@mbna Sold on to Idem

[victoria_siempre]

Hi guys

 

I have a letter from MBNA saying a/c is sold to above trading as Idem services and also enclosed a letter from Idem services which strangely says ‘…there is no current requirement for you to amend your details as we have arranged for your payments to be redirected to us from MBNA.’; but they do kindly provide their bank details should I choose to pay them direct and they’ve kindly provided a shiny new a/c number for me.

 

I was making token payments with MBNA with interest and charges frozen. I see from our forums that Idem is part of Paragon but their letter says they’re a trading style of Idem Capital Securities Ltd which in turn is an appointed representative of Mortgage Trust Services PLC (I suppose it helps explain who you are when caught shagging someone who was not your contractual partner).

 

I guess that this is a move towards a CCJ and charging order which does not bother me greatly as equity is zero or near zero. I also guess that they’ll attempt to take the p*ss with penal charges before going for the CCJ and that, despite appearances to the contrary, things are not as they seem in that MBNA appear to be happily acting as their collecting agents. (As an aside, I see that the bearded one is exercising rights to buy the V bit of MBNA Europe and that Barclay’s offer for the bigger bit has been rejected as being too low – at this rate Barclays will be doing our funerals next).

 

Anyway, I am pondering on plan which is centred on the provisions of the EU credit directive and holding the new boys accountable for everything; meanwhile have any fellow CAGers had one of these NOAs?

 

x

 

v

[victoria_siempre]

Oh dear, oh dear

 

I can't find an extant CC licence for Idem and am reluctant to pay money without one; perhaps the guests can advise. (Mortgage Trust Services does have one but does not show Idem trading styles- come on guys get your act together).

 

The 'phone number for Idem 0845 196 0495 gives a curious recorded message that Britannica Recoveries has passed the account to Idem Services effective Jan 30 and meanwhile one should call MBNA; I am not making this up. I once read a story of delinquent accounts being parked off balance sheet during due diligence. A friend in Chester recently asked me the difference between a cynic and a pessimist; in Chester a pessimist is someone in full possession of the facts.

 

x

 

v

[citizenB]

A friend in Chester recently asked me the difference between a cynic and a pessimist; in Chester a pessimist is someone in full possession of the facts.

 

 

 

Sorry, I had to laugh .. For the rest of your query, I will try and find someone for you.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Citizen

 

I am quite chilled and have 'phoned Bank of Yank to ask:

 

 

1. Why have you changed last 8 digits of my MBNA a/c number to a sequence starting 999? (It’s like that don’t kiss geezers heart attack advert).
   
2. Who the f*ck are Idem Servicing and why don’t they have a CC licence – the nice Scouse chap in Chester checks this but says all will be well come Jan 30.
   
3. Will they honour my repayment agreement? ‘Dim the lights, you can guess the rest.’ And I must ask Idem when they exist come the dawn of January.
   

 

Sherlock might suspect that Idem here are spawn of MBNA; I am merely firing off requests for clarification as to who allegedly owes what to whom on what account number to be repaid under what terms.

 

As Will said of DCAs:

 

“O wonder!

How many goodly creatures are there here!

How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world

That has such people in't!”

 

Re-quoted by Eric Blair (MI6) in 1984.

 

x

 

v

[leopard lady]

I have had the same letter today Victoria!!!

[victoria_siempre]

Thanks for the info ll

 

I don't feel so ronely now, as Kim Il might have sung.

 

x

 

v

[SingleDadtoTwo]

Same situation here. Got a letter today saying debt sold on to Idem.

[victoria_siempre]

Thanks for the update SDT and keep ‘em coming guys; information is power and fuel to the pyre of the imminent demise of the Chester mire.

 

I do not believe that this is a genuine absolute assignment but rather an off balance sheet device; but hey, the only fool to suffer shall be he who buys this crock of s***e – a Diamond geezer methinks. No matter, I take MBNA to be a truthful, honest and trustworthy company and take them at face value; I have ceased payment to them as they say they no longer own the account. I might make payments to someone else when they establish that they own the account in accordance with UK and EU law.

 

Colleagues should be mindful of the changing account numbers trick; in a single letter my account number has been changed twice and no closing balance of a terminated account is stated; now, why would that be?

 

x

 

v

[SingleDadtoTwo]

I've found out some more about Idem:

 

It seems that MBNA have sold on a portfolio of debt for £55.7M, which has been bought by Paragon Group (of which Idem is part). The portfolio consists of debt on which customers have defaulted.

 

West Midlands-based Paragon calls itself “the leading independent provider of mortgages to residential property investors”.

 

Of concern is that Paragon stated " ... the MBNA deal would be earnings enhancing within this financial year."

 

The above are extracts from the actual source which I've given below. It seems possible that Paragon will attempt to 'encourage' people to pay and who knows, maybe recommend that they take a new mortgage? (We all know that's improper, I'm sure).

 

But, looking on the bright side, it seems like a genuine sale of the debt onto a separate company (as opposed to an internal relocation). This usually means that the debt has been bought for a fraction of the initial amount which, in turn, means that Idem MAY be open to offers. Good news if you can scrape up the funds.

 

For what it's worth, MBNA (indirectly, I should add) offered to accept approximately 60% of the debt in 'full and final' settlement if I was able to pay it (I wasn't). As it's now sold on to Idem, maybe a much lower offer will be accepted. Time will tell.

 

Original source for the information is the Liverpool Daily Post (I tried to post a link but the site won't let me as I have made so few posts). A quick search on Google will find it though.

 

nb: MBNA itself has been put up for sale by parent Bank of America.

[victoria_siempre]

Good stuff SDT

 

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldpbusiness/business-local/2011/12/21/mbna-sells-debt-portfolio-92534-29986198/

 

Though £55mill is small potatoes so I guess we must be blessed to be in the exceptionally poor cohort.

 

x

 

v

x

[Mehim]

one wonders if experto will send my stuff back to mbna and sell it anew to this lot lol. I keep getting lost in the maze of financial intrigue

[Jonnys100]

I have been reading this post with great interest. I too have been sent a letter from MBNA informing me that my outstanding balance is being sold to Idem Capital Securities Ltd. As happened with Victoria, it also contained a letter from idem servicing telling me my new account number(which begins 587...).

 

I agree in group action and would like to take part / help out wherever I can.

 

Victoria - I am in a similar position to you whereby, after a great deal of effort, I managed to get MBNA to agree to accepting a token payment whilst freezing all charges and interest. Have you now stopped payments altogether on your account and if so have you contacted idem to let them know?

 

Jonny

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Jonny

 

Welcome to CAG.

 

MBNA have changed my a/c number prior to changing it again to some Idem no; at no point is an a/c balance stated. The point here is that a CCJ (sent to a previous address) has been known to appear for a random a/c no. and random amount and it is difficult for one to challenge this. It is therefore vital to maintain the integrity of the audit trail.

 

I have stopped paying MBNA because they say they no longer own the account. I do not start paying Idem because they have no Consumer Credit Licence and I have not communicated with them because their ‘phone has some damn fool recorded message. I am minded to pay them if they stick to MBNA’s repayment agreement with me, but I shan’t hold my breath. Alternatively, one could continue paying MBNA as invited in their letter and see what transpires; I would though get confirmation of the closing balance before MBNA passes this mortal coil and an administrative error renders this impossible.

 

I shall happily share experiences and tactics and there are active colleagues on an adjacent thread; store your grain and prepare for war.

 

x

 

v

[Jonnys100]

Hi Victoria,

 

Many thx for your reply. I originally got all my advice from National Debtline ( so I will give them a call later this week to see what they have to say about this!

 

Although just a minor point, it's made me angry that the letters sent to me were dated 25th Jan regarding the sale which is taking place on the 30th Jan. The letters arrived on my doorstep on Saturday 28th which gives me 2 calendar days notice and 0 working days notice!

 

It also makes me angry as I have recently become aware of the method of Fractional Reserve banking used in our financial system. This basically allows financial institutions to lend money that they don't have and enables them to charge interest on this non-existant money! This would be fraud for people like you and I but not for our beloved banking system. Maybe I could make a claim saying that I don't owe them anything since the money didn't exist in the first place! Anyway.....just having a moan!

 

I will keep you posted and share any further info that comes my way!

 

"I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick butt........and I'm all out of bubble gum"!!!

Edited January 29, 2012 by Jonnys100

[cashins]

Mine went off to Global Arrow but subbing on this to see what's afoot your side.

 

David

[toxicdebt]

I too recently got a letter of Assignment to Global Arrow - A week after they wrote to me stating they had returned it to MBNA after I informed them it was in dispute. Subbing to this out of interest.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi guys

 

I was wrong. It hurts to say it. Idem have bought the book. They will (or say they will say) honour existing arrangements with MBNA.

 

So, one question remains, ‘How will they show a nett profit on this caper within fiscal 2012?’ Ah ha, accounts transferred are property owners and Paragon (their preferred customer facing brand stye) thinks it can do COs on sufficient numbers to de-delinquentize.

 

So far, so good yet the bad or good news is that they have no paperwork with the transfer; the moral ambivalence is that I don’t understand how Schrodinger’s cat threw light on Ockham’s razor or Pascal’s wager. I say I believe in God because it might be dangerous not to were he to exist and be vengeful; I must not peek lest I display doubt to God. I have no such fears of DCAs and can put them to strict proof thereof.

 

x

 

v

[Jonnys100]

I say I believe in God because it might be dangerous not to were he to exist and be vengeful; I must not peek lest I display doubt to God. I have no such fears of DCAs and can put them to strict proof thereof.

 

x

 

Hi Victoria,

 

Thanks for the updaqte. Does this mean that you will mantain payments according to your existing agreement with MBNA? I didn't have a chance to stop my monthly DD going due to the hideous notice period, so was planning to do a bit more research before pulling the payment so I'm interested to see how you get on?

 

I like your quote about the divine one. I believe that God exists, but as pure energy i.e. Love, life itself and the essence of all creation, not a bearded old man in the sky. The real God is within all of us and it is a shame that most people look externally for God and answers when I believe it exists internally, within all of us. Unfortunately, I realised too late that the current financial system of encouraging people into debt is a form of economic slavery and a way of disconnecting people from themselves - I mean just look at all the problems that financial debt causes - marriage break-ups, drug and alcohol abuse etc etc. It makes more sense to me to bail out ordinary people instead of the banks, since we are the economy and not the banks. Anyway, I digress!

[toxicdebt]

So it Seems Idem have bought the book of MBNA's debtors who have entered into a payment agreement and Global Arrow has bought those who have not. Or am I getting it wrong?

[victoria_siempre]

Hi guys

 

I do not claim to be privy to any especial inside information. CAGers have so far reported 3 DCAs to whom accounts have been sold. The details of my account are outlined above; beyond that I know b*gger all; you would know whether you had an agreement or not and that would be another small piece of the jigsaw.

 

x

 

v

[cashins]

Hi guys

 

I do not claim to be privy to any especial inside information. CAGers have so far reported 3 DCAs to whom accounts have been sold. The details of my account are outlined above; beyond that I know b*gger all; you would know whether you had an agreement or not and that would be another small piece of the jigsaw.

v

 

In my experience when large numbers of accounts are sold in this manner, the buyers don't get to pick and choose what accounts they get.

 

As a general rule, (despite what may be threatened), legal action for recovery of a debt is unlikely if an existing payment plan is in place. Simple reason is that a judge would question why the case was in court in the 1st place. This would not however stop them going for a charging order if there was equity to support it.

 

As you are aware Idem are part of Paragon which also have another outfit called Arden Credit Management. They sometimes pop up for harrasment purposes.

 

David

[victoria_siempre]

Hi David

 

Thank you for the Arden tag reminder: I follow your line of thought but still wish to proof your general rule. Were they to accept all extant repayment arrangements, they could not turn a dollar in a single year except by buying the book for the principal of less than the sum of one year’s delinquent payments. I should have to ask myself why I would continue to make token payments to someone whose objective interest will not be best served by accepting them.

 

x

 

v

[cashins]

Hi David

 

Thank you for the Arden tag reminder: I follow your line of thought but still wish to proof your general rule. Were they to accept all extant repayment arrangements, they could not turn a dollar in a single year except by buying the book for the principal of less than the sum of one year’s delinquent payments. I should have to ask myself why I would continue to make token payments to someone whose objective interest will not be best served by accepting them.

 

x

 

v

 

Hi V

 

Your logic is correct.

 

What I said was that the courts are not sympathetic to recovery cases where a realistic payment plan is in place, (although they will consider charging orders to secure the debt).

 

That however will not stop Paragon threatening hellfire/brimstone and generally trying to make your lives a misery in the hope they can scare you into upping your payments and or agreeing to a voluntary charging order, that's what DCA's do for a living.

 

David.

[SingleDadtoTwo]

Hi V

... courts are not sympathetic to recovery cases where a realistic payment plan is in place, (although they will consider charging orders to secure the debt).

 

Just so we don't frighten anyone, my understanding is that courts will not consider charging orders unless a CCJ is already in place and is unpaid. It's unlikely that people that have a DMP (or arrangement) in place, will have a CCJ (possible, but not probable) so a charging order is unlikely.

[SingleDadtoTwo]

Hi David

 

Were they to accept all extant repayment arrangements, they could not turn a dollar in a single year except by buying the book for the principal of less than the sum of one year’s delinquent payments.

 

Agreed. Idem's (Paragon's) statement that they expect turn profit in year 1 is of concern because we all wonder how they will achieve that. They have few options:

 

1. "Encourage" people to pay more than they presently are. A scheme they might term "pro-active debt management"

2. "Encourage" people to take another loan to re-pay the loan that Idem now hold. This is a possibility as Paragon has a secured loan lending facility.

3. Invite "full and final" offers

 

My advice to anyone reading this is (not for you V, I know you're very clued up on all this stuff):

 

If you haven't already done so, RUN (don't walk) to National Debtline or CCCS (both are non-profit organizations) and enquire about getting on a Debt Management Plan (DMP). You'll get three immediate benefits:

 

A. Peace of mind. You cannot put a price on this. You'll also feel empowered because these organizations have a ton of information that WILL help you. Knowledge is power and you won't feel frightened or threatened any more.

 

B. Confidence. Once you're on a DMP you can request that all contact be made via your DMP provider. You don't have to accept being harrassed. Getting annoying phone calls? No sweat. Just tell the caller, firmly and politely, who is managing your DMP and give them the reference number. That's it. If they don't seem to listen to you, just keep repeating the above information or hang up.

 

C. Security. When you've been on a DMP for a while, and met your obligations by making your agreed payments, contact from creditors will drop off. Keep making your payments and you're unlikely to hear from your creditors again except for them sending you statutory notices. Take great comfort from the fact that making these payments means the chance of a creditor getting a CCJ against you is massively reduced (to practically zero because judges will have no truck with a company trying to get a CCJ when you're already making payments that are within your agreed budget). And, if you don't have a CCJ, a creditor cannot get a charging order against you (your CCJ needs to be unpaid too before the court will consider this)

 

The day you talk with your DMP provider is the day you take control of your debt. It's a great day. One last word of advice: There are a lot of DMP providers and most of them charge a fee. DON'T USE THEM. Instead, use a non-profit organisation like CCCS. They will setup your plan for you, give you advice, make all payments to your creditors and all for free. This way, every penny you pay to your plan goes to pay off your debt.

 

ps: This advice is intended for the hundreds of people that read these threads without actively participating. I hope it's useful.