Advice on Court Proceedings - Deposit Tenant as Defendant

[stunning101]

Hi All,

 

This is very complicated:

 

We rented a property for 3.5 years off a first time landlord found through an Agent who did not manage the property). We had inventory completed at the start which I amended and we all agreed to. We had a deposit of £1250 which was held by the T.D.S. During our tenancy we had quite a few issues with the property and a lot of repairs that were required. Stupidly we only spoke to our landlord on the phone and he promised again and again to complete these repairs. We chased, informed the agent (who told us that they could not be involved) and then gave up. At the end of our tenancy the landlord decided he wanted to enter the property early to complete all the repairs which we have an e-mail about. He entered two weeks before the end of the property (something we agreed to be nice as we had already moved out) and then called us with a loads of reasons he was going to keep our deposit. We requested an exit survey (this was never offered and the agent and landlord did an exit inspection without us present). We sent a letter to the landlord at the end of our tenancy (30.11.2011) saying that the deposit money was ours and he would need to prove a claim to it in order to retain our deposit. Things went very quiet. He sent one e-mail with a list of values and costs:

 

Dining Room Floor - Whole flooring need re laminating as water damage to floor.

Dining Room Table - Stored in garage water damage

Mark on kitchen wall - From BBQ

Marks on sofas

Damage to sliding doors.

 

We took pictures on exit, he did not. We admitted to the damage to the sofas but disputed the rest as the flooring was extremely cheap and glued together. It had already been damaged in the kitchen in a similar fashion to us moving in and we asked for proof of age and value. We have asked for proof of the value of everything which has never been provided and he has only provided his values along with a few quotes which seem very high.

 

After I sent many many e-mails asking for proof/clarification in December I took this case to the T.D.S. It was then that the agent got involved and said that she was impartial. She rang us every evening during a time when our son had been born. We asked for everything to be put in writing. She ignored this and kept telling us that our taking this case to the T.D.S had made our landlord angry and he would take it to court instead. He did this after allowing the T.D.S 5 weeks of involvement. The agent was very aggressive and served the court papers on his behalf. She has obtained high quotes and has accepted his verbal values of everything.

 

The courts served their papers and we stated that we could not defend as no particulars had been served ( this was in March a month and a half after the original papers). I recently served notice on the Claimant saying that unless we received the particulars the claim should be struck out. That he had not followed the CPR's correctly.

 

A week later to my horror the agent served the particulars on his behalf along with a letter stating she had telephoned us twice to confirm we had received these and that they had been sent a while ago. She also accused the court's administration of being slack and losing papers (our have always been received and we return promptly).

 

I could not believe this and wrote a letter stating that we had asked for all correspondence to be in writing, a request which has been ignored. I also said that we had not got any calls and I feel that this agent is acting as an legal adviser and this is a conflict of interest. I had written a complaint to the agent as well as sending a letter requesting more detail in the particulars.

 

The thing is I've researched more and think that his particulars are written wrong. He has listed the points he is claiming for and has included not background or information. he is also choosing the courts in order to claim more money from us and has deliberately wasted time. He has used photos we have never seen and a few overpriced quotes (he is a builder by trade). Is there anything else I can do as my letters are being ignored by the courts and I'm worried that they will let this hearing 17th July just go ahead without any more information from him! Also should I served my defense on these points or the previous e-mail arguments?

[labrat]

Is the tds still looking at it?

 

Courts tend to take a dim view of people who don't try to sort things out reasonably first so if the tds is still looking at it you can point out that the landlord hasn't gone through the approved arbitration first

 

Make sure you attend on the day or he win on default

 

Remember he is not allowed to charge the full price of everything and must take reasonable depreciation into account

 

If you feel that the quotes he has are over inflated try and get other estimates and provide these with your defense

 

And make sure you get a written defense in

 

Oh and edit - what values has he requested?

[mariner51]

LL is quite entitled to decline offer of TPS ADR in favour of County Court action

He is entitled to claim for reasonable estimated professional cost of repair etc.

Judge/adjudicator should decide on reasonableness of claim, subject to allowance for depreciation.

[stunning101]

Hi

 

He has never proved the values of anything and his verbal values have changed. At one point he was claiming £2500 from us.

 

His values are:

 

1. Laminate Flooring : £519.38 He is saying that he glued this flooring and the whole lot would need to be replaced. We have argued that there was a trend of wear evident in the original inventory in the kitchen floor. The kitchen flooring was in a worst state on our entry to the property than the dining room flooring at the end of our tenancy. He has never proved the age of this flooring nor the quality which we have evidence is a budget choice from B&Q. He has supplied a recent photo 6 months after which looks worst and we think has been tampered with to exaggerate the state of this flooring.

 

2. Dining Table : £180 for repair. He says that this tables is valued at £580 from Habitat. I offered to replace the table with a table of 3 years old from Ebay. This made him angry and he first wanted us to replace the table at a cost of £400 then wants us to pay to repair. I could replace it with a identical table for £100 which he was not happy with. We mutually agreed that we could store this table in the garage, something he has only denied 3 months after we left. The damage was due to the garage not being damp proofed correctly.

 

3. Sofas. £180 He says there are two marks. We only saw one and he provided photographs 3 months after we left. We only accept one and have ask time and time again why these pictures were not taken soon after our exit and an exit survey bee conducted.

 

4. Mirror Wardrobe: £240. These were damaged during our tenancy and on the list of his repairs that I stupidly did not put in E-mail form. He has not denied this until 3 months after we left. These cost £60 each to replace and are a click and fit system so very easy to install (5-10 minutes work). He has received a quote for labour cost of £120 which is very high. We have ask for a reason and for him to search for more reasonable quotes. He has ignored this.

 

5. External Wall Mark £75. The last e-mail communication we received said that this mark simply wipes off so they would not ask for any money for this. We state we are confused as to why this has been added to the claim. We also say that this is damp due to the sink not being sealed correctly.

 

The main issue we have is he has repeatedly ignored our request for clarification. The agent has sided with him and said if we want more quotes to get them ourselves ( but not giving any access to the property). We say that the onus is on him to prove a claim and provide fair quotes allowing for original value and wear and tear of 3.5 yrs. He is a builder by trade and using his 'mates' to provide any quote and say anything.

 

The only reason he did not want to use the TDS is he thinks they side with the tenant. He has wasted so much time and is trying to get more money from us. I would of thought the courts would of been so fed up with these sort of claims that they would not want to hear it.

 

Do these things affect his case:-

 

1. The agent sent an amended inventory with our original signature on it. We wrote an e-mail to them highlighting our alarm. They said this has no relevance to the court case and that they would defend this if it were included.

 

2. No Exit Survey and No Photos apart from the ones I took on the last day. I cannot accept their pictures 3 and 6 months after we left and I feel these are not a true representation of the state of the points.

 

3. Landlord wasting time and allowing T.D.S 5 weeks of processing. He has missed numerous deadlines with them (so tired of people giving him so many chances and allowing him to waste more time) and then at the last minute they said they could not proceed as he has served court papers.

 

4. No proof of values along with unreasonable quotes - Replacing whole flooring rather than that small section of the flooring etc.

 

5. Agent acting as his legal rep.

 

6. So many e-mail from me asking for more information and him ignoring so many of these. He only disputes certain things and has changed his story recently. Something we have e-mail proof of.

 

7. Agent lied about trying to get hold of us and lied about the particulars being served earlier. Put blame on the court's administration system.

 

8. I have recently served an embarrassed defense asking for more detail to the particulars in the form of original values and receipts (he stated everything was new when we moved in therefore should keep in the receipts).

 

9. He said he wanted to use the court mediator system yet has not contacted them. We have!

 

10.I am so tired of having to spend so much time on this simply because he cannot be bothered. He had several reminders to complete his allocation survey and sent it in 3 weeks late. He has been given so many chances. I bet he won't provide his detailed claim until the day before the court case and they'll accept this?

 

As you can tell I feel that his actions and the agent's actions have been dishonorable and I wish for this to be viewed in court as I believe they will be less likely to take his say-so as he is a proven liar!

 

Any advice on anything else I can do. Can they ignored my request for more detail to the particulars?

[raydetinu]

You need to defend and include all emails, letters requesting info to prove they have not reponded.

With regards to the table in the garage, how are you reponsible for that, he left there in his own property!

They will have to allow for fair wear and tear on all furnishings, flooring etc. physical damage is somthing else but costs have to be fair and reasonable,

I am sure a judge will see that.

The LL can choose to go throgh the court system just as a tennant can.

good luck.

[stunning101]

Thank you for your advice. To bring this tread up to date we have passed on his information to the mediation service provided for the courts and he has ignored two weeks of them trying to get hold of him. He does this and we are not surprised. She informed me to ensure I make my defense and attend on the day. I have a feeling he will try and settle this a few days before and the reason he did not send the allocation was because it required extra funds.

[stunning101]

Hi,

 

I recently posted a detailed account of us trying to use the TDS. Long story short the LL allowed them 5 weeks and at the last minute decided to use the courts. He has provided the particulars but after 8 weeks after the claim date of 3rd of Feb 2012. Our court date is July and I am compiling our defense. My questions are:-

 

1. His Particulars include two photos of his without dates that we have never seen until now. He has used some of our pictures taken on the last day of tenancy which I am fine about but can I say that I cannot accept these pictures?

 

2. He has got some quotes which seem very high on the labor costs. He has only gained one quote per point as well. He is a builder by trade and I feel that he is trying to quote and then pocket some of the money. Not sure if I can prove this.

 

3. One quote says that the deposit of 50% has already been paid. Does this effect the case as he has already gone ahead with this quote without judgement? Can I contact the new tenants to see if this new flooring has been laid?

 

4. Also we requested an exit survey (completed an entry survey) or at least a mutual walking around the property. This was refused. The agent sent We wrote an e-mail with our alarm and were fobbed off and that this does not affect our case. There is no agreement on the condition of any items/flooring when we left apart from my photos accepted from both sides. The Agent said that we will lose in court and was quite aggressive. What is the truth about this?

 

5. He also never sent a letter before action and I am printing out the huge amount of e-mails that were ignored by him asking for more information and trying to communicate.

 

6. He said that he wanted to use the court mediation service. I contacted them and copied him in on e-mail. They have been trying to contact him and have not got hold of him. I have this confirmed via e-mail. He put in his allocation questionnaire that he wanted a face to face meeting using this service. I feel that he is continuing to muck us about.

 

7. The court had to send several letters asking him for his allocation questionnaire that he failed to return to them. He was given two further chances to complete. We have argued that he is wasting time.

 

8. We wish to put as our defense that we wanted to use the TDS to avoid time delays and further costs. We feel his actions have cause both. We also feel that his reason for going to court to have this face to face meeting could have been achieved using the mediation service. This is no longer available as they have exhausted their time on him.

 

9. Does he need to complete a more detailed claim as the Particulars are quite vague? These are required 14 days before the court date. My feeling is that he will fail to do this. Will this have an impact on this court hearing?

 

10. I am printing out all correspondence in the form of e-mails, records on all phone calls in date order and all the photos that I took that are mutually accepted.

 

11. I have asked him for proof of the values and ages of all the items he claims are damaged. He has ignored this and his story has continually changes to elevate the claim. I have e-mail proof of this. Will this affect the case that he has not and will not provide this even though he claims all these items/flooring is brand new just before we moved in. Surely he should have the receipts for tax purposes?

 

12. We have admitted to one of the claims. How to I complete the defense forms to show this?

 

Sorry for the long winded questions. I am trying to get everything together and am sure I will appear much more organized in court, something that will help with his say against ours. :violin:Thank you

[rebel11]

Thread merged.

[transient]

On another point is the court where it is being held local to you? If not you can ask to have it moved to your local court. I can see that you wish this rto be dealt with speedily and are fed up with it but just thought I would point it out incase it is causing you more expense

[stunning101]

Hi the court is Kingston. This is not too bad but I was worried that if I argue to have to moved to Guildford which is closer it may delay things or cause further problems. If this is not the case can I still do this as I did not request on the Allocation Questionnaire? The annoying thing is if we continued to use the TDS is that this would all have been solved by valentines day this year.

[mariner51]

Best get this heard at Kingston to avoid you wasting more of the Courts time. Agent works for LL. Only LL or solic can present the case in Court. His delays/oversights will have been noted and LL will have to justify reasonableness of claim.

[stunning101]

Thank you. I have made a complaint to the Agent which they have ignored. I sent it recorded delivery as I wished to complain about their false documents with our signature on it and acting on his behalf (serving his papers etc) but claiming they were impartial. He has spoken to the mediation after seeing my e-mail thanking them for their time in attempting to get hold of him. He wishes this to be heard in court. I am hoping that his actions will come across to the courts and this may sway the his word verses ours on verbal say so.

[transient]

Thank you. I have made a complaint to the Agent which they have ignored. I sent it recorded delivery as I wished to complain about their false documents with our signature on it and acting on his behalf (serving his papers etc) but claiming they were impartial. He has spoken to the mediation after seeing my e-mail thanking them for their time in attempting to get hold of him. He wishes this to be heard in court. I am hoping that his actions will come across to the courts and this may sway the his word verses ours on verbal say so.

The court are very wise to the antics of some and see straight through it.

[stunning101]

I hope so. I feel that they have given him quite a few chances and I was surprised that it had not been thrown out considering the missing Particulars and Allocation Questionnaire. I still find it strange that he is behaving so arrogantly that he is totally in the right. He has even included one point which was relented in the last e-mail sent as the mark wiped off the wall. We said this was mould as I had previously cleaned this. I feel frustrated that they wanted me to prove all my points when I no longer had access to the property. The Agent, although forced to use the TDS, were still behaving in the old bullying tenants into giving up all the deposit. I thought the whole point of the TDS was to prevent the very behavior that the LL and Agent have shown. I was hoping that the judge would throw it out and allow the TDS to complete considering this. The LL is asking for an expert to be included and I feel it is a builder mate. He wants expenses of around £100 for this person. We do not know who this person is or if he has permission to bring him. I feel it is to gain yet more costs from us. I do not understand how he can justify lumping all these costs onto the potential judgement as the route we wanted was free? Surely this will look bad on him?

[transient]

I understand what you are saying, you will be given the chance to submit your documents where they move the goalposts, would suggest highlighting these and doing a table of contents as such to direct it.

 

You will also get a verbal chance to say anything and can cover anything, just dont OTT repeat stuff as in any situation it loses its value.

 

County courts would rather things are sorted out amicably, if not then by some form of mediation, you have gone to extreme lengths to get this resolved and the county court judge will clearly see this. This has a bit of a adverse effect for the person not willing to compromise aand actually goes well in your favour.

 

Please make sure you point out fFOR ME four key things.

 

LA stating they were impartial but now not acting as such - felt betrayed

The fact they amended the initial inventory/damage with your signature - Important

Compromise, how much this has affected you coming to court etc etc

The Landlord works in the building field and that 3 independent quotes are not provided - he doesnt have to but you have now placed the mates rates element of doubt at his expert

 

I think you will be just fine, please come back to let us know any developments/updates

[stunning101]

Thank you for the advice. I will point out all the points you have mentioned and will try to keep my documents simple and plain. Doe he have to prove the age, condition and value of the items if it is to be found in his favor? I believe he will provide verbal amounts on the day and I will include e-mails to prove he has changed his story. Not sure how this will be received by the judge but I will provide this tread with the outcome as it is useful for anyone in our position in the future!

[transient]

The judge will be well versed on awarding if he does and if he thinks there is a valued reason for you compensating him will ask the age and cost etc also using his experience and knowledge form previous cases and maybe personal knowledge, he could be a builder himself!

 

The county court judges really act on common sense and are not the criminal judge, silk practioners you would expect. nothing to worry about

[stunning101]

That's good to know. I think I need to have more faith in the Judge and their experience. I will make sure to include the conflicting information on ages/values etc as they seemed to change considerably the later part of last year so I'm sure that the judge will see through this. Can I ask that it be a private hearing as I feel that otherwise he will get his builder mates and Agent along to try and further intimidate.

 

It's interesting as I used a copy of the letter on this forum in order to ask for the deposit back. This angered him into taking us to court.

[stunning101]

Hi

 

More to this thread now:

 

We used court mediation which failed as we could not come to an agreement on any figures or values. I would, however, recommend using the mediation as it was very useful and I could see it working in a lot of cases. We have finished our defense which is a bundle of e-mails, letters and photos. The deadline for this document to be received by all parties is this Tuesday. I am sending by recorded delivery to all concerned. My question is this - The Claimant has consistently failed to submit documents within the timescale required and has had repeated extensions from the courts. If he does not supply any further information can he 'surprise' us in court? If nothing is sent on Tuesday should I send another letter saying that I assume the Particulars are his only evidence? He claimed to have a witness but we have received nothing and I understood that he required permission from the courts to do this. Should I request this information?

 

Thank you

[raydetinu]

IMO let it go, the judge may or may not accept anything else on the day but if he does you will have the opportunity to challenge it and question it.

The judge may be interested in how close or what the sticking points were in the mediation, if you want to add that in.

[stunning101]

Hi

 

Just to let you know that the Claimant has failed to adhere to the order made by the judge on the 3rd of May (documents and all witness reports etc to be supplied to the court and other parties not later than 14 days before the hearing date). He was three months late in getting the Particulars after the service date and two weeks late on the allocation questionnaire. Do you think I have grounds to ask this case to be struck out or should I leave it to be considered on the day?

[raydetinu]

IMO, I would leave it, he may not turn up even, and ask judge to find in your favour in any event.

[stunning101]

Ok I will leave it. I will update you on outcome. Be interesting to see if he does turn up or not!

[stunning101]

Hi just to let you all know he has ignored Judge's order and submitted 12 new photos (hoovering mouse over to prove date) and loads of new information only a week before the court case. I have sent, via e-mail, a request for the Judge to disregard as he has deliberately done this all the way through this dispute. I am hoping that the Judge can see is character traits from these recent actions. Court case in a week, will inform of outcome.

[transient]

Can you confirm what you mean by he has provided photos whereby you hover the mouse over to prove the date?

 

Has he emailed these to you as attachments? Is that what you are saying? or sent them on a usb drive or something?

 

If so be aware the dates can easily be manipulated and the court should not be taking this as granted