h197 -v- Cabot (ex Egg ) Now in litigation help please.

[mooshy]

Hi

Ive pm you

[h197]

???

I can see nothing!!!

???

[AndyOrch]

H can u assist Mooshy with the fax number hes also doing an application today.Same scenario.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[h197]

OK mooshy, I have replied (incl fax no), so good luck!

 

PS Jut in case anyone else is also looking for details on how to submit documents (N244 in my case) to MCOL, the current (ie, I cannot guarantee they will not change over time...) ways to do so are:

 

1. by email at mcol@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk,

2. by fax at 08454 085305, or

3. obviously by logging on and following through what options may be available in your case!

 

Good luck all

H.

Edited September 13, 2011 by h197
add information

[h197]

I am writing to give an update and to ask for some more advice please...

 

First of all, for those that have read the rest of my posts, I am now advised that I can not have solicitor's assistance, as my so called £50k "family legal assistance" cover only covers defence of the following 3 (!) instances:

 

1. road traffic related alleged offences

2. contract claims brought by someone to whom the insured has sold his private goods (also excluding selling a private vehicle!) and

3. accountancy fees if he is subjected to an Inland Revenue Enquiry into his PAYE tax position

 

and that this is all that is covered under what was sold to me as a £50k "family legal assistance"! Well, I am not happy to say the least, but this I will have to fight separate me finks... (possibly go through Trading Standards, or any other advice please?)

 

With regards to my CPR31 request, the time has been and gone and I have received no data and no reply whatsoever. What do I do next please?

 

With the CCA request, I have received the usual delaying letters saying that they are asking for papers from the OC, though again the timeframe has now been and gone and I have received no data. What do I do next please?

 

Now the SAR is a different case, as I sent off to the OC and in reply I have now received a large pack of paper dating from account inception in 2001, which contains the following:

 

1. a welcome type letter

2. explanatory notes on my SAR (what it means, what in includes and what it does not kind of thing)

3. a scanned copy of my SAR request and cheque attached

4. scanned copies of letters I sent them when I first got into money troubles, asking for reduced payments (no replies where originally received, or

are attached here)

5. lots of computer screenshots as follows:

 

a) a screenshot of my application review (no CCA or relevant details, t&c, etc, just a screenshot)

b) screenshots showing my personal details like address, residential status, etc, though not all 100% accurate (for example showing 0 dependants, though I do have some!). Also interesting here that the flag 'Solicitable by Others' is ticked as No, so they should not be passing any of my details to other parties. Does this help anywhere perhaps?

c) next are even more screenshots, showing what records they hold under Contact History. Most of it is not important, though the following points may be:

 

- mention of default sum notice on XX XX 2009. A copy of it is not enclosed

- followed by 'conversation outcome: No Resolution Required' following telephone contact 5 days later

- followed by many blank entries under 'Collections'

- then nothing for quite some time, until some last entries are made to deal with my SAR request.

 

d) next, there are a few pages detailing transactions against the account, where most of it is again irrelevant, with the following being of interest:

 

- Int rate XX XX 07 from xx.x to xx.x (rate change, with no copy of letter attached here) - Int rate XX XX 09 from xx.x to xx.x (rate change, with no copy of letter attached here)

- XX XX 09 NS - Offer Rcvd & Accepted from XXX for $xx.00 - Ref Myname (refers to accepting my offere for reduced payments, though I NEVER received such a reply as would have paid it at the time! Again no copy of such letter is attached here)

- XX XX 09 A/C placed with Moorcroft 1st Placement….(I never received any letters, or any info from Moorcroft about this!)

- XX XX 10 Sold to Cabot (no copy of any such communication to myself is referred to here and again with no copy of letter attached here)

- XX XX 10 Moorcroft closed account (now it is interesting that I did not get more claims issues from Moorcroft and that they did not pursue. Did they perhaps rview and reject as there was no CCA, etc?)

- this also includes a screenshot of the account status showing the last balance, etc…

 

6. Finally, I have copies of ALL statements (front and back), where I will look through to see what may be reclaimed as over fees, etc

 

As you will have noticed, copies of many letters sent out / allegedly sent out are not included, as well as NO CCA whatsoever! Am I to assume that it may be archived and has not been retrieved yet, or that it simply does not exist, as this was an online application back in 2001?

 

Moreover, I have submitted my N244 application and I am waiting for the court to action... I am thinking that I should now send them a CPR18 asking outright what they think they are doing kind of thing...maybe?

 

Comments and advice on what I must do next will be MUCH appreciated as always!

 

Kind regards

[h197]

PS Reading through the statements, the very first one (the latest in chronological order) shows that the OC refunded me some interest and as such the closing balance of the account is a few hundred pounds less than what the DCA is calling for! Result! They are calling for the wrong amount too, lmao!

Edited September 21, 2011 by h197

[h197]

Can someone please advise what my best next course of action would be? Do I send a letter to state that the account is in dispute (is there a template for this too please?) to the DCA as they have not supplied anything under both the CCA and CPR31 requests? Or should I wait for the court to action on the N244? I am tempted to challenge them further through cuptr and/or CPR18, asking why they have even taken this on without a CCA, etc, etc. though I am unsure if this is of benefit, corrently timed, or not?

 

Help please?

[AndyOrch]

Wait for the response to the application. Nothing more.

 

Andy

[h197]

Darn, it appears that I have come up against a (Deputy) District Judge that likes the DCA's...? I have now received the following:

 

A General Directions Order from the Court, where it is stated that:

 

"1) Unless the Claimant do by the 5th October 2011 disclose to the Defendant a certified true copy of the Notice of Assignment referred to in the Particulars of Claim the claim shall be struck out.

 

Note: The order has been made without a hearing under the Courts case management powers contained in the Civil Procedure rules Part 3. You may within 7 days of the service of this oredr, apply to the Court to set aside or to vary the order under Part 23 Rule 10. You must file with the Court, and serve on the other parties, an application that sets out your reasons for objection. A fee is payable upon the filing of the application. When your objection is received the matter will be listed for hearing unless you ask the Court to vary the order without a hearing."

 

This was considered at Court on the 20th, issued on the 21t and I received it today (24th).

 

Why has the judge chosen to ignore the points I have listed in my N244 request (please see above) and only ask for the NoA which is 'in my opinion' a waste of time and money? Moreover, what do the notes added mean and why has my request for additional time to file a defence following disclosure has not been replied to, or listed anywhere...?

 

As a result (and I bet they are laughing all the way by the easy way out offered by the Judge), I have also received an envelope from the Claimant enclosing the following:

 

1. A standard Cabot welcome letter with my details, etc, also stamped as 'REPRESENTATION OF A LETTER TO CUSTOMER CREATED ON xx/xx/10", with additional notes and a Direct Debit form, etc

2. A letter with the logo of the CC provider, supposedly issued by them and signed by them, stating the debt has been sold to Cabot, blah, blah (this one I do not remember seeing before and will be contacting the CC provider to confirm if issued by them, though at this stage may be "irrelevant" information?)

3. A printout list of phone calls made on the account, with some info (I believe names) blanked out

 

I believe they are happy with the N244 issued to them and they are preparing to go for the 'moral' argument of "I have accepted it by paying against it, so now get get stuffed with a CCJ too!"

 

Advice and comments welcomed as always (panicking a bit here!)...

 

HELP PLEASE...?

[AndyOrch]

As the NoA is the only document referred to in the Claimants P.o.C then the DJ is at liberty only to order disclosure of this one document.

thats why they now word their PoCs very carefully, to avoid CPR.An application is not a magic wand to dispense with a claim only part of the litigation process

to aid you in clarification of any claim.

Is the NoA valid thats been sent I assume its a recon,is there any reference in the SAR to assignment.You have penalty charges that need to be quantified also

that may be used in your defence.

The secret of a good defence is to fish out and build on any errors not just rely on none disclosure of various docs.

 

Andy

[gezwee]

Hi h

 

Andy is trawling through your previous thread at the mo by the look of things.

 

From my perspective I think the DDJ has followed protocol to the letter and ordered disclosure of the NoA only as this was the only document referred to within their PoC. How that would offer them a cause of action is an unknown as the assigned value would still require to be proven pre assignment.

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

H I have requested we merge the threads back together for ease of reference.

 

Andy

[gezwee]

Hi again h

 

As a pointer...... I've had a squint at their PoC on your other thread, not well pleaded and arguably falls well short of CPR part 16 requirements. Really not sure how you can 'backtrack' as such from previous CPR requests now.

 

Hoping Andy may have some thoughts on this, not sure if its still possible to go in with a strike out app at this stage?

 

Gez

[MARTIN3030]

2 threads merged and retitled

[h197]

Hello all and thanks for reading through and offering advice.

Exactly because their POC was...poor in detail to say the last, I worded the information I called for in my CPR request as follows and did actually send a copy of it to with the N244:

1 - the Deed of Assignment: As you are referring in your Particulars of Claim that, quote “The Claimant is the Assignee of a Debt(s)from Egg Banking Plc”, you have implied the existence of a Deed of Assignment between Egg Banking Plc and the Claimant (Cabot Financial (UK) Limited), which enforces the assignment of the original Debt and is deemed crucial to this case. Under CPR PD 31 - Disclosure and Inspection of Documents it is thus requested that a verified and legible copy is hereby supplied.

2 - the Credit Card Agreement: You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to, or served with the particulars of claim (please note that this has not taken place so far) and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Additionally, that any general conditions incorporated in said contract should also be attached. Hence a verified and legible copy of the Credit Card Agreement as signed by the Defendant is hereby requested to be supplied.

3 - the Notice of Assignment: As in your Particulars of Claim you are stating that, quote “Notice of Assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing” a copy of said Notice of Assignment is requested, to ascertain whether or not it pertains to a ‘Legal Assignment’ or an ‘Equitable Assignment’ between Egg Banking Plc and Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

4 - the Default Notice: A copy of the Default Notice is finally requested, to include a Full Statement of transactions of above mentioned account and as relevant.

So, in the CPR request I am stating clearly how the requested documents have been referenced and why I am asking for copies to review, so I assuming that the judge perhaps simply issued an Order through a quick review of the POC and the N244, without reading through the attached supporting evidence?

Is there anything I can do to revise the Order to include the additional terms, or is this now a no way back kind of thing?

Also, I will be calling the court first thing on Monday to see where I now stand, as I am assuming that my next step should be one of getting a defence pulled together? Od do I still have the time to send off a request trough CPR18 / CPUTR or both?

Goes perhaps without saying that I still have not received any details on my CCA requests, or the CPR31 request (though they will probably claim that they have replied with enough to satisfy the CPR portion called for my the Judge's Order?)

More interistingly perhaps, they also have delivered what I am assuming is a fake / made up NoA (which I have never seen before) suppossedly sent from Egg to me with > as a date (?), where they are saying that my debt is now sold and to Cabot and any further communications must be addressed to Cabot Financial Group, blah, blah... It is interesting as according to records I received from Egg the account was sold in xx/Jan/10, when their letter says it was done in xx/Dec/09...? I will be contacting Egg though to get an answer, one way or another...!

 

Am I right assuming that submitting a defence is the next step to go for and if so, is anyone able to help please?

 

HELP...PLEASE…?

[h197]

By the way, is there a way for me to force this INTO court, or is this not advisable? I am thinking so, as I would like to invite Egg to attend as witnesses, to ask them if there is a CCA available, if they did send me the NoA sent to me (and the court I assume) by Cabot and how they stand at selling such an acount without a CCA, what the type of assignment to Cabot was, etc, etc...

 

Is this a possible and advisable course of action?

 

Thanks in anticipation...

[h197]

As the NoA is the only document referred to in the Claimants P.o.C then the DJ is at liberty only to order disclosure of this one document.

thats why they now word their PoCs very carefully, to avoid CPR.An application is not a magic wand to dispense with a claim only part of the litigation process

to aid you in clarification of any claim.

Is the NoA valid thats been sent I assume its a recon,is there any reference in the SAR to assignment.You have penalty charges that need to be quantified also

that may be used in your defence.

The secret of a good defence is to fish out and build on any errors not just rely on none disclosure of various docs.

 

Andy

 

Andy, as you will see in the portion copied from my CPR request, I am justifying how the additional documentation I called for is refernced, but I can see your point as to why the judge may have chosen to go with a simple NoA request

 

As for the NoA, I am assuming it refers to the so called 'copy' of the letter Egg suppossedly sent me and that I have replied to already (ref date inconcistencies).

 

I am not quite sure what you mean with "is there any reference in the SAR to assignment", the only thing that I can see is that it was Sold to Cabot in xx/Jan/10? Nothing else that I can really work out from the codes available...?

 

As for errors on their behalf, I think I have plenty, I am just unsure how to best present them and what would / would not be acceptable by the court?

 

I am now starting to pull my defence together, as I am assuming that is what I need to do next and your continued support is much appreciated!

 

Many thanks

Edited September 24, 2011 by h197

[AndyOrch]

What date is you defence due H? Can you scan in what they have disclosed by way of NoA.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[h197]

Hi Andy

 

I am assuming you have missed my PM, though I am really stressed out now as I have contacted the court and they advised that if they Claimant answered the court order (which they have as already listed above), then my defense is overdue and I could receive a summary default..?

 

Many thanks

H.

[h197]

I will try and scan the NoA asap, though at this stage is there a way for me to submit in private please..? I am slo trying to get through to Egg, so will keep you informed!

[AndyOrch]

If the latest Direction ordered disclosure by the 5th Oct I would assume the defence date must be extended also otherwise the application

would seem pointless.Did you request extension also within your application?

 

Andy

[h197]

Hi Andy

 

Sorry, just to make things worse, I am also having IT problems too now!

 

In reply to your question, i was sent the letter from the Court as described above and at the same time received the reply by the Claimant. I am assuming that they were laughing when it came through to them, so were all prepared...

 

As for requesting an extension, YES I did so, but I have now called MCOL and they advised that as no extension was mentioned in the order by the Judge, it means that my defense is now overdue and could potentially get a CCJ by default...could this really be correct? I meand would the court not allow for time to reply?

 

Many thanks

 

H.

[AndyOrch]

Well the DJ is not aware of the defence date as he wants to strike it out if no compliance by the 5/10 normally they state and the Defendant to submit an amended defence by xxxxxx.So I am at a loss as what to advise.

 

Andy

[h197]

Do I simply need to pull my defense together and submit it through MCOL, or am I still within rights to declare it in contest with the Claimants? Can I / should I be looking to do both? Is there any way that I can go back to the court to ask clarification about their PoC as it falls foul of CRP16 (I think?) and thus then re-instate (somehow if at all possible) the original N244?

 

Am I getting over the top here?

 

H.

[AndyOrch]

So back to my question of post 93 what is the official defence date? forget the Application, been and gone you can request again anything missing at AQ.

I'm not sure what you mean by " am I still within rights to declare it in contest with the Claimants?"

Why have they fallen foul if CPR 16 ?

 

Andy