Car Impounded by police

[Raykay]

In reply to Raykay, these sections of the Road Traffic Act describe the form of a licence but do not say that a driver must hold one nor do they say that you need a photo-licence. . S 87 and s88 merely describe the form of a licence. They do not say that a driver must carry one at all times. This is an urban myth which the police like.

 

s.89(1):

A licence shall be in the form of a photocard of a description specified by the Secretary of State or such other form as he may specify, - which includes the old style paper licences.

 

You are not required to carry your licence at all times, but it is an offence to fail to produce it when required to - s.164 (1) & (6), Road Traffic Act 1988.

[Raykay]

I should have mentioned in the previous post that it is quite right that a court imposes fines not DVLA but DVLA would bring the action in court.

 

As far as driving licences are concerned, DVLA only keep the records and issue/revoke licences, any prosecutions are undertaken by police.

 

It is in respect of vehicle licences and records that DVLA undertake any prosecutions.

 

 

The Magistrates Courts use the 'Relevant Weekly Income' - which is weekly income less income tax and National Insurance, to assess the amount of a fine, nothing to do with lottery tickets. If the court has no information about it, the Relevant Weekly Income is assumed to be £350 and the fine is based on that.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Raykay

[Raykay]

The Road Traffic Act provides defences notably at s164(7 and 8).

 

s.164 (7) only gives a defence if the driving licence is subsequently produced.

s.164 (8) only applies if a driving licence has already been produced.

 

In each case, the holder must hold a driving licence to produce.

[Raykay]

You do not need to carry a driving licence, the requirement is that it is produced on request, failure to do so at the time is an offence. The defences in s.164, (7) & (8) require the production of a driving licence at some stage, so to use them, the person must have a driving licence to produce.

 

I agree that in many cases a check with DVLA will suffice, but there are circumstances - the offer of a fixed penalty for example, where a driving licence needs to be produced.

[Raykay]

My intention in this discussion is merely to provide clarity of the law. I agree with all you say in your latest post except that when I was, 'awarded' penalty points a few years ago, I was not required to produce my licence. The paperwork went straight to DVLA and points were recorded on the computer. I can't explain why but it does seem practical and I have no issue with this.

 

If your licence was endorsed with penalty points, it should have been produced.

The correct process is that the licence is endorsed by the court and returned to you, the court then notify DVLA. If a licence is not produced, DVLA will write to the licence holder asking that the licence is returned to them to be endorsed, if it is not, they revoke the licence.

 

Obviously mistakes can be made, but it is wrong to rely on mistakes to try to justify later arguments.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ray I don't think you'll get through to this guy he has one opinion and

considers it is always right.

[jamesbond]

Ray I don't think you'll get through to this guy he has one opinion and

considers it is always right.

perhaps brigadier you should give this guy a chance, in fairness we are all here to assist each other and just because we dont agree 100 per cent with a persons ideas doesnt cause a need to flame him..

i have had run ins with some of these clowns and to be fair whilst the majority of bobbies are fair and decent people, there are a few jobsworths that think they are in the sweeny.

everybodies ideals are different , and just because somebody tells me to jump , i dont until i have made sure they have the official powers to make me!

Edited July 27, 2012 by jamesbond
spelling

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No one is doubting that!!

there is certainly no ''flaming'' here,

my con concern that some individuals

may try the proposition put forward here

and end up in serious trouble!!

[Raykay]

Just one other point. I wasn't relying on mistakes to justify my arguments. I was relying on the legal advice from the Head of Legal Services at DVLA. She told me face to face that DVLA has never prosecuted anyone for not having a licence and never will. I presumed that she must know what she was talking about.

 

If you were not required to produce your driving licence at court, somebody made a mistake - you may have got away with it, but it is wrong to advise other people to do as you did as they may not get the same result.

 

DVLA have never prosecuted anyone just for not having a driving licence and never will because it is not an offence, the offence is driving a motor vehicle on a road without a driving licence, and it is the police who deal with that because they are the ones who find the people who are doing it - DVLA staff in their offices can't.

[Raykay]

Reply to RayKay: You are quite correct and is the point I made at the beginning of this thread - that DVLA have never prosecuted anyone for not having a licence and never will. The police may demand you produce it but there are defences as we have both pointed out.

 

 

The defences you refer to for the offence of failing to produce a driving licence when required, need the licence to have been produced before or produced after the time that production was required. Obviously if you don't have it, you can't have produced it, so you commit the offence.

[lamma]

the entitlement to drive does not expire when the photocard expires

 

The licence i.e the entitlement lasts until age 70.

 

"The expiry of the photo on a drivers’ licence does not affect the validity period of the entitlement shown on the licence." http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067673.pdf sheesh folks,

don't go spreading the propaganda.

 

They are not connected. the way most people think.

 

Best illustrated by the fact that failing to surrender your licence when the photocard expires means you commit an offense (no pay attention to the next but) whether or not you drive.

 

See, they are disconnected.

people are confusing the date the photo is valid to with the date the entitlement expires.

 

I have a QC get this wrong.

 

To finish the words of the DVLA themselves when some one FOI'ed them about this:-.

 

If the photograph has expired on the driving licence the customer is still entitled to drive.

However, I can confirm that it is an offence to not surrender your licence to update the photograph after 10 years.

The licence holder is liable to pay a fine of up to £1000 upon conviction Court.

The police will be responsible for the prosecution of this offence.

 

THE ROAD TRAFFIC ACT STATES:

(a) The ability to fine a customer who does not update his or her photograph is captured under Section 99(5) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 c.52 (Section 99(4)

also includes image/photograph but the website hasn't been updated as yet) (b) Section 99 (5) states

 

" A person who fails to comply with the duty under subsection (4) above is guilty of an offence

© The related offence description and fine is given under RTA section 99 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 c.53 : (d) RTS section 99 states

"Driving licence holder failing, when his particulars become incorrect, to surrender licence and give particulars" (The level of the actual fine is £1000)

I hope this helps with your enquiry.

[nigelb_64]

I was stopped for speeding a while back and had to produce my documents at the police station. I carried my passport to prove who I was and my outdated photo card and driving licence. the police did not wish to accept this. I told them to check with the DVLA they did and advised that I did not have to update it but they recommended I do.