Unpaid fare notice, east coast trains- help please! - ** RESOLVED **

[thefarlster]

On the 23rd of August 2012 I was travelling back home from Leeds to London Kings Cross on a train specific ticket.

In a rush as my connecting train had been delayed, I did not pay full attention to the board, and accidentally got on the wrong train.

 

I was travelling with friends and, being engaged in conversation, and relieved that I was on the train,

 

I did not realise my error until the ticket inspector told me when he checked my ticket after Wakefield.

 

I apologised and offered to get off at the next stop and board the correct train when it arrived, which I thought would be a reasonable cure for an innocent mistake.

 

However he told me I could not, and would have to pay for a full priced ticket.

 

Being only 17, needless to say I did not have £124.50 in my wallet, so he filled out an unpaid fare notice for me.

 

I do not have anywhere near the £124.50 I need, so I thought it would be best to dispute the claim as soon as possible,

I sent a letter explaining in slightly more detail what I have already said here. As of yet I am awaiting a response.

 

can anyone give me any advice?

 

Do I have any basis to keep disputing?

 

Is it better to somehow find the money to pay?

 

Seeing as how I had a valid and paid for ticket, should that price be deducted from what I need to pay, ie, go down by about £30?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I have no idea where I stand!

 

Thanks in advance,

Charlie

Edited August 30, 2012 by thefarlster

[BazzaS]

On the 23rd of August 2012 I was travelling back home from Leeds to London Kings Cross on a train specific ticket. In a rush as my connecting train had been delayed, I did not pay full attention to the board, and accidentally got on the wrong train. I was travelling with friends and, being engaged in conversation, and relieved that I was on the train, I did not realise my error until the ticket inspector told me when he checked my ticket after Wakefield. I apologised and offered to get off at the next stop and board the correct train when it arrived, which I thought would be a reasonable cure for an innocent mistake. However he told me I could not, and would have to pay for a full priced ticket.

 

Being only 17, needless to say I did not have £124.50 in my wallet, so he filled out an unpaid fare notice for me. I do not have anywhere near the £124.50 I need, so I thought it would be best to dispute the claim as soon as possible, so I sent a letter explaining in slightly more detail what I have already said here. As of yet I am awaiting a response.

 

So can anyone give me any advice? Do I have any basis to keep disputing? Is it better to somehow find the money to pay? Seeing as how I had a valid and paid for ticket, should that price be deducted from what I need to pay, ie, go down by about £30? Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I have no idea where I stand!

 

Thanks in advance,

Charlie

 

Bottom line is that your ticket was only valid for one service, and if you were on a different service you had no valid ticket.

If you don't pay the unpaid fare notice and they choose to progress the case, could you defend against a charge of failing to show, on demand, a valid ticket? since if they pursued you for that, you may end up with a criminal conviction.

 

If you got on a prior train to the one your ticket was valid for you may struggle. What time was the train you were booked on due, when was the service you got on due, and what time did you get on it?. If the prior service was delayed to the exact time of your intended service you might have reasonably believed the prior service was the one you were meant to take, but would have to persuade them!

Edited August 30, 2012 by BazzaS

[thefarlster]

Righto, thank you. I'd better beg, borrow and steal as much as I can ASAP! Follow up question: even though I disputed, which I presume they will (rightly) reject, will I be able to pay the sum, or will they immediately take legal action against me?

[BazzaS]

Righto, thank you. I'd better beg, borrow and steal as much as I can ASAP! Follow up question: even though I disputed, which I presume they will (rightly) reject, will I be able to pay the sum, or will they immediately take legal action against me?

 

 

CORRECTION:

 

It's an unpaid fare notice rather than penalty fare, so you have to pay within 10 days even if you are lodging an appeal!

 

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/passengers-charter1/what-is-an-unpaid-fare-notice/?id=3633

 

 

Correction: Comment below applies to penalty fare notice, not an "unpaid fare notice" ... So I'd better shut up & hope one of the "industry experts" can advise!!

 

 

You say you've "disputed" it, but have you formally appealed?

You need to formally appeal, if you wish tIo try, and do so within 21 days. They can't progress to prosecution based on non-payment until the appeal has been dismissed, and even then you can go to a 2nd stage appeal (with the 'clock' again 'stopped')

 

So, you can try to appeal. Just make sure you don't miss any deadlines (also, keep copies of everything, and send post Special Delivery as it is a guaranteed delivery service).

If you use both appeal tiers and get knocked back twice, pay up before they choose to progress it!

Edited August 30, 2012 by BazzaS

[thefarlster]

I think I have appealed, but I don't really know. The notice itself said that to "dispute" the charge I would have to submit in writing my reasons within 10 days, and so I sent my letter to the given PO box in under 24 hours. Whether or not this is a formal appeal or not I don't know, but it was the only appeal-esque procedure which was given on the notice.

[thefarlster]

Also, will I be able to pay in cash? As I've managed to scrape together the funds, but dont have a bank account so cant pay by cheque or card, and a postal order will cost a further £10, which I dont have.

[sailor sam]

On the 23rd of August 2012 I was travelling back home from Leeds to London Kings Cross on a train specific ticket. In a rush as my connecting train had been delayed, I did not pay full attention to the board, and accidentally got on the wrong train. I was travelling with friends and, being engaged in conversation, and relieved that I was on the train, I did not realise my error until the ticket inspector told me when he checked my ticket after Wakefield. I apologised and offered to get off at the next stop and board the correct train when it arrived, which I thought would be a reasonable cure for an innocent mistake. However he told me I could not, and would have to pay for a full priced ticket.

 

Being only 17, needless to say I did not have £124.50 in my wallet, so he filled out an unpaid fare notice for me. I do not have anywhere near the £124.50 I need, so I thought it would be best to dispute the claim as soon as possible, so I sent a letter explaining in slightly more detail what I have already said here. As of yet I am awaiting a response.

 

So can anyone give me any advice? Do I have any basis to keep disputing? Is it better to somehow find the money to pay? Seeing as how I had a valid and paid for ticket, should that price be deducted from what I need to pay, ie, go down by about £30? Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I have no idea where I stand!

 

Thanks in advance,

Charlie

 

 

And you all got on the wrong train by mistake?

[thefarlster]

No, they could get any train on that day, but I could only ge a certain one, and I was, therefore leading the group, but led myself onto the wrong train- they didnt care.

[thefarlster]

I got off absolutely scott free, despite all the pessimisticcomments

Edited December 2, 2012 by ims21

[LaughingGirl]

Charming.

 

Don't suppose you'd care to elaborate on what the outcome was, and what you wrote to achieve it? It could be helpful for other people who find themselves in the same situation.

[Old-CodJA]

Almost certainly because there was a delay to the earlier service, EC will have taken that into account and considered that may have had a bearing on the traveller mistakenly boarding the wrong train.

 

Having re-assessed the UPFN on that basis, EC will have cancelled the liability

[sailor sam]

I got off absolutely scott free, despite all the pessimisticcomments

 

Very pleased for you ducky

[LaughingGirl]

Very pleased for you ducky

 

LOL!

[thefarlster]

Basically, I wrote to them once, then recieved 3 letters in 3 days from the debt collection agency, adding a further £65 to the charge. I then decided to write directly to EC, telling them of, firstly, what happened and why I got the notice in the first place; and, second, that I was shocked and scared by the letters in such quick succession adding so much extra for no reason. They said that they would "look into it". After about a month and a half without a responce, I wrote the old "I will concider the matter closed unless I hear otherwise", and then a couple of weeks later they told me that due to "inappropriate action undertaken" by the debt collection agency and "lack of substancial evidence in light of my letter", they would drop the case.

[thefarlster]

But thanks to everyone for the help, I really appreciated it, especially when I was so scared at the time!

[honeybee13]

Hello again and well done you. What you've mentioned doesn't sound right at all.

 

I'll alter your thread title.

 

HB