Uk citizen with debt in Germany, please help.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just to add, we started to pay in 2006 after receiving the papers.

I take it then the ex was also military?

Leave this with me over tomorow, I need to

look at a couple of things in the morning.

[keldavmet]

No, she wasn't Military, she was civilian, dependant and so came under military law. The incident occured in Germany. Ok, will leave it with you, thank you.

[gerson]

Hi Keldavmet,

 

You are in good hands with the Brig.

 

I have attached a file that may give you some insight into the German Debt recovery laws - I am by no means an expert.... but like you I too live in Germany and wanted to understand the consumer debt law incase I fell behind with any consumer debts I had/have. I think the file was origionally gleamed from sources in 'toytown' or one of the other 'expat' sites.

 

viel Glueck!

 

Ggerman debt law.doc

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Very useful document gerson thanks.

[keldavmet]

Thank you Gerson. I will need to print it off and have a good luck but it certainley sounds scary. I did read that in german law mst debts are recognised as statute barred after 3 years, the original CCA is from 2001 and we started to pay in 2006! But it really sounds like they dont ess around in getting their money, not sure how to feel now :-/ I do appreciate you digging that out for me though. Thanks very much

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There is hope in that SB clause, but I gather

the actuality is that there a many reasons

and causes that prevent the satute barring

so careful research will be needed on this.

I get some reading done.

[keldavmet]

if 3 years is the case for German statute barred, can they chase the payments when our first payment to them was well after to 3 years

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This where the problems start, the law here

is very long winded and it seems there are

many reasons, events etc., that can prevent

a debt becoming SB, which cannot happen

under English Law, it is far from clear cut.

That's why I said I need to do some reading.

Brig.

[keldavmet]

Thank you Brig!, my heart is thumping!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I have often wondered How Germany

be came so successful with the long

winded and complicated legislation I do

know that some matters do not become

SB for 30 years:jaw:

Resaerch required.

[gerson]

Hi Both,

 

Sorry if I opened a can of worms there.

 

I must confess that my knowledge of the laws here in Germany are not complete in any way shape or form.

 

Was only trying to help, I especially liked the bit about the 3 year SB..

 

Good luck with the research Brig and I hope that you can get the SB 'grounded'

 

I will try doing some research myself on this

 

Good hunting

 

G

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Both,

 

Sorry if I opened a can of worms there.

 

I must confess that my knowledge of the laws here in Germany are not complete in any way shape or form.

 

Was only trying to help, I especially liked the bit about the 3 year SB..

 

Good luck with the research Brig and I hope that you can get the SB 'grounded'

 

I will try doing some research myself on this

 

Good hunting

 

G

Thanks agan G it's all useful and very helpful.

[keldavmet]

Hey Gerson, not at all. To be honest Im like a cat in headlights with all this, I feel very intimidated by the Germans for some reason, think its their efficient attitude that precedes them and Im scared they wont be leniant in any way shape or form. The language barrier, and the lack of knowledge about their laws and whether my husband slots into UK law or German law is also in itself, frightening and intimidating.

 

I am really grateful that you took the time to help, I havent fully read the document yet but we plan to tomorrow, I think Brig is very kindly doing some reading for me as Im a bit blinded by all the legal jargon. So thanks again, no can of worms opened at all!

[gerson]

Hi,

 

I have found this:

 

 

According to German civil law claims are generally statute-barred after 3 years. To interrupt the running of the period of limitation it is necessary to initiate court proceedings before the 31.12. of every year at the latest. In case of limitation of action no further court proceedings are possible and excluded by law. To levy execution against the debtor's goods and property is not possible afterwards.

 

So IMHO they must commence proceedings before the 31st December of the third year after the 'cause of action' and each subsequent year thereafter. Can you check all of the paperwork you have and verify the dates.

 

I hope the BRIG can verify this as the above translation is not very accurate/concise

 

G

 

I am NOT of the 'legal' profession and these are my own understandings and findings

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,

 

I have found this:

 

 

According to German civil law claims are generally statute-barred after 3 years. To interrupt the running of the period of limitation it is necessary to initiate court proceedings before the 31.12. of every year at the latest. In case of limitation of action no further court proceedings are possible and excluded by law. To levy execution against the debtor's goods and property is not possible afterwards.

 

So IMHO they must commence proceedings before the 31st December of the third year after the 'cause of action' and each subsequent year thereafter. Can you check all of the paperwork you have and verify the dates.

 

I hope the BRIG can verify this as the above translation is not very accurate/concise

 

G

 

I am NOT of the 'legal' profession and these are my own understandings and findings

I had trip to a legal reference library on EU law and found this today as well, a colleague much

leraned in the intricases of foreign law and I came up with very much the same interpretation,

this I think would need now to be put to a German Lawyer Kel some one on hand near you.

 

Excellent work G thanks.

[gerson]

Thanks for 'tickling' my star

 

Glad to be of service sahr! (I think that is how it is said)

 

Hope it helps the OP

 

G

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks for 'tickling' my star

 

Glad to be of service sahr! (I think that is how it is said)

 

Hope it helps the OP

 

G

Great help G well done it's good to have you here:-)

[keldavmet]

According to German civil law claims are generally statute-barred after 3 years. To interrupt the running of the period of limitation it is necessary to initiate court proceedings before the 31.12. of every year at the latest. In case of limitation of action no further court proceedings are possible and excluded by law. To levy execution against the debtor's goods and property is not possible afterwards.

 

So IMHO they must commence proceedings before the 31st December of the third year after the 'cause of action' and each subsequent year thereafter. Can you check all of the paperwork you have and verify the dates.

 

I hope the BRIG can verify this as the above translation is not very accurate/concise

 

 

Thank you G, really grateful and to you Brig. Sorry, what does IMHO mean? Sorry confused by all the jargon. I will dig out paperwork tomorrow, have been away tonight. The only paperwork I have relates to the old debt. I dont even know when the last payment was made on this as they never sent any old statements. The smaller debt which we had a letter about asking for whole sum, we have been paying towards for past 6 yrs. But literally have not one single bit of paperwork relating to it, no CCA, statement whatsoever. We were paying 2 amounts to same company, but then got the letter from a 'collection agency' asking for whole amount. So, in essence we dont know if the other company have even taken any of this into consideration or taken the payments off the amount owed. I feel like Im wading through mud with this, dont understand my rights, or nothing. Sat up now at 12.30 am with a headache. Would one of you be able to explain that to me in laymans terms (G's findings) as Im a bit dim in understanding what it actually means. Thanks Brig for your little trip today.

[steveab1]

IMHO In my humble opinion.

[keldavmet]

Thanks Steve.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Morning Kel,

I am going to delve a bit deeper into Gs information

today,so will let you know what I find later.

 

Brig.

[keldavmet]

Hiya Brig, thank you, you are a star

[keldavmet]

Looked at paperwork and last statement was from 2005 that they sent us showing the debt for the larger sum was in amounting. No payments made by the looks of it, we have no paperwork to show when the last payment was made by his ex wife. Do we request this? We started to pay in Aug 2006, so if we started paying for instance after the 3 year statute barred time (if thats what the law is) have they got the money unlawfully.

 

The debt for the smaller sum, as I say, we have not one bit of paperwork for, no acknowledgement of the 20 GBP we have been paying towards it for the past 6 years

Just waiting now for another nasty letter asking for the whole amount. They said in the last one to make a payment plan to avoid further costs. Dont know what to do.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Kel, The matter of payments made in ignorance

of the SB law would under UK be considered a ''gift''

I'll need to go back to library to research the German

law.

As to the smaller debt do you have any address for the

creditor/DCA???

[keldavmet]

The smaller debt- the orginal creditor was BMW bank GmBH....the letters that came for the small debt last week, was from a 'collection agency' but looked very much like the ones that come from the Rectsanwalte who are dealing with the bigger one. My mum says that they might not even be solicitors, but I didnt realise solicitors could claim debts....I am still not sure whether they have bought the debt and we are paying them or whether they collect the money on behalf of BMW .

 

So if we were paying this money as a 'gift' would we have to keep paying? We have considered offering them a settlement figure but its about a quarter of what the total debt is, its all we can afford.