then to the bailiff company the acme letter adapted to your case:

 

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

Has your partner dobe a Stat Dec about the car, if not do so now, and send Formal Complaint with a Notarised Copy of stat dec, stating levy is invalid, as it is on a third party motor, and no doubt someone will provide the link to several Ombudsman cases bl;asting councils for this very action by their bailiffs.

[jon555]

time to start the formal complaint route to the ceo of your council

 

ask yourself why they haven't removed the car because they know they cant a stat dec is a legal document and neither the bailiffs not the council can go against the court without some serious consequences

 

you should also make an offer of payment in writing to the council (and start making payments to the councils on-line)

 

you need to establish a payment history so you will be seen as a cant pay as not a wont pay

 

did you put your previous offers in writing

 

was the refusal of you payment offer in writing

 

 

I did complain to the ceo last year & it was just passed onto the council bailiff manager who refused to accept stat dec for car.

 

All offers I've tried to make have been over the phone, the council told me they couldn't accept any payment from me & that I had to deal with B & S, who would only accept a ridiculous amount each month that I would not have been able to afford. Since the council won't accept any payment from me & bailiffs will only accept amounts I can't afford it has remained unpaid.

 

Phone council, and ask

How many liability orders they hold for you (there may be more than one)

How much on each one

When were they obtained (date)

When were they passed to bailiffs for enforcement

 

I have just gone through some old paperwork that I requested from council & there are 2 separate accounts

 

£276.74 for 2009 - 2010

£859.81 for 2010 - 2011

 

Thank you for the letter template I will get one sent off to bailiffs today as bailiff told my partner yesterday that I owed over £1500

 

The levy should not be vlaid after this considerable period of time. You need to also gain confirmation that all fees associated with this "levy" have also been removed.

 

I do not want to appear to be be critical of you but the problem that you will face is that the local authority will not be on your side at all becuse, this debt has been due since 2009. Bailiffs visited you in April and October 2011 and although you have said that the bailiff company refuse to accept a payment arrangment, you really should have at the very least, made payments instead to the local authority. To have not made any payments in the past year will not help your case.

 

How much is the vehicle worth?

 

I don't think any fees have been removed for the levy as they said the stat dec was not enough to prove ownership, I will send letter to B & S today to find out what fees have been added.

 

The reason for non payment is the council told me that they could not accept any payment from me so don't know what to do if they won't let me make any payments. Before this I never had any arrears & always paid my council tax, I was made redundant in early 2009 & didn't want to claim job seekers allowance as I'd never claimed anything before & thought I would get back into work asap. After a while I did try to claim for council tax benefit but wouldn't let me because I wasn't claiming JSA. I really do want to pay this but they say they can't accept payments from me so really don't know what to do.

 

Car is worth About £2000

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[outlawla]

....All offers I've tried to make have been over the phone, the council told me they couldn't accept any payment from me & that I had to deal with B & S, who would only accept a ridiculous amount each month that I would not have been able to afford. Since the council won't accept any payment from me & bailiffs will only accept amounts I can't afford it has remained unpaid.....

 

 

 

....The reason for non payment is the council told me that they could not accept any payment from me so don't know what to do if they won't let me make any payments. Before this I never had any arrears & always paid my council tax, I was made redundant in early 2009 & didn't want to claim job seekers allowance as I'd never claimed anything before & thought I would get back into work asap. After a while I did try to claim for council tax benefit but wouldn't let me because I wasn't claiming JSA. I really do want to pay this but they say they can't accept payments from me so really don't know what to do.....

 

 

Under these circumstances it would appear quite reasonable that you have gone this period of time without paying anything towards what you owe. The reason you haven't paid anything during this time is entirely down to the council's intransigence.

 

What it seems you were not aware of, is the council has no authority to refuse payment. This is hardly your fault if the council lied to you by stating they can't take payment.

 

I would ask the council to put in writing that they have in the past, and are still refusing your offer of payment. You can, despite what they say, pay funds directly into the council's bank account, stating both your council tax account number and its bank account reference and sort code. They'll have no option but to accept this payment, if for example, you pay through their online payment service (if they have this facility) or internet banking.

Edited September 7, 2012 by outlawla

[hallowitch]

OHHH dear look likes your council and Bristow & Sutor don't adhere to legislation or they think legislation applies to everyone else except them

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/part/VIII/made

 

The Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) Order 1996

Notices

 

 

4. Where under an authorisation given by virtue of this Part a contractor is authorised to serve any notice which is required or authorised by the Regulations to be served on any person, the contractor may also be authorised—

 

(a)subject to articles 64, 65 and 66, to determine the form and the manner of service of the notice in question;

 

(b)to determine any period which is required or authorised by the Regulations to be specified in the notice; and

 

©where the notice requires the person on whom the notice is served to make a payment, to accept any amount paid in compliance with the notice.

[brassnecked]

You should offer payment to the council at the counter if and when they refuse get the drone on the counter to sign to the effect they are rerfusing paym,ent, then send in the Formal Complaint copied to CEO and MP, along with elected leader and councillor, atht they are unlawfully refusing a tendered payment.

[jon555]

Thanks for all the advice so far it is much appreciated

 

I took the advice & put a payment offer in writing & sent to the council, I also paid a first payment through the online payment service that outlawla mentioned.

Also sent a letter to B&S requesting info for all fees added & sent both letters last week & here's what happened.

 

Monday I received a letter from B&S dated 12th Sept, stating " Final chance to pay before case returned for further action" it mentioned in the letter that if I did not pay within 7 days then it would be returnrd to the council duly endorsed.

 

Today I received a breakdown of charges from B&S dated 17th Sept, the levy fee & van/abortive removal fee are still on there and haven't been removed even though the car the levy was on doesn't belong to me.

 

Also received another letter from B&S today regarding payment plan, which they say is unacceptable & want me to pay a ridiculous amount each month that I can no way afford.

They say that if first payment is not received by 22/09/2012 my agreement will be cancelled and further action shall be taken which may incur additional costs.

I haven't even agreed to any agreement with B&S so don't see how they can threaten to cancel & add extra costs for something I haven't agreed to in the first place, my letter for the agreement was sent to the council and was for a amount that I could afford each month.

 

Don't know how to go about this now as first letter said they would be returning back to the council after 7 days which would be 19/09/2012, but now this letter says if I don't pay their amount they want by 22/09/2012, they will take further action so doesn't look like they're going to pass it back to council now.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[ploddertom]

Remember Lesson No 1: Bailiffs Lie

 

Continue paying as you were. Is it possible you can list the charges & dates they have given you?

[jon555]

Hi

 

Thanks for taking time to help

 

There is 2 accounts

 

1st account is originally for £859.81

 

Charges & dates are

 

15/07/11 - £24.50 - A.T.L Fee (First Visit)

25/08/11 - £50.00 - Levy Fee

29/09/11 - £130.00 - Van/Abortive Removal Fees

 

Total £1064.31

Total Fees £204.50

 

2nd account is originally for £276.74

 

Charges & Dates

 

25/08/11 - £33.00 - Levy Fee

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[ploddertom]

Thanks for listing those. I note they claim to have made a levy on both accounts, can you list the items seized on both exactly as they are written on the Notice of Seizure?

[jon555]

Hi

 

Thanks again for your help

 

The notice of seizure of goods doesn't list any items & just says see memo where fees should be listed.

There was an attached inventory of goods seized which says

 

Parked at side

of property

 

Peugeot 206

(Body Kit)

 

Colour Blue

 

Reg - (has reg of partners car)

(Plate change recorded)

 

Tax 30/11/11

 

to include all keys

+ Documents

 

This is the only item levied on & the car is owned by my partner

I have sent a stat dec to confirm this which they refused to accept & fees are still on account.

 

many thanks

 

Jon

[ploddertom]

At the time the debt was incurred did you live together?

[brassnecked]

If partner was non resident at the time the debt arose, then car is exempt from levy, so it fails.and is invalid

[jon555]

Hi

 

Thanks for your help

 

No partner did not live with me when debt arose

The debt is 100% mine in just my name

 

Car is owned by my partner, money came from her account when bought & receipt made in her name but is registered in my name for insurance purposes only.

A statutory declaration stating this has been sent to both B&S & council on more than one ocasion but they've refused to accept, so fees still remain.

 

Many Thanks

 

Jon

[lookinforinfo]

I agree with Hallowitch in post 4. I doubt the bailiffs would be so stupid as to remove the car since they know it is not yours. However they are trying to frighten you into

paying up by refusing to remove the levy.

 

You could complain to Trading Standards and the OFT questioning their fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

If you look at the OFT website -

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

 

you will see that the bailiffs, by levying on another persons car and possibly exercising their authority on an out of date warrant have fallen foul of several examples that could put their licence at risk

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

3.4 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position with regards to debts or the debt recovery process.

[they cannot levy your g/fs car]

 

b. falsely implying or stating that action can, or will, be taken, when legally it cannot be taken

[they cannot take the car]

 

g. pursuing third parties for payment when they are not liable

For example, pursuing a relative of a debtor for a debt when the relative is not a joint party to the credit agreement.

[ once again levying on the car ]

 

Physical/psychological harassment

3.6 Putting undue pressure on debtors or relevant third parties

[levying on car plus still pursuing when the levy may not now be valid]

 

i. pressurising debtors to pay more than they can reasonably afford without experiencing undue difficulty

30 As and when the debtor has been located/identified. or to pay within an unreasonably short period

 

32 For example, pressurising a debtor to make unreasonably large repayments or to pay off his debts in full in a single (or very few) repayment(s), when to do so would have an adverse impact on the debtor's financial circumstances.

 

j. failing to allow for alternative, affordable, repayment amounts when a reasonable proposal is made by a debtor

 

3.11 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:

a. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay recovery charges when this is not the case

d. applying unreasonable charges