Cap1 & CCA return

[Jeff2000]

Is this good or bad?

 

I sent of last week to Moorcroft in regards to a next account, They replied today and sent the cheque back .

 

The letter says

 

I write to confirm that out client (Next directory) has been unable to supply a signed CCA for you. We have therefore returned the payment you have made.

 

We accept under the section 127 3 of the consumer credit act 1974 this debt is therefore unenforceable via a court order. We must inform you however that the account still remains outstanding.

 

It is our understanding that the goods which have been charged to your account have been ordered by and delivered to you. We can confirm therefore that a defualt remains in relation to this account and would remind you that making payments to clear the balance may assist in relation to your credit history.

 

Please confirm that you accept that goods were ordered and received and let us have your settlement proposals

 

 

 

 

Hello dj,

 

 

Basically it's good!

 

They have admitted that the agreement cannot be enforced in the courts.

The debt, however still exists, so it is up to you to decide if you want to make a settlement proposal.

 

 

Jeff.

[MAGDA]

Hi, I received a claim this morning from Northampton court re: Asset Link capital v Magda, I have started a new thread on the Debt forum and would really appreciate some help if you could have a look

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136957-claim-issued-asset-link.html?highlight=magda

 

Thanks, Magda

[car2403]

Hello dj,

 

 

Basically it's good!

 

They have admitted that the agreement cannot be enforced in the courts.

The debt, however still exists, so it is up to you to decide if you want to make a settlement proposal.

 

 

Jeff.

 

It's time to issue a s.10/s.12 DPA Notice, IMHO;

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Also see here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/125119-ccas-post-april-2007-a-3.html#post1359065 (post #57)

[pugsley]

I don't believe anyone has claimed their capital back up to date. You may wish to view tomterm's view on pursuing such a claim.

 

Have you read up on sec 85?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/112860-will-you-get-payments.html

 

 

__________

 

see first five pages

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/10900-loan-company-cannot-supply.html

 

money was claimed back in the early days, although the advice now seems to have changed

[MAGDA]

Hi, really could do with some help here re: my thread (link above). As expected rec'd another claim from Asset link today, this time my husband's a/c. A statement we rec'd from Asset Link (together with the agreement) back in Jan stated the current balance as £450, however, the claim is for around £2,200! Big difference. sent letter today for both a/cs re: request for information under the civil procedure rules. the agreements are application forms, but have interest rate, minimum payments and cancellation details -standard GE Cap forms, but they do refer to "terms shown below and overleaf" and we don't have the overleaf, don’t know if this makes any difference. Most importantly, I really need to acknowledge the claims online, but not sure which defence I should be going for, i.e, counter claim or to simply dispute a part of the claim, as obviously I do owe something. Thanks, Magda

[Having_A_Knightmare]

HELP!!!!

 

I have just got off the phone form Trading Standars(She is working from Home) and she says that the rules changed in 2006 and section 127(3) of the CCA is at a judges discresion.

 

Is this right to an agrement taken out in 2002

 

HAK

[car2403]

HELP!!!!

 

I have just got off the phone form Trading Standars(She is working from Home) and she says that the rules changed in 2006 and section 127(3) of the CCA is at a judges discresion.

 

Is this right to an agrement taken out in 2002

 

HAK

 

Absolutely not;

 

The agreement was made before s.15 of theConsumer Credit Act 2006 came into force - therefore, by way of s.11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006, those sections otherwise repealed by s.15 Consumer Credit Act 2006 remain in force

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Cheers Car

 

This is what I am up against.

 

Have you got the piece of law I could email here now.

 

HAK

[car2403]

Cheers Car

 

This is what I am up against.

 

Have you got the piece of law I could email here now.

 

HAK

 

It's the CCA 2006 and the commencement orders under it - I don't have them, but if you PM Paul, I'm sure he'll be obliging...

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Car

 

Is it the section 11 on this page

 

Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14)

 

as it does not make sence

 

HAK

[car2403]

Hi Car

 

Is it the section 11 on this page

 

Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14)

 

as it does not make sence

 

HAK

 

Read the transitional provision and savings, under schedule 3 and relating to s.11 and all will become clear;

 

Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14)

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Cheers Mate

[dj9928]

I have received word today from my second creditor, Littlewoods catalogue. The letter says

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31xxxx, unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of your exectuted agreement, but for your information we have enclosed a current copy of the agreement which applies to this type of account. This current version includes all contractual variations which have taken place.

 

The have enclosed a current agreement for me to sign and return. What way do I proceed with this? And can they do anything?

[iconoclash]

Hiya - not up to date with your stuff but: don't sign anything! I'm guessing that you've asked for the contract that they say you are bound by, now have not found it, so are hoping you will sign up now - if you haven't already got a legal contract then they may not be able to enforce any debts against it - hope this helps:)

[Cornucopia]

I have received word today from my second creditor, Littlewoods catalogue. The letter says

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31xxxx, unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of your exectuted agreement, but for your information we have enclosed a current copy of the agreement which applies to this type of account. This current version includes all contractual variations which have taken place.

 

The have enclosed a current agreement for me to sign and return. What way do I proceed with this? And can they do anything?

 

I would suggest that they don't have a leg to stand on. You absolutely MUST NOT sign and return the new agreement they have sent you. I would write to them and point out very politely that without a true copy of your executed agreement, you expect them to darken your door no more.

 

Regards,

 

Corn x:(

[patrickq1]

or sign it with the signature "doi looklike nidiot"

ha ha how stupid do they think you are ,just tear it up dont even respond to it bin it

patrickq1

[MAGDA]

I had exactly the same thing from Littlewoods recently and they have now sent a statement showing a zero balance, because they realised the debt was unenforceable. Magda

[car2403]

I have received word today from my second creditor, Littlewoods catalogue. The letter says

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31xxxx, unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of your exectuted agreement, but for your information we have enclosed a current copy of the agreement which applies to this type of account. This current version includes all contractual variations which have taken place.

 

The have enclosed a current agreement for me to sign and return. What way do I proceed with this? And can they do anything?

 

Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[andrewman]

send the company a second letter for CCA which should be found in letter templates. send them this letter. in the meantime i would destroy the letter they sent you,otherwise they have won.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− account number

Your Ref: DCA ref:No.

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities, therefore if I do not receive evidence that I owe your company any monies by , I will have no hesitation in passing your details to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I sent cabot this letter and they say they are sending me the requested documents. second time lucky ?. what ever you decide goodluck.8-)

[Jeff2000]

send the company a second letter for CCA which should be found in letter templates. send them this letter. in the meantime i would destroy the letter they sent you,otherwise they have won.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− account number

Your Ref: DCA ref:No.

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities, therefore if I do not receive evidence that I owe your company any monies by , I will have no hesitation in passing your details to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I sent cabot this letter and they say they are sending me the requested documents. second time lucky ?. what ever you decide goodluck.8-)

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

If the first letter sent was a request for a true copy of the agreement under s77-s79 of the CCA, then there is no need to send a further request. This first request still stands, and if they haven't provided a true copy of the agreement after 12 working days then they have defaulted. After a further calender month has passed without complying with the request, then they have committed an offence, and you may, if you wish, report them to Trading Standards and the OFT etc.

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[hellhasnofury]

I have received word today from my second creditor, Littlewoods catalogue. The letter says

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31xxxx, unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of your exectuted agreement, but for your information we have enclosed a current copy of the agreement which applies to this type of account. This current version includes all contractual variations which have taken place.

 

The have enclosed a current agreement for me to sign and return. What way do I proceed with this? And can they do anything?

 

Jesus just choked and spluttered wine all over the keyboard when I read the update to the thread. Oh my God how desperate are they:lol:

Glad to see you have been updated on this little parfait:lol:

 

This is about the best I have seen, in the desparado deparment:lol:

[Jeff2000]

Jesus just choked and spluttered wine all over the keyboard when I read the update to the thread. Oh my God how desperate are they:lol:

Glad to see you have been updated on this little parfait:lol:

 

This is about the best I have seen, in the desparado deparment:lol:

 

 

Hi,

 

They will try absolutely anything in the hope that the poor consumer is completely unaware of their rights.

 

But we know differently!

 

 

Jeff.

[zosaphine]

Hi all, started reading this thread after googling unenforceable credit agreements, having seen this mentioned in another post. Got to page 14 & started to get a little overwhelmed with all the information and legalities..and then noticed i has another 500+ pages to read through :o ......so hope you don't mind me asking what was the outcome for Tamadus, were they successful in their claim.. can anyone let me know what post no. to look out for?

 

Also, where does one stand with a credit account opened over the internet for a company such as Simplybe... as no agreement was ever given to me to sign, just all completed over the internet?

 

sorry for hijacking and thanks guys - this site rocks! 8)

[patrickq1]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/14499-tamadus-barclaycard.html?highlight=Tamadus

[car2403]

Also, where does one stand with a credit account opened over the internet for a company such as Simplybe... as no agreement was ever given to me to sign, just all completed over the internet?

 

When was the agreement taken out?