just returned from spain after losing house with 2 children and not entitled to benefits

[rosebudbon]

hi

can anyone please help!!! myself, my partner, and 2 teenage boys (both under 16) have had to return to uk after living in spain for 7 years. (my partner 3 years). we are in the process of having our house in spain repossessed. in the last few months that we were there we were having to sell our possessions just to survive.

 

in the end we had to sell the last of our furniture in order to be able to travel back to uk as we had nothing left to live on out there. we have now been back for 2 weeks and are staying with a friend.

 

we have one room between the four of us. we applied for jsa and have been refused. they say we have to have lived here for 8 weeks before we can even apply. we have also been told that we cannot claim any child tax credits for our children for 8 weeks. nor housing benefit.

 

this means we have no financial help whatsoever and have to live in one room with our teenage boys for at least another 8 weeks. (we are two women). i dont understand why we are being treated like this.

 

i cant believe that they wont even support the children. we are looking for work with no luck so far. does anyone know of any other benefits we may be able to claim. my children are waiting for a place in a school, but i wont even be able to buy them a uniform.

please help!!!!!

Edited September 6, 2012 by citizenB
formatting

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm sure the guys will be along when they can, but please bear in mind that your query isn't an everyday one. I'm sure some of the forum members will know, but you may need to bear with us until they see your thread.

 

Is it possible that your family/ies could help you?

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I don't know if this will help right now, but here's a link to the directgov website about moving back to the UK.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/LivingintheUK/DG_4000140

 

HB

[rosebudbon]

hi honeybee

not really. they already done all they could while we were in spain. we now owe almost 10,000 to family trying to save the house and survive etc. so not only have we lost the house, were now in debt. really dont know what to do next. i thought the government would at least have to make sure the children were ok. if i was to purposely not give my children their basic needs it would be neglect. so i dont understand that the government can neglect them.

im not on the scrounge, but i thought my own country would support me and my family when we have no other choices.

 

xxx

[citizenB]

You might also obtain some advice from Citizen's Advice Bureau or Shelter regarding the housing situation.

 

You will find your local CAB office by googling.

 

Shelter's details can be found on the following link.

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice

[abc123def]

I take it you are not British Citizens?

 

I know that the Government have tightened things up as they felt many people were just coming here so they could claim benefits. Do you have any family you could stay with or who could support you? I think that is what is expected to happen when the sick and disabled have their sanctions placed when they are too ill to comply, relying on relatives/friends/charity, same here I guess.

[rosebudbon]

thanks for the thread. however ive already been on it but doesnt give much help.

xx

[rosebudbon]

hi.

yes we are british citizens. we have have british passports and lived in uk for our whole lives, till going to spain 7 years ago. mainly to try to give the children a better life. but spain crashed and we got caught up in it. friends and family have already done all they can.

xx

[honeybee13]

thanks for the thread. however ive already been on it but doesnt give much help.

xx

 

Hello again.

 

But have you rung Shelter or the CAB at all?

 

HB

[abc123def]

Rose if you absolutely have to, the children can be placed voluntarily into care and they will go to foster homes for the 8 weeks so they will be fed, clothed for school etc. it's a voluntary thing and once your housing and benefits are sorted they would come straight home. I know that would be a last resort (would be for me too) but I'm just saying it is an option if all else fails and they risk being hungry.

[rosebudbon]

hi abc.

no way. i may sound choosy but there is no way i would or could expose my children to the care system. i phoned the cab, who gave us the number of a charity who can give us food parcel.

[rosebudbon]

hi

i have been in touch with cab who couldnt really help but i will contact shelter and see what they come up with.

thanx for message x

[DanscoCAB]

I dealt with a client with nearly the same problem and sadly you aren't entitled to benefits or housing straight away. There are rules and time limits. Hopefully Shelter will be able be able to help or go in and speak to CAB, who will give you the time scale and help available.

[id6052]

often where a person moves to the UK from abroad, they are not eligible for social security unless they can satisfy the DWP/LA that they are habitually resident in the UK (or common travel area)

 

it sounds like the DWP are not satisfied that you are habitually resident

 

if so, ask for a reconsideration of the refusal, read paragraphs 071351 to 071353 at http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch0703.pdf as this may help you

 

alternative information on habitual residency can be found at http://www.housing-rights.info/habitual-residence-test.php

[rosebudbon]

thanx for info dansco. i am really shocked at the system. especially that it can neglect a childs needs. im going to phone shelter today. i have been told to put in a fresh claim now that we have been here for longer and to keep doing it every week till they accept the claim and are satisfied that we are going to be living here. although i am really gutted at the moment that we have no other choice. i cant believe in a country that refuse to help its own people when they are genuinly in need of support and assistance.

[rosebudbon]

thanx for link id6052 x

[42man]

I'm not 100% on this but if a Spanish person (or other European person) moves country I believe they are entitled to benefits from the country they are/were living in. What I am saying here is that a foreign national moving to the UK should not qualify for benefits until they have paid at least 12 months tax / national insurance and can continue to claim on the country they have moved FROM for 12 months. If you have been paying tax in Spain then you may be entitled to claim under their system I think for 12 months.

[42man]

I believe there are reciprocal benefits systems throughout Europe. It is different of course if you are/were self employed. Have a look at this link - http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-spain/pensions-benefits/benefits/

[42man]

Spanish Contribution-Based Benefits

 

Working and paying contributions in Spain gives you entitlement to a number of Spanish social security benefits. These benefits include unemployment benefit and permanent and temporary incapacity benefit. Note that paying contributions as a self-employed worker or autónomo does not give you entitlement to unemployment benefit in Spain.

If you have worked in Spain but have been told that you do not have entitlement to Spanish social security benefits as you have not paid enough national insurance contributions, you must make sure you declare the contributions you have made in the UK. They can be used to make up any entitlement as though they were paid in Spain. Also make sure that, as for any benefit application, you apply in writing.

Spanish unemployment benefit

 

You should apply for unemployment benefit in Spain if you have been working here and paying contributions. Make your claim at your local employment office in Spain.

You should also state any previous periods of contributions in the UK. You can prove previous periods of contribution in the UK by filling out a CA3916 and applying for a statement of National Insurance contributions from HM Revenue & Customs to assist Unemployment Benefit claims.

Further information on Spanish unemployment benefit

[mekongmarcus]

I returned to the UK earlier this year after ten years in the Far East.I immediately contacted the benefits office and they sent me out an habitual residence form (ask for HRT2 04/08) to fill in.It is six pages long and full of questions.I did a lot of online research,filled it in and was able to get full benefits two weeks after arriving back.(JSA and housing benefit)

 

When i get a moment i will post the points i used in my argument.

[rosebudbon]

mecongmarcos

thankyou. this may help so much. i will await your reply. i have phoned jsa again and asked them to review the decision. someone is going to call me today to hear me out. but the lady i spoke to informed me that the decision would be the same as there is a set rule that people returning to uk after more than 2 years have to wait for a period of 12 weeks. although on our letter it says after 8 weeks we can claim again. i have looked on the government link that someone has given on this site, and it says that it all depends and there is no set rule. so i am now really confused. it says that it depends on what ties you have here and what you are doing to prove you will live in uk. we are registered at a doctors, all our medical records are being transfered to uk, we have a one way ferry ticket, have applied for schools, have a bank account here, have all our families and friends here, looking for work. i dont know what else i can tell them to prove myself to them. sooooo frustrated!!!!!

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Did you find 42man's links any help?

 

HB

[mekongmarcus]

I found government websites of no help when filling out the habitually resident form.I did lots of research into case law,looked at sites like Rightsnet and extracted the following points which got me full benefits in 13 days.

 

1) I was born in this country and lived here continually for 22 years before going to Singapore.

 

2) Both my parents are British born.

 

3) Sold or am selling all assets in Singapore.

 

4) Closed bank/brokerage accounts in Singapore.

 

5) Arranged long term accomodation in the UK.

 

6) Bought a single plane ticket to the UK.

 

7) Registered with a UK doctor and dentist.

 

8) Never closed UK bank/building/stockbroker accounts.Used accounts while in Singapore.

 

9) Maintained close links with friends and family in the UK.

 

10) Now no property in Singapore.

 

11) Have had no contact with Singapore except for to conclude move.

 

 

That's it.All you have to do is show intent to stay here.All the case law,UK and European mentions intent.That is hard to disprove if you use facts like those above.

Edited September 8, 2012 by mekongmarcus

[DanscoCAB]

Their argument is that you could always go back to Spain and not stay in the UK. The whole Habitual Resident supposedly means like Mekon stated, proving you are staying for good. Speak to CAB or other advice service ASAP and they might be able to help with the appeal forms.

[citizenkain]

other side of the coin here..you cant really expect to show up in the uk after living abroad for several years and expect the authorities to just sort you out,did you really think you would just get a council house straight away and plenty of benefits excetera when you just popped back?,theres loads of people already been in the system for years