First Direct - "No statements available to review"

[Subliminal Sam]

I have just got around to chasing up companies with whom I have held credit cards in recent years. i wrote to First Direct to enquire if I had been charged PPI on a Classsic Card I held with them. The account has been closed for a number of years.

 

I have just received a response which contained the following comments:

 

" I'm sorry to learn that you believe a Balance Protector (BP) policy attached to Classic Card XXXX was mis-sold. Our records confirm that you applied for the card on xxxx 1999. I've enclosed a copy of the original application, for your reference.

 

You will note you manually ticked the box relating to BP, indicating the insurance was required. Due to the time elapsed, I'm unable to confirm if any premiums were charged, as there are no statements available to review. Given the information available, I'm unable to investigate further. That said, if you can provide all the information you hold to confirm BP costs, please forward this to me and I'll be happy to review your concerns in more detail."

 

The letter ends with a load of old toot about them being passionate about providing exceptional service, if they don't hear from me they will consider the matter closed and I can contact the Financial Ombudsman Service if I'm not happy.

 

I know that I am being fobbed off here and I am convinced that PPI has been charged on this account. Please can anyone advise me as to what I do next? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[ims21]

I take it you haven't got the statements either?

 

You could try a SAR but the passage of time may be against you. When was the account closed?

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

I don't have any statements. I'm guessing that the account was closed around 2003.

[ims21]

Well they could legitimately have destroyed them six years after the relationship ended but we do know that records are sometimes kept for longer.

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

OK. I have just received a lot of paperwork in response to my SAR. There are no statements or any other information regarding the Classic Card, other than the agreement they originally sent. Incidentally the Cover box is ticked and the Do not require Cover box is ticked and then crossed out!

 

But there is a photocopy of a Personal Loan Agreement. It gives full details of the Principal Loan amount and also gives details of a Repayment Insurance Loan related to the Principal Loan. I do not recall any advice or discussions with First Direct about this Repayment Insurance Loan. It was organised in 2000. The details of the Repayment Insurance Loan are presented as:

 

Amount of premium: X

Amount of loan: Y

Total Charge for credit: Z

 

Total amount payable under this agreement: X1 (This figure is around £1,000 so worth pursuit I would imagine.)

 

Number of repayments and repayment date.

 

This loan was subsequently incorporated into a Consolidation Loan (how stupid was I?) two years later. The box requiring a First Direct Loan Protection Plan has been ticked in the Consolidation Loan paperwork but there are no details regarding the cost. All loans have been paid off.

 

My questions are:

1. Do I have enough information to pursue them for a refund of payments from the initial Repayment Insurance Loan?
   
2. If so, what spreadsheet should I be using to calculate any interest?
   
3. Is there any way I can pursue them for an additional refund on the Consolidation Loan? Presumably they would have sent more details in the SAR if they had them.
   

I don't know if there is anything to get back here but I would be really grateful if someone could advise me.

 

Many thanks.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Without a record of payments you are a bit kippered in completing a spreadsheet.

 

I would press them on the statements/ transaction history by using the "failed SAR" letter from the CAG library (Top Left in Green)

 

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

Thanks ims. How will that move me forwards though?

 

I'm guessing they will say that they do not have any more documentation relating to the two loans. Is the fact that I have a copy of the original agreement and proof that the loan was paid off not going to be enough?

 

Will a failed SAR letter get them to send any further information?

 

Thanks ims.

[ims21]

Failed SAR letter might produce more info...we have seen it happen before.

 

The fact that you have the agreement etc is goo enough to lodge a PPI claim....really what I was saying is that without the record of payments you won't be able to accurately work out what the rfund should be and you will need to take their word for any figure they come up with.

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

I understand ims. Should the Failed SAR letter refer specifically to the two loan accounts? Also, if their response comes up with no further information, do I just hit them with what I've got and take a view on their offer if they make one? I suppose I have no other option realistically.

 

I'll send the Failed SAR letter as soon as you advise me on the above. I really appreciate your help.

 

Thanks.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Yes, in the failed SAR letter you can detail exactly what you want.

 

If they fail to come up with anything then you send them the fos questionnaire and copies of what you have by way of evidence and then, as you say, take a view on any offer they make.

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

OK. I have just received a response to my failed SAR letter today, contents as follows:

 

Thank you for your letter dated x stating that documents and lists of transactions and charges are missing from the information provided to you.

Please note that I am unable to provide copy statements or transactional data for accounts closed more than six years ago as this information is no longer held by the bank.

On receipt of your original request we instigated a full search of your accounts. I can confirm that all the personal information found relating to your Data Subject Access Request was sent to you on x in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 and therefore our obligations under the Act have been met.

I regret I am unable to assist you further.

 

So, from previous advice received in this thread, I propose to send them a letter by recorded delivery along the following lines.

 

Further to earlier correspondence I believe that I have been the subject of mis-sold PPI in connection with a Personal Loan Agreement Account X dated X. This Personal Loan Agreement Loan clearly itemises the Repayment Protection Element of the loan consisting of Amount of premium X; Amount of Loan X; Total Charge for Credit X; APR X; Total amount payable X; Repayment initial repayment X; 41 further monthly repayments of X. I also believe that this loan, along with the mis-sold PPI , was subsequently incorporated in a Consolidation Loan with you, Account Number x dated x. I have enclosed photocopies of documentation relating to both loans. This documentation clearly shows that PPI was applied to both loans. This documentation was recently supplied by you in response to my recent Subject Access Request.

I have also enclosed a FOS questionnaire which details the reasons that I believe prove that the PPI was mis-sold. I want you to repay me the full amount of PPI contained within these two accounts along with any interest charged. I look forward to your early response.

 

Is this the right approach? Am I missing anything here? As I said earlier in the thread I would be happy to take a view on any offer they made.

 

Once again, thanks for any help or advice provided.

[ims21]

Go for it and see what they come back with

 

ims

[Subliminal Sam]

Thanks for your advice ims - again! I'll fire the letter off and keep you abreast of developments.