Is Default still Valid after winning back PPI? Natwest loan defaulted in 2008.

[supasta1]

Hi,

 

I have a Natwest loan that was defaulted in 2008.

 

Since then I have successfully won back my PPI,

 

does this have any bearing on the default as the amounts etc would now be all wrong?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

[BankFodder]

I think that this is a very important question.

 

I do think that if you can show that

 

1. the PPI was mis-sold
   
2. that - "but for" the PPI mis-selling, you would have been able to keep up with the loan repayments, then I think that they have a very serious case to answer.
   

 

The only way you will ever win this argument is to take them to court over it - but I can imagine that if you issued the court papers, they would eventually start thinking very seriously about their position. If anyone got a judgment on this it would open up a can of worms for lenders everywhere and I expect that they would see the wisdom of cleaning up your file on a confidential no-admission basis.

 

I I were going to take them to court then I would consider including a claim under s.140 CCA using the PPI mis-selling to demonstrate the unfairness of the relationship. I would ask for the annullment of the entire agreement on that basis and the refund of all money paid.

 

It would be quite an extreme claim to make but the right judge would see the sense of it. The lenders and the CRAs would be very worried about it.

 

I think that your suggestion is the natural consequence of the PPI mis-selling and I think that it is the way that victims of the mis-selling dishonesty can get serious Pay-Back.

[supasta1]

It's a long story but i did not actually stop making my payments, the bank refused to take them.

 

As you can imagine this caused me serious suffering and now my credit file is ruined.

 

I need to take some serious advice on this but I really just do not know who can take this on for me, I want to go to court about it I really do.

 

Natwest have financially ruined me and my credit file over nothing.

 

I feel they have completely taken advantage of the position they have over me.

 

I just wish I knew what I could do about it.

[BankFodder]

In that case, tell us the whole story and let us know what evidence you have

[supasta1]

OK, I am at work at the moment and this will take some time. I shall start when I finish tonight if that is OK

[BankFodder]

That's fine. Please make it succinct, bullet-pointed, chronological and well spaced for easy reading

 

Ta

[havinastella]

subbing

[supasta1]

OK, I will do my best

[supasta1]

OK, I have been searching through my old files last night and because I want to get this completely right I have today ordered alll my statements again for the last 10 years so please bear with me.

 

Thanks

[supasta1]

1. April 2005 – My girlfriends student account was shut down with Natwest due to no money being paid for some time.
   
2. 27 June 2005 - Last loan payment left my account as normal by direct debit
   
3. July 2005 – My debit card was swallowed by cash machine and I was informed to contact bank. I was advised by bank that my card had been recalled and all my accounts were to be shut down. I was told that the accounts were being closed as I was financially associated with my girlfriend and they had recently closed her account.
   
4. They advised that my single account, loan account and joint account were all being closed and I would not be allowed to make any more payments toward my loan.
   
5. I had not received any warning, or letters that this was to happen. All statements for each account are available and show the sudden way each account was shut down. I had never missed a loan payment. My accounts had been ran perfectly, I have had the same job with a regular income for 10 years solid.
   
6. The same time Natwest shut my accounts I received my first Mortgage from Northern Rock, I was not in financial difficulty.
   
7. 23 Sep 2005 – Default notice fee charged to my current account
   
8. 23 Sep 2005 – Default notice fee charged to my joint account
   
9. 12 Oct 2005 – Default notice fee charged to my current account
   
10. 12 Oct 2005 – Default notice fee charged to my joint account
    
11. (not sure why both accounts were charged twice, I assumed my current account, one for account and one for loan account)
    
12. I immediately began arguing with Natwest about the disgusting way I was being treated, I refused to pay any money to them because of the way they had treat me and the way they were now inflating the balances on each account with interest and charges (the most stressful few years of my life).
    
13. After searching on the internet for advice on what I could do as I felt completely lost and alone I began reading about reclaiming bank charges. I began this process straight away for my account and the joint account.
    
14. 9 March 2007 – Received letters from Natwest for repayment of bank charges
    
15. Offered a refund of £1085.35 for my personal account
    
16. Offered a refund of £373.54 for my joint account
    
17. I immediately responded and accepted these payments. Natwest contacted me and advised that this money would be paid into my accounts to clear my balances. I wrote to Natwest disagreeing and advised them that as my accounts were currently under disagreement that I required cheques sending directly to me. I received a letter from Natwest advising that my query was being investigated and they would get back to me once they had conducted an investigation of my situation.
    
18. Months and months passed with me being fobbed off until I received a letter advising me that my claim for bank charges was now on hold until the outcome of a test case.
    
19. I disputed this as I had received offers of payments (letters I still have). I was told that it was on hold and that was it. I felt I was again being treat unfairly but had to accept it.
    
20. 21st August 2007 – My accounts were passed over to Rockwell debt collection agency with a total outstanding balance of £7835.33.
    
21. After months of harassment I agreed to pay a sum of £3000 in full and final settlement in relation to my 3 accounts with Natwest on the 8th Feb 2008 (My account, joint account, loan account). This was accepted although they refused to clear my credit file which was now ruined.
    
22. I forgot about my accounts and tried to forget about all the stress of the last few years although it was very difficult as I could not get any credit facilities and no one would touch me to remortgage because of the defaults on my credit file. This has seriously affected me over years as I am paying much more than I should be.
    
23. In 2010 I sent a SAR to Natwest, I noticed when the information was returned that PPI had been added onto the loan I had with Natwest without my knowledge.
    
24. I immediately started a claim for the return of my PPI which was rejected by Natwest. I took my PPI claim and my claim for bank charges which I believed should have been honoured to the FOS.
    
25. Bank charges claim was rejected and am awaiting an Ombudsmans review and final decision. Natwest advised the FOS that i still owed them alot of money and that my accounts were still open with them. I explained that they were shut but FOS called me a liar. I sent him the letter from rockwell stating they were shut and he still wasnt bothered. Natwest have done nothing but lie throughout the whole investigation and it still went against me???
    
26. I was informed by the FOS in October 2011 that Natwest would be refunding my PPI, I had calculated the amount to be around £2500.
    
27. In November I received a cheque for £250 from Natwest who said that my case for PPI was now closed. I immediately telephoned the FOS who advised me to speak to Natwest directly for a breakdown of how they came to that figure.
    
28. Natwest had advised me that my total refund was £2700 but the rest of the money had been paid into the 3 accounts I had with them to pay off balances owed. I explained that I did not have any accounts with Natwest and that I had not had any for a number of years. The lady stressed that I had 3 active accounts. After a few days of arguing and threats of court action, Natwest agreed to send me the money I was owed.
    
29. They now acknowledge that I paid an amount of money in full and final settlement to Rockwell but they refuse to close my accounts on there systems. I have started receiving statements again for my accounts which state I still owe them money??
    
30. I have all the correspondence at the time of my full and final settlement in 2008 stating that the payments were for full and final settlement of the 3 accounts.
    
31. Natwest will not tell me why they are leaving my accounts open??
    
32. Since I have been looking back into this mess I have recently joined credit expert to review my credit file. Even though I received Default Notices and paid default notice fees in 2005 these accounts are still on my credit file nearly 7 years after they were originally defaulted.
    
33. My personal account on my credit file states – Balance – satisfied
    
34. Default date – 07/10/2006
    
35. Last updated – 15/02/2008
    
36. My Loan account states - Balance – Partial settlement
    
37. Where it should say default it just has 12 red circles each with a number 4 in??
    
38. Settled – 15/02/2008
    
39. If I received defaults in 2005 for these accounts why do they have this information on my credit file? Is it to just screw me over for as long as possible?
    
40. I have disputed this information with both Natwest and Experian and none are interested and both refuse to remove or change the information.
    
41. As I never stopped paying my loan then I dispute that the information should never have been there any way because it paints completely an unfair picture of what happened, never mind it being up there for all to see for 7 years.
    
42. Because of the stress and grief Natwest have caused to myself and my now Wife (who has had many separate problems not mentioned here) and the amount of time I have had to spend trying to rectify this sorry situation, she has now filed for divorce and my 3 children are suffering as a consequence.
    

 

I apologise if I have not been completely clear, I have just tried to keep it as simple as possible. I have all satements/letters etc

 

Any advice would be extremely helpful, I just want to put and end to this whole sorry affair once and for all, Natwest have bullied and abused me for long enough.

 

Any clarification about anything then please ask

Edited February 22, 2012 by supasta1
added something

[BankFodder]

In respect of points 3,4,5 is there anything in writing about this?

In particular is there any evidence that they refused to accept payments against your loan? For instance are there any letters - or are there any statements whch show that payments were refused?

 

Have you done an SAR?

[BankFodder]

Point 41 - you say that you never stopped paying your loan. Do you mean - until they prevented you?

[supasta1]

No, Natwest were very clever as all correspondence was by telephone. It is quite clear on the statements what happened.

 

Yes I mean until they prevented me.

 

When they first closed my accounts they offered me a high interest rate loan to cover my overdrafts and the rest of my loan. I refused as I did not want to pay loads of extra money when I was having no problems paying them before. They said this would be the only way I could avoid a default unless I could pay everything immediately which I obviously couldn't do.

 

What about the default situation? Defaulted in 2005 yet updated much later on my credit file?

 

I think I will SAR them again today.

 

I would never have just stopped paying my loan at that time, it would make no sense. I was not in difficulty and I was trying to purchase my first home, it just would not add up.

 

I can show you the statements of account, looking at them alone is pretty shocking.

 

Also the fact that they did not honour the payments for my bank charges, it's like they are just laughing at me constantly.

[supasta1]

The only thing I received in writing was when I received default notices.

 

I requested the reasons why my accounts were closed in writing but they refused. It has just all been made to look like it was all my fault, I guess they knew what they were doing was wrong and couldn't tell me in writing.

 

This must of happened to other people aswell

[BankFodder]

The only thing I received in writing was when I received default notices.

 

I requested the reasons why my accounts were closed in writing but they refused. It has just all been made to look like it was all my fault, I guess they knew what they were doing was wrong and couldn't tell me in writing.

 

This must of happened to other people aswell

Did they give you this refusal in writing?

[supasta1]

NO.... Credit management Services did everything over the telephone.

 

I have complained one last time in december and asked for a full explanation as to why each account was shut, why they are now still open and what exactly is and has been going on with them.

 

I received a letter on Monday saying I should have a response to these queries within the next 20 days, so this should make for some interesting reading.

 

I really want the issue with my credit file fixing, that is the most important thing to me at the moment.

 

Because of the devious way they have acted do you think I have no chance of taking this further??

 

Everything seems so clearly wrong to me but how does it look from the outside?

 

I went to CAB when it first happened and they said that Natwest could not do this and advised me to see a solicitor but i could not afford this at the time.

[BankFodder]

Well sorry if I feel a bit piqued but I don't understand why everyone is prepared to conduct such important busiess on the phone and not insist on getting the phonecall written up in a confirmatory letter.

No wonder these banks and the rest are able to dominate you all so easily. It is like leading lambs to the slaughter.

And here you are, you sent them a letter in December and didn't hear anything until this week but still you did nothing to chase them up or to badger them for a response - and now they promise you a response in 20 days and

 

1. you believe it and
   
2. you think that it is going to say anything interesting or useful to you.
   

I don't know what you are prepared to do about it now - but if you're going to do anything then you had better start taking control.

 

 

I would start off sending SARs to everyone and keeping on their backs until you felt that you had dragged out of them all of the info that they have.

 

 

I would compose a careful - non-emotive factual bullet pointed letter setting out everything that has happened to you since 2005 and send it to them - and ask them to comment and to clarify if there is anything that they disagree on.

I would complain that they haven't given you a timely reply to your letter of December and that asking for a further 20 days is not acceptable.

Point out to them that they have a duty under BCOBS to communicate with you fairly and that as they have failed to do this you are now beginning a formal complaint which you want to go to the Ombudsman.

Don't let go, don't let go, don't let go.

If they come back with a response to your complaint, tell them that you still want to go to the FOS. Don't let go.

 

 

I really don't see how you can have let them treat you and your family like this for so long without rising up in a fit of rage.

 

 

It seems to me that there are two issues here - the account closure and the PPI. They are not really connected with each other asnd must be solved separately.

I can tell you that despite your explanation, I still don't find it easy to understand. I shall have to keep on reading it over.

However, you will only make headway on this if you are prepared to be angry and kickarse. There is no other way.

Do everything in writing, lay down your own deadlines and stick to them. Don't accept flannel - and flannel is what you have been accepting so far.

If there are going to be phone calls then start recording them. Get a Truecall. Put everything in writing. Accumulate evidence.

Don't let go.

Otherwise don't bother, sorry.

[BankFodder]

Have you got the full and final settlement agreement of your payment - point 29 in writing?

[supasta1]

I know I should have done things differently but hind sight is a brilliant thing.

 

At the time I did not believe I had any options, I was naive and trusted this large organisation. It is only the last few years that I have found out banks are really terrible organisations. They did bully me and I did not do enough to fight them as I had no idea what I could do or who I could turn to.

 

Now I want to fight, my life has fell to pieces and it is all down to them.

 

I will continue and do my best to get some justice

 

I accept and agree with your critiscm and will roll my sleeves up and fight.

[BankFodder]

Well, sorry for going off the deep end - because it is millions of people who allow themselves to be lead in thesame way and sometimes I suppose that I get a bit worked up!!

 

We'll help you of course.

Take the steps that I have suggested so far.

SARs

Letter

Complaints

Call-recorder

See what you get and let us know

[BankFodder]

What abouty the FF agreement - do you have that in writing?

[supasta1]

Yes I have that in writing

[supasta1]

img-223133116.pdf

 

Here is are examples of Natwests lies

 

This is surrounding the bank charges issue which is currently ongoing with FOS

 

I have attached the original letter from Natwest, a response from FOS why they do not uphold my complaint, my response to that letter, Full and final settlement letter, and other various evidence to prove Natwest are full of lies.

 

FOS were not interested in my evidence

 

Sorry this is all just relating to the bank charges as it is all I have at work, just an example of how much Natwest are prepared to lie

[supasta1]

If you look at the dates on the offer letter and then the dates on the response from Natwest and the printouts from there systems then it is clear that I had in fact been in constant contact with Natwest over these issues and yet FOS still refuse to believe it....

 

Even after I sent the letter from Rockwell the FOS still accuse me of owing the money to natwest??

 

What more can i do?

[supasta1]

Any way I will send SAR to Natwest again tomorrow and then I will write a very long and detailed letter with complete history of my saga from day one until now as advised and ask them to clarify any points they do not agree with. I will send an evidence file with all the statements/letters etc i have received over the years and see what happens.

 

I will keep posted but a response may take some time.