driving without commercial insurance

[kam lee]

i got pulled over by the police yesterday i have normal social domestic and pleasure and commute to aplace of work insurance. i had some stock that i was carrying for my shop in the vehicle,

 

i got pulled and give a ticket for not driving without insurance, they took the car and i now have a fixed penalty im guessing with 6 points.

 

any advice?

 

i dont mind paying the fine however its not like i was driving without any insurance just not commercial insurance

[chiefengineer]

Hello,

 

My question is how'd they know it was stock for your shop and not stuff you'd bought for personal use?

 

I'd check with your insurance company. The goods would not have been insured, but I'm not sure it would have invalidated your policy. I'm not an expert though, so don't take anything I say at face value.

[Aretnap]

If your insurance doesn't cover the vehicle for business use, and you were using it for business purposes then you were uninsured. Insurance which doesn't cover the way you use the vehicle is no insurance at all.

 

Read the small print of your policy carefully, contact your insurer and see if there's any wiggle room - it may be that they would cover occasional business use as a goodwill gesture and if you can persuade them to give you a letter to say that they would have honoured a third party claim in the circumstances then you would have a defence. But to be honest I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

[sailor sam]

More to this than meets the eye me thinks. What kind of stock were you carrying and what kind of vehicle were you driving. By the sounds of it, the police have acted as judge and jury. All they would be interested in is that you had minimum cover to drive the vehicle at the time. This is a interesting one.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Wayne0]

I work at mcd's. sometimes pop to other store for buns etc when no stock... I must have business use. No wiggle room, when caught you are done 4... But didnt realise they would take ur car if u had a SDP policy?

 

why admit it was stock? Why not say was personal items,,, never admit guilt at roadside ecen if guilty,,,, will just b worse off...

[Aretnap]

More to this than meets the eye me thinks. What kind of stock were you carrying and what kind of vehicle were you driving. By the sounds of it, the police have acted as judge and jury

At a guess he gets stopped for something unrelated to insurance (possibly as trivial as a tail light), police ask what he's doing, he tells them, then they check his insurance and find that it doesn't cover business use. Happens all the time. They haven't acted as judge and jury; they've given him a fixed penalty which they're entitled to do if they have a reasonable belief that he's committed the offence. If he doesn't accept that he committed it he has the right to decline the fixed penalty and opt for a trial by magistrates instead. The police are also entitled to seize the vehicle if he fails to produce an insurance certificate showing that he was insured and they have a reasonable belief that he wasn't insured. Not as an additional punishment (though doubtless it feels like it) but to ensure that he doesn't continue driving without insurance.

[sailor sam]

As I said, there is more to this. I'm not sure that it is for the police to decide what insurance cover the OP needs... I would of thought that would be needed to be confirmed by his insurance company which the police can check with. Personally I doubt if most police officers would know what a commercial policy covers anyway. Again, we don't know what 'goods' we are talking about or what type of vehicle. The answer to that may make the situ clearer.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Wayne0]

well, as i said above, i only occasionally have to use my car for business, but have to pay an extra £100 a year for the "priviledge"... taking my premium to over 700. It isnt worth the risk that much, but if everybody put the correct details on their policy, think of the impact of everybodies costs... their policies might go up, but shouldnt ours go down?

 

mind, looking at the recent changes... i doubt it... my focus was 690 to insure last year, with 1 yr no claims, next year with 2 years they want 2590... how do insurance companies work these ones out? - its all down to "we can and will rip you off" (btw, im the only driver of my car... - so i dont see how this women pay the same thing has had such an effect on my policy, should of sent it down even lower???)

 

TO THE OP...

 

Please supply more details:

Why were you initially stopped...

What goods?

did you admit guilt at roadside?

why were you not correctly insured +

[bumblewasp]

A lot of people fall into this trap. local postman uses his car to drive to his delievry area with a boot full of sacks of post. Problem is that IF the car is being used for business purposes at the time of a stop, it MUST have business insurance cover at that time. If not, in the eyes of the law it is uninsured for the use it was being used for. It doesn't matter if the driver has SDP cover if the car was being used for business purposes.

[Wayne0]

A lot of people fall into this trap. local postman uses his car to drive to his delievry area with a boot full of sacks of post. Problem is that IF the car is being used for business purposes at the time of a stop, it MUST have business insurance cover at that time. If not, in the eyes of the law it is uninsured for the use it was being used for. It doesn't matter if the driver has SDP cover if the car was being used for business purposes.

 

not exactly a trap...?

 

Should know how you will use your car and insure appropriately....

 

After being hit by an uninsured driver and having it go as a fault claim since the claim had to go on my insurance... Think of if it happened to you...

 

Nm what insurance shouldn't be messed with...

 

Take mobile phone insurance... If you wash your mobile it's covered... If your wife loads the washer it's not... Talk about get outs...

 

Think .... Insure appropriately... You can always secure release of the car... But six points and in10 will mean expensive insurance next year ... And the years to come...

[bumblewasp]

You misunderstand me. I do not in any way condone uninsured drivers. Quite the opposite. My comment meant that many people are not aware that are doing something wrong, as in the local postie. People do use their car to do errunds for work, unaware that by doing so they are uninsured in the event of a collision or traffic stop. You can probably tell my former occupation by now, I have had to break this news to many drivers over the years.

[Wayne0]

oh right, sorry...

 

It seems that MOST people are "why are insurance/police/courts/etc after me"... etc, and dont actually consider that "they" are in the wrong...

 

to the OP though:

 

Business insurance is required if you travel to more than one place of work AFTER YOU LEAVE HOME... or if you travel anywhere for work OTW home.

 

if your journey consisted of "I had a package delivered to my home address... and i was driving to work, with it in my vehicle." then you are covered under commuting... if your journey was "i left home, popped to the local cash and carry, collected some items, then was otw to shop." then your not...

 

Today for instance, I was OTW to work, got a call off manger "Can you nip round the drive thru and get me XXXX... They know your otw"... that isnt covered under commuting. ALTHOUGH, many of the staff who work at my place actually dont have "commuting" on their policy either. with their argument being "if the police say anything i was just getting a burger"

 

it is annoying knowing such...

 

just think of all the fronting that goes on... and when people do genuinely need to be on their parents cars for occasional use, they get stiffed now because insurance company's assume that they are fronting now too. one of my workmates is back from uni for two weeks and its costing like 300 quid extra to be on her parents insurance... she said she wishes she drove her own car back ... would of been cheaper than the train and insurance...

[sailor sam]

Everybody is jumping on the 'i am right' band wagon here. Until we know more info from the OP, there is little point in guessing what may or may of not happened. My take is that there is more to this story as I still maintain that the police had more reason to check the insurance that the OP is telling us. I doubt that the police would be further interested after establishing that the OP had the minimum TP cover unless there was something else that gave them cause for concern.

 

Its also worth noting that the OP asked the question almost a month ago and after just 1 post, hasn't come back since.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[batman1956]

On a similar theme I have a friend who has recently been stopped in a vehicle owned by his employer. The employer has 2 businesses, 1 involving motors and the other double glazing. The vehicle is registered to the motor business and is regularly used to transport glazing. My friend is a named driver on the policy and as such drives the van delivering glazing units.He has been stopped, given a £200 spot fine and told points will be added to his licence. The officer kept his licence and issued no receipt. His offence is quoted as carrying the wrong type of goods. I.E carrying glass in a vehicle registered to someone in the motor trade. Has he got any defence.

[Raykay]

On a similar theme I have a friend who has recently been stopped in a vehicle owned by his employer. The employer has 2 businesses, 1 involving motors and the other double glazing. The vehicle is registered to the motor business and is regularly used to transport glazing. My friend is a named driver on the policy and as such drives the van delivering glazing units.He has been stopped, given a £200 spot fine and told points will be added to his licence. The officer kept his licence and issued no receipt. His offence is quoted as carrying the wrong type of goods. I.E carrying glass in a vehicle registered to someone in the motor trade. Has he got any defence.

 

Possibly

 

S.143 (3) Road Traffic Act 1988 - A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this section shall not be convicted if he proves—

(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession under a contract of hiring or of loan,

(b)that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and

©that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security as is mentioned in subsection (1)

 

(subsection 1 is the offence of no insurance)

[CrappoMan]

Back to the OP's problem, I thought that if the terms and conditions of an insurance policy are breached, the cover falls back to RTA only cover, which is sufficient to comply with the Road Traffic Act.

 

However, if you are involved in an accident or need to make a claim, or have a claim made against yourself, then you may not be covered financially for the claim and could be on the hook for any costs.

[batman1956]

Thank you very much at least it is a start. Please could anyone add anything his 28 days to contest is up soon.

[Wayne0]

Back to the OP's problem, I thought that if the terms and conditions of an insurance policy are breached, the cover falls back to RTA only cover, which is sufficient to comply with the Road Traffic Act.

 

However, if you are involved in an accident or need to make a claim, or have a claim made against yourself, then you may not be covered financially for the claim and could be on the hook for any costs.

 

no. if you dont have the right type of cover, the police can contact the insurance and say "is this person covered for work in connection with their business" if they say no, then they do not have insurance.

 

 

On my Certificate for both my car and bike , it states if i do or do not have cover for commuting, business etc...

 

on my car it states i have business cover, commuting and social ddomestic pleasure. it also states that this cover is for proposer only (me)

 

on my bike it states i have cover for SDP, it then states for commuting to a fixed place of work, as noted on my proposal form (they asked for address)

it then states that i am not covered for business use.

 

If i claim i garage my bike (i do) but do not have a garage, this cannot void my insurance for driving... but can void the theft cover...

 

 

ALTHOUGH:

 

if you have insurance, have an accident, havent declared accidets, your technically not insured, but the insurance co will pay out, and chase you for the money... and also pass you onto the police and you could get charges for insurance fraud.

[vax2002]

You are most likely covered for purposes of the road traffic act, which is all you need:

Contact a motoring solicitor, you will need a specialist who understands the insurance bond certificate and the road traffic act.

Insurance can NOT be retrospectively cancelled at road side by the police or insurance companies "fascione vs West Yorkshire police"

With the correct solicitor to pull up the clerk of court, you should be cleared, however you may need to appeal the magistrates decision as they have a tendency to ignore the law.

[batman1956]

Unfortunately this did not go to court. The spot fine was paid by his employer and he has subsequently spoken to a solicitor who seems to think that by paying the fine it is an admission of guilt. As things stand he will get 6 points on his licence for basically doing his job.