Uk citizen with debt in Germany, please help.

[keldavmet]

Just looked through some old paperwork and it would seem there was a court order for the larger debt, which they ceased to carry through as when Husband became aware, he started to pay. I assume this is not good as it shows they would be willing to take the matter to court. They said the judgement 'could not be delievered' but there will be no court action as long as he continues to pay.

[cerberusalert]

So in fact you have never actually laid eyes on the court order, you only know what they've told you?

[keldavmet]

Yes-and the fact that some bloke was round at his parents asking for him. The only other option we have just discussed is a settlement figure, but we couldnt afford anything near to what the outstanding debt is. Just want it rid of.

[keldavmet]

Sorry have not physically seen one, just them saying there was one and the man turning up

[keldavmet]

We did check our credit reports, hubbys was squeaky clean, in fact he got a slightly better score than me

[cerberusalert]

In that case I doubt very much whether they have obtained a court order, he would have received court papers one way or another + they wouldn't be wanting to negotiate a settlement figure... they wouldn't need to as they would have been awarded the full amount.

 

The guy who came to his parents must have been a tracing agent they employed in the UK.

[keldavmet]

So they wouldnt accept a settlement figure? They offered us one back in 2009, but it was still around the 15 k mark, couldnt afford it.

[cerberusalert]

They would probably accept a settlement, what I am saying is it is unlikely they have a court order. If they had they would have been unlikely to offer a settlement in 2009.

 

If it's passed to a UK DCA there is a far higher chance of them accepting a much lower settlement as long as they can prove the debt.

[keldavmet]

Ok that makes me feel a little better. Am I within my rights to send them a letter asking for statement details of all payments made and to offer a settlement figure even if it is a lot less than the actual amount owed? Just to answer your earlier query-the car was taken by a REME chap.

 

With the other letter, the smaller debt-I assume I can send them a standard letter asking for a CCA?...after we have said that we have no knowledge of the debt. Husband believes she fraudulently took on the loan as he was on tour and came back to a brand new shiny horse box What we are confused with is, is he governed by UK law? does he have the same rights? i.e statute barred etc

[cerberusalert]

So he didn't sign any credit agreement? if that is the case then it was fraud on his ex's part and he has been duped into making payments & probably intimidated into paying because of both the language barrier and the actions of the finance company.

 

You don't need to send a CCA request for the second amount, just a letter telling them to prove it.

[keldavmet]

For them to pass it to a UK DCA, we would have to stop paying? This is what frightens me, would much rather deal with a UK one, but scared that they will have a paddy and go for a court order instead.

 

Will be fighting the other one, the smaller one that is, no mention of it since August 2006, despite paying towards it since then!

[cerberusalert]

For them to pass it to a UK DCA, we would have to stop paying? This is what frightens me, would much rather deal with a UK one, but scared that they will have a paddy and go for a court order instead.

If he didn't sign any credit agreement he is not liable for the debt, he is the innocent party in a fraud.

 

The fact that they are claiming a second debt seems to underline the fact that they never obtained a court order in the first place. If they had it would have included all amounts due & they would be unable to add any thing.

 

If they try for a court order he would have an absolute defence in that he hadn't signed or entered into any credit agreement.

[cerberusalert]

Hopefully when the other mod reads the thread he'll be able to give your husband more specific advice, but by what I've read so far and the fact that his ex was prosecuted under Military Law the legal section of the AGC may need to be involved.

[keldavmet]

He says that he never signed anything for the second smaller debt-the bigger one yes he did sign. He cannot recall signing anything for a smaller finance loan. I have asked how he let her get away with it, but he says that being on tour, your spouse obviously has to have control of the finances, which I well know. He has said that we need to see the credit agreement, but says she could fake his signature very well....what a absolute mess.

[cerberusalert]

One thing which would prove irrefutably whether he signed the second agreement or not would be the date. If it was signed whilst he was on tour then it would be obvious he couldn't have done it.

[keldavmet]

Cerberusalert-My husband and I obviously are very grateful for all of your help. Thank you, Im sure Ive been a nuisance, but we are so fed up. The larger debt, yes he signed for, so she could have a car which she trashed drink driving. Failed to meet the payments and 4 years on in 2006 he got stumped for the whole lot, including the charges etc.When he phoned his ex, she just laughed at him and said it was his problem. She even tried to get him to pay her vets bill for a cat after they were divorced!

 

The smaller debt of 5 k, was mentioned in 2006, we paid, but no mention until last week from a german 'collection agency' for the whole amount. This is the one he cannot recall signing anything for.

 

Thank you for asking the other MOD to help. We have left this for so long now because nobody seems interested, this has been like a light at the end of a very long tunnel. Im sure much more needs to be done, but thanks again.

[keldavmet]

This is true, i.e dates. Have mentioned it and the fact that he has to absolutely sure that he did not sign a thing. The problem is that he has a very bad memory, but I have said if he was away from his parent unit, there would be record somewhere.

[cerberusalert]

I have said if he was away from his parent unit, there would be record somewhere.

There certainly will.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, Sorry to hear about this problem, Cerberus has asked

me to see what we can do to help.

Your husbands ex signed the contract documents,

or was this in joint names.

Do you have any of the documents relating to the car and

the incident that caused it to be written off?

The prosecution under military law was just for the DD offence,

or was there more to it?

Sorry for all the questions but I need to get the thread into a logica

order.

Was your husband prosecuted by civil or military authorities?

For reassurance there is no likelyhood of loosing your home in

the uk or any one taking your possesions in my opinion.

Also has any mention been made of court action by any of

these companies?

A couple of points have you spoken to any of the military

staff about this problem eg families liason?

If you can lay the whole sequence of events out concisely

it will be easier to advise.

In my opinion your husband has no liability if he did not

sign the agreement or his ex fraudulently obtained the credit.

The key here is as cerberus says the credit agreement.

I belive the same principle applies in Germany if there

is no agreement produced the matter cannot be enforced in

court.

The credit agreement you refer to in post 16 is it signed

by your husband.

[keldavmet]

Hello Brigadier-Thank you very much for your help-I will write everything down in a clear concise format, answering your questions so that things look clearer. Will be back as soon as possible.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hopefully when the other mod reads the thread he'll be able to give your husband more specific advice, but by what I've read so far and the fact that his ex was prosecuted under Military Law the legal section of the AGC may need to be involved.

I would have hoped Provost Staff were already involved.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Brigadier-Thank you very much for your help-I will write everything down in a clear concise format, answering your questions so that things look clearer. Will be back as soon as possible.

No problem, If there is any detail that you do not

want to put on the open forum please send me a private

message.

[keldavmet]

Hello Brigadier-We have gone through the questions you have asked. The large debt pertaining to the car is the one we have been paying 50 GBP to since August 2006 to Strack Rectsanwalte. They agreed to us paying this amount, after we saw the Credit Agreement for the car.

1 This contract was signed solely by my husband in 2001 with BMW Bank GmBh.

2. My husband has no documents relating to the car, or the incident. The incident occured in 2003

3. The prosecution was for drink driving. Accidental damage to the other cars was dealt with by a civilian company, my husband paid for this.

4. My husband was not prosecuted by military or civilian authorities, his ex-wife was court marshalled for Drink Driving, interviewed by RMP's etc.

5. The only mention of a court order was when the Rectsanwalte said to us that the court order? had been terminated as we had agreed to pay. As mentioned earlier, someone turned up at his parents house with papers but did not say what they were for. This happened once/twice, but never again.

6. We havent spoken to family liason about this, we tried army legal but they couldnt help us.

 

The 2nd debt for 5 k, we have been paying 20 GBP per month, writing the reference numbers for both accounts on the back of a 70 GBP cheque. We have had no CCA for this debt. On 13th December they sent a letter with a different company header, asking for the full amount or to ring them to arrange a payment plan. We havent rang. My husband believes this may have been for a horse box that appeared whilst he was in Oman in 2002. He does not remember signing anything for a smaller loan/credit.

 

We have asked for statements pertaining to the debts, we received one in 2008, the balance for the large debt has not decreased, they keep adding interest. Similarly, this balance shows 50 GBP being taking off, nothing to show where the 20 GBP is going. No statements since. All correspondance is in German. If the post is delayed through no fault of our own, they will write a letter asking where the money is. The most recent also asked for the money to be transferred from a bank account straight to theirs.

They sent a letter in 2009 offering a settlement figure of 16,000 or to pay 100 GBP per month, we declined saying we could afford neither, they didnt dispute, and we have carried on paying.

We have kept all letters sent and received. Although on occasions where we have asked for correspondance in English or for statements they do not reply.

 

The smaller debt letter, translates to 'collection agency'. But as we have no details as to what this debt is for we havent replied.

 

Do you believe that it would be worth transferring the deeds of our house into my name solely? We now have savings for us and our children and Im so frightened they will suffer. Many thanks, and again sorry for the overload of information.

[keldavmet]

I am also worried with the impending redundancies that we may struggle to pay the large debt if my husband is made redundant. Really worried, just wish we could pay it off.

[keldavmet]

Just to add, we started to pay in 2006 after receiving the papers.