Please help me *WON*

[Spooky3]

Hi All

 

I would really appreciate some good advice so heres my story summerised

 

Been with my catalogue for over 10 years no problem until I received a package with some goods missing in 2001

 

Alerted my catalogue and filled in the forms asap that they sent me, they did a investigation and came back to me with proof I received the package. I immediately replied saying I didn't state package didn't come I stated two items total of £26+ was missing from the package so I need credit for this amount

 

Anyway went through long sick spell shortly after had to stop work because of health and other personal issues etc. One day I was going through my accounts and noticed they never gave me credit for these goods or even got back to me and I know they got my correspondent because they wrote to me twice stating they have proof I received the package and I replied back to both correspondents.

 

This is where the battle began I have written loads of letters to the catalogue and even posted on their website. They do not dispute or offer any explanation as to why they didn't deal with this. One reply said I left it too long to bring it to their attention and I replied back no I alerted you immediately it was you that failed to do your job and rectify it. I tried to fight it and all their responses were unacceptable so I said I want my account closed and they need to erase this money they owe me. I paid of my account less the amount owed.

 

They placed loads of admin cost on to this amount immediately which I argued and said it is rude of them to do this because they should be looking into why they didn't deal with my missing items at the time.

 

By now it was over £60 and they passed me onto their internat dept collection departmentn and I kept arguing. They sent me a letter in Nov 2003 (yes it has been going on for two years) stating as a gesture of goodwill I can pay the amount of £26+ within 14 days of the date on the letter or it will be sent to baliffs. Guess what they did they posted the letter to me 12 days after the date it was written and the VERY NEXT DAY IN THE POST was a letter from their baliffs dept the cost had gone up to over £91.

 

A concerning neighbour arranged for me to be collected and taken to an internet/phone cafe because of my disability where I phoned the internal dept department. I tried to explain things to the lady on the phone and she was rude and said but we called you many time to sort this out. I told her that is impossible considering I do not have a phone and haven't had one in over 2 years and I am calling her from a internet cafe. She went quiet and couldn't answer that and said you need to pay I said no way and especially not £91+. I also pointed out that this was passed onto debt section before 14days were up. She told me to get rid of the problem by paying the £26+.

 

As much as it pained me to pay for goods I didn't receive I told her I will work out from my tight budget how I can pay this off. At first I told her 50p a week and she said no way thats not good enough I said I need to recalculate to see if I can send more. Right there and then from the internet cafe I sent a fax stating my friend is sending a cheque for £6+ in the post that same day and £10 xmas money govt gives people on benefits in Dec I will send and final £10 will be second week in Jan when I get my next payment.

 

I did exactly what I said I would do and by 2nd week Jan 04 I thought that was the end of it. Then July 2004 I receive a letter saying account is still outstanding over £151. I wrote again to the catalogues Managing Director with copies of all my letters and briefing them on the whole issue and guess what they wrote back saying they are giving me a one off opportunity to settle the debt by paying 50% at this time it was over £160

 

If I struggled to pay £26+ which I only did to rid myself of the consent harrassment how could I even comtemplate paying £80 I wrote them back stating after all I have written and explained to them about the situation my finances and health suffering because of this to offer a 50% reduction they are toying with my life and health.

 

They passed me onto Wescot Credit Services I told them the same story and said I can't pay and furthermore feel its an outrageous injustice. Wescot was quiet for over a year and now they have passed me onto Fredrickson International Limited its now over £180 who have written me a letter saying they are going to issue proceeding for the county court which will take it to over £260 and baliffs will come and seize goods.

 

These are all added cost because as mentioned above I paid the £26+. I know £26+ it may not sound like a lot but it was the principle would you throw £26+ down the drain, well thats how I viewed it because I do not have the items of clothing. This has been going on since 2001 and after watching whistleblower baliffs last night the threat of baliffs coming to my door is worrying for me because they all seems like thugs. I am disabled and I heard their views on how they treat the disabled on the programme and I just want to know how I can make this problem go away.

 

Can anyone offer some advice I am housebound and have mobility problems so any online advice will be appreciated.

[dayglo]

your request for help is noted... I'll try to put some advice together, don't panic.

There is more than enough help around here, we'll sort this together I'm sure.

[dayglo]

in my opinion, the first thing we need to do is formally dispute the debt via a letter (sent recorded delivery) to the Catalogue company.

 

After this, we send another letter, again recorded delivery, to the DCA, informing them that the debt is 'in dispute' and that no action can be taken whilst this dispute exists.

 

The next thing to we need to do is to work out whether or not we should allow them to begin court proceedings, and when they do, indicate that we wish to 'defend' in full the case.

 

I think I'm right in saying that no-one can send baillifs unless there is a court judgement against you. From my understanding of what you have said in your moving post, I can't see any judge finding against you. I know that doesn't help remove the unpleasent letters, but you appear to have a solid case.

 

Having read through this again, I'm not sure I'm the most qualified person to help, put please be patient - more help will arive very soon I'm sure.

 

Good luck.

Dayglo

[dayglo]

There are several laws which cover harassment of debtors by creditors as well as recognised guidelines which set out what is considered unreasonable behaviour by creditors.

The Administration of Justice Act 1970 S.40 makes it a Criminal Offence for a creditor or a creditor's agent (often a debt collection agency) to make demands (for money), which are aimed at causing "alarm, distress or humiliation, because of their frequency or publicity or manner". Equally, a creditor will be committing an offence if they falsely imply that non-payment of the debt will lead to criminal proceedings; or the creditor pretends to be someone they are not e.g. a court official or bailiff. It is also an offence to send a person a document which looks like it has been sent from a court.

If you feel you are subject to Debt Collection Harassment then this too could be classed as a criminal offence. Harassment can be verbal or in writing and would include making repeated calls to your workplace or in anti social hours. The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a Criminal Offence for any person to pursue a course of action "which they know, or ought to know, amounts to harassment of another person".

The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has produced a set of Debt Collection and Debt Management Guidelines which sets out the types of debt collection practices which the OFT considers to be unfair. The guidelines do not apply to routine debt collection but are applicable to all accounts where payments have been missed, or are in arrears. The Guidelines include a section on 'contacting debtors at unreasonable times and intervals'. Whilst the guidance does not spell out the types/times of when contact should occur, it does provide a list of examples which it might consider unfair: repeatedly calling at unsociable hours, calling places of work, or calling on Neighbours and disclosing the reason they are making these enquiries.

If you think a creditor has broken the law or has breached these guidelines- you should first raise it with the creditor or collector concerned. To start this process you will need to gather evidence. The first step is to record the times and contents of visits and calls, and to save any threatening letters. You should then write a letter of complaint informing the creditor that you are aware of the Debt Collection Guidelines and believe they are in breach of these as well as possibly been in breach of section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act. Ask them to stop what they are doing. You must however, tell the creditor how you would prefer to be contacted. If the situation does not improve you can make a more formal complaint against a creditor.

If the creditor continues to harass then you can make a complaint to the local Trading Standards Department or go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau. If the problem does not get resolved you could send your complaint to the Office of Fair Trading - who do not usually take up individual cases but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information from various sources and can use it to remove the creditors Consumer Credit Licence.

If the behaviour of the creditor (or any bailiffs or credit collection companies acting on behalf of the creditor) becomes at all violent or extremely threatening the Police should be informed immediately.

[Rooster-UK]

I'm afraid that I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, but I've sent for the cavalry.

 

In the meantime, get the account into dispute to stop any further action. (Letters to the catalogue company and the debt collection agency).

 

Hold tight.

[MARTIN3030]

I think the reply by Dayglo gives all the information and links needed to address this.

It is quite comprehensive and should prove to be of assistance.

Very good reply Dayglo.

 

Other snippets and real case experiences adorn the Baliffs and debt section in the CAG site.

 

Over the last 3 months lots of information has become available,and as a result many of the myths and unknowns about Baliffs have been unearthed.

[Rooster-UK]

Thanks to both of you.

[Spooky3]

Dayglo, Rooster-UK and Martin3030

 

Thank you all for replying to me you don't know how pleasing it is to have someone listen to me and offer help.

 

Its going to take me some time to look at all the links you have provided so bear with me.

 

Let me point out that all correspondents I have received are in letter format I have never and will never provide them with my telephone number. This is how I manage to catch the lady out in 2003 when she said they have called me on numerous occassion I never even had a phone then. So they haven't been harrassing me by phone they just keep harrassing me by sending letters saying I have to pay.

 

Everytime a new debt collection agency writes to me I sent them a briefing of the issue more detailed than what I wrote above but it was not by recorded delivery Wescot was the only one that acknowledge my letter/fax and replied to it. Now the latest being Fredrickson International I sent on Friday 22nd Sept and today (28th Sept) I receive a notice of intent to issue court proceedings stating payment is due on 6 Oct 2006.

 

I notice you all state I should be sending record delivery although its difficult for me I will have to find someone to do this for me due to my disability because I really want this matter to go away now.

 

So just to clarify the first thing I need to do is send a letter to the catalogue company (I have done this many times in the past I have copies) but send it recorded delivery.

 

Every person I have written to on this matter I have stated I dispute this debt you know I even wrote to watchdog about it thats how much I was furious about this.

 

I will start a letter to the catalogue company, if you have any advice on what I should say or how to compose it I am open to suggestions.

 

I have to say way back when I wrote to Wescot stating I dispute this debt they wrote me a letter saying they act in good faith and will contact the catalogue company. What was upsetting is they eventually wrote back to me stating they have been intouch with the catalogue company who provided them with a breakdown of my account from when the missing items took place. The catalogue company is stating that there was a period of time that my account was zero and then I ordered more clothes so to then turn to them and say they owe me credit is inappropriate as my account reached zero at one time. I found this excuse lame because my initial letter to them started that going through my account I noticed that credit was never issued to me. I even asked them to send me copies of their terms and conditions stating this rule and they never did. So there next excuse was I took too long to alert them to this so I replied back stating its not my fault you didn't follow your credit procedure through effectively and on time so why should I suffer I also added if you can provide a detailed breakdown of my account (which they did at some point through this whole mess) that means you still have record of this transaction so you could have provided credit.

 

Till this day I have the copy of my account breakdown that wescot sent me and you can clearly see all the dates where admin charges have been placed on my account its sickening.

 

I know I have waffled on so I await any more advice you guys have to offer me and once again thank you all who have responded.

[dayglo]

I can't really add to the advice already. How do you feel about going to court and defending?

[Spooky3]

I can't really add to the advice already. How do you feel about going to court and defending?

 

Petrified!!!!

 

Do you think it will come to this or is this the only way it will end. Should I still write the letters for recorded delivery and if so is there anything specific I should say I won't be able to get them posted until next week.

[dayglo]

ok! It's difficult to tell how people feel sometimes. Some relish the thought of going to court and proving their point, others are less keen. I'll take it you fall into the latter bracket then.

 

I can't say for certain how this will end, but my feeling as that one paarty will have to at least begin court proceedings at some stage given the number of rounds of correspondence that has failed to satsify either party. I'll post more later on. Relax, we'll fix this.

[Rooster-UK]

Dayglo, Rooster-UK and Martin3030

 

Thank you all for replying to me you don't know how pleasing it is to have someone listen to me and offer help.

We try to look after the family.

[Spooky3]

If I have to go to court I will as this needs to stop now, I am more annoyed at the inconvience it will cause me getting to and from court due to my mobility problems and that it has got to this stage. I've still got my recorded letter to post I want them to go out this week its taken me so long because I have been feeling so poorly. If it went to court do you think I have a strong case?

[dayglo]

If it went to court do you think I have a strong case?

 

if what you have said above, in that you have been associated with a growing debt that began from receipt of products that you did not receive and that the catelogue company cannot prove that you received then YES you do have strong case.

 

one thing struck me though, when deliveries arrive, it's always bothered me that custom and practice says that you sign to take delivery of a package that has a 'packing slip' with it. On this slip lists everything that the sender believes is in the package. if you sign this, you agree that everything is there. Normally you have done this before you even open the package!

It could be that they could show that you 'have' received the goods and only your 'word' says that you didn't.

Do you think this could be relevant to your situation?

[Spooky3]

Dayglo

 

Yes I believe that is the case because I immediately informed them of items missing from the package and they did a investigation and came back to me stating they have proof I received the package and I replied back immediately saying I did not say I didn't receive the package I said two items were not in the package. Thats when I didn't hear from them again until I chased it up although it was a long time after like I said when I realised they never did credit me for these goods. But they are aware this sometimes happens because during my 10year plus with them it happened before and they credited me for the goods with no problem. Although I have no written proof of this anymore. In regards to your comments on the packing slip, you are correct you don't know if you have all the goods until you open the package which contains the delivery note as well.

 

In all their correspondents to me they have never said its my word against theirs. Their only arguement was I left it to long to get back to them and I asked for copies of their terms and conditions which stated a time factor several times and they never sent it to me.

 

hopefully my recorded delivery letters should go out tomorrow. Thank you for bearing with me on this I really appreciate it.

[Spooky3]

Hi Dayglo

 

I sent my recorded letter to the catalogue company stating I am disputing the debt. I also asked for them to show some consideration and compassion and erase/remove the debt. I kind of worded it formally to show it seems its my word against theirs that I didn't receive the goods in the package but as a customer of over 10 years why should i lie about something like this. I was talking to a the lady that delivers my library books and she said she had a debt removed where she pleaded with them to show some compassion so lets see if it works for me. I also sent a recorded letter to the DCA telling them I am disputing the debt with the catalogue company so no action should be taken while the dispute exist.

 

I will let you know of any replies I receive.

[Spooky3]

Hi All

 

Well today I received a letter from the DCA stating the following

 

"We refer to recent correspondence in this matter.

Please note that we have been instructed to take no further action against you and have therefore closed our file"

 

Can someone who is familiar with all this please confirm that this is the end of the whole sordid matter. I don't want to get exicted only to find out its a con. I sent a recorded letter to the catalogue company and pleaded with them to erase the debt I am hoping they have done this which is why i have now received a letter from the dca stating my file is closed.

[dayglo]

this is very good news, but not neccessarily the end of the matter.

 

The DCAs are in this to make money, they 'buy' debt very cheaply and then use a variety of methods to 'persuade' people to pay in a manner that the original creditors would prefer not to.

 

In the case of a 'disputed' account, most DCAs say "it's not worth the effort, send it back to the original creditor and move on to easier pickings"

 

The original creditor may still believe the debt is 'genuine' and take further action, likely to be by another DCA!

 

You may have to go through this one more time (by that I mean, there is a chance that the catelogue company might make one more attempt to recover some money from you by transferring the 'debt' to another DCA)

 

It's more likely however, that this is the end of the matter. You need to keep an eye out for 'default notices' appearing on your credit file as a last gasp act of spite against you.

 

If this happens, come back and ask for more help! (it's too long winded and complicated a process to adequatly describe here!)

 

anyway... I think congratulations are almost in order!

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I would agree with that.

If the Catalogue company sold on the debt tho then it would be the dca who have the final say.

They may have done a write down on it.

Its also possible that the Catalogue company on seeing possible litigation bought the debt back and they have wrote it off.

 

As has been suggested its a matter of keeping a check on credit files......and looking oit for any re-registered default notices.

 

A promising result if it holds tho.

[Spooky3]

thank you I will request a copy of my credit file in jan 07 I've been told to give it some time for updating if the debt has been written off.

 

I do hope this is the end of the matter as this DCA is the fourth I have been passed onto. I am suspicisious because I have not received a letter from the catalogue company in response to my recorded letter.

[Spooky3]

I received a letter from the catalogue company last week saturday (I've been ill so couldn't update this post sooner) stating they have cleared the debt and they apologised for the upset it has caused me. The letter stated as a gesture of goodwill they have enclosed a cheque for £26.92 this being the amount they forced me to pay for the goods I didn't recieve. But guess what the cheque was not enclosed. I didn't bother to contact them about this to be honest I am not surprised the cheque was not enclosed I mean this is the company that failed to enclose two items in my parcel hence the begining of the horrid experiecne. I am just grateful to now have in my possession letters from the catalogue company and the dca stating that the debt is cleared and my file is closed. My mother like me thought leave the cheque issue alone and just be glad to get rid of them but my sister thinks I should contact them about the cheque.

 

Thank you all for your wonderful advice if that cheque does turn up I will gladly donate it to this site. I have recommended this site to many people and when I am in a position to make a donation I will.

 

Once again thanks to you all and I now have this site saved in my favourites.

[dayglo]

excellent result. This was never about the realtively small amount fo money - more the threatenting behaviour and potential to mess up your credit reference file!

 

Well done.

[Rooster-UK]

The End.

Well done.