Hello I am due to submit my 'pre-trial check list' and I am wondering if anyone can advise on what I need to watch out for in filling it? Thanks in advance

Hello DB Thank you for the reply and how would I go about establishing "whether this particular agreement related to a sale of a specific batch of accounts that included yours, or is simply an agreement of a future intention to assign accounts"? Do I need another N244 for that, or do I use CPR quetioning? PS I do not think Cabot tried the 'we are not the creditor" in my case, but will look back in case my memory is failing! Thanks

Hello all Having read what other people have advised and/or gone through while in a similar situation with Cabot, I think I must be doing something right as to my understanding I can prove they have no CCA, no properly served NoA, no DN, I believe they are calling the wrong amount and making a reduced offer at this stage usually also denotes that they believe there is a strong chance they will loose in Court. I am unsure if sending out a Part 36 offer specifically tied to a Consent Order is the correct procedure or just a scare tactic and I am still unsure as to how to reply to it, so any advice on this point would be much appreciated... But they are now trying to respond to the points I raised in my WS so they have at last send me something that is in their words described as a 'redacted copy of the Account Sale Agreement made between the Claimant and Egg Banking plc', which I believe is their attempt to add more validity to their Claim. I have read through it and I am unsure as to whether to accept it as such, or not, as nowhere within is my name, or old account number stated. For all I know it could apply to my old Egg account, as much as it may be completely unrelated and just a sale agreement linked to other people’s accounts. Some of it is reasonably legible and some is not, so I have scanned and adjusted it as best as possible... Please read through and advise if you can, as I now have only one day left out of the 21 allowed for my reply to their CPR36.10 offer (as they did state 'in accordance with CPR 36.10, if the offer is accepted within 21 days', as can be seen in the attachment to post #338 above). It has been suggested that a CPR 36 offer has to be valid for AT LEAST 21 days and if that is the case, what should my reply be please? All I can see is that rules call that such an offer must ‘specify a period of not less than 21 days within which the defendant will be liable for the claimant's costs if the offer is accepted (the "relevant period")’. So am I not liable if they fail, as I expect them to do..? Moreover, and especially as my personal details are nowhere mentioned, looking at the detail included the description of the accounts sold is one of: 1. page 4 - an account that is not legally uncollectable and as they have no CCA my account is legally uncollectible as per High Court and House of Lords rulings 2. page 8 - save for Court fees, they will not charge any default fees or other charges, which they are now claiming..? 3. page 11 - data in many pages has been crossed out, but should they be crossing things like their confidentiality agreed responsibilities, especially as they are passing my data all over the place? They started saying that Cabot UK and Cabot Europe are the same group and now Apex has joined them? Following me questioning this, the Apex employee who is the new witness has stated signing as a Litigation Associate for Cabot Credit Management Group…I wonder if this is a ‘legally recognised entity’, or not? 4. page 12 - the buyer may not dispose, sell, blah, blah, without the consent of the seller…is this correct in an ‘Absolute Assignment’? 5. page 15 - see point 10 here and as per point 1 above, my account is legally uncollectable (ie, unenforceable) 6. page 16 - per point 3, there was no current arrangement in place, it was dormant and not managed by anyone and it was actually originally placed with another DCA who very quickly withdrew to make way for Cabot. 7. page 17 - why have they hidden the effective date…? 8. page 19 - at the bottom they are supposed to be looking at the charge off value when the account was not charged off until months later…also hence why they are calling for the wrong amount! 9. page 23 - the DPA agreement, where they agree to comply with data / subject access requests (haaa ha, them being forthcoming with data, that will be the day…) For all of the above reasons and the lack of any personal details, I am unsure that my account was part of this transaction, or perhaps it was incorrectly included if it was…? I am wondering if they even messed up and just ‘assigned’ it along with all other Egg accounts bought at the time, though this was possibly part of another ‘cheaper’ batch of accounts, where they where taking a ‘punt’ at collected against them (if this theory could be true and other accounts were also unenforceable?) Finally though can someone with more specific knowledge ease advise if what they have redacted is acceptable, as I am sure they have been somewhat overeager…? I believe that there is precedence whereby information should be readily available with the view that it should not be unnecessarily withheld? In short, I do not wish to accept their offer, or sign the attached Consent Order. Do I simply ignore it, or do I have to reply in a specific manner? But if I get what has been advised so far, if I do not accept the offer and loose, then I have to pay much higher costs…, or is it down to ‘final award’ by the trial judge? Many thanks SaleAgreement.pdf

Hi and sorry I had a few problems to sort out (including the scanner), hence why it has taken me a while to post. I am attaching a copy of what I received, including the Consent Order to sign. As you will see I am asked to sign a Consent Form to say that I either pay them some money now, otherwise win or loose I pay them some money in fees they will determine later. It does not 'feel' right to me but please do read and advise if what I have been sent is something a) legally correct, b) that I must reply to and c) do I need to complete and sign the attached consent form to say if I agree or disagree? Many thanks PS Andy if you get to read this, I do like your new picture... Part36Offer.pdf

will do so as soon as I get home... Cheers

...so if I am getting this right and a Part 36 offer has no time limit, I should not have to reply now, or at least not within 21 days..? Can someone also advise what / how to best reply to their offer? Eg, Andy says I can reply with my own offer and if so, would I have to do so under Part 36? Thanks

21 days from sending it, or from receipt? In anyway, I was away for a week so only a week and a bit left! BUT, the important question is do I have to / must reply with an agree / disagree? I mean if I agree I pay them and if I disagree I pay them again? I thought that was for the Court to decide? Moreover, I think my mind is set on fighting it to the end anyway, so what should my next step be please? Thanks

...hmmm, so what do I do now? Do I HAVE to reply to their letter / offer, or not? Can / should I reply with my offer? And surely they should notbe making a Part 36 offer so late in the process, as then if I accept it and whether I win, or loose I will have to pay loads (as fees will have now mounted up)? Any advice please?

Hello all Could someone please advise on the following letter I received off the Claimant new sols? In short, they are saying that it is a WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS notice for a PART 36 OFFER TO SETTLE. According to it I would be liable to their costs up to the date of notice according to CPR36.10, if the offer is accepted within 21 days..? Then if I accept to pay their offer for a reduced settlement I have to pay within 14 days, or else if I decline and I loose I will have to pay all their fees and some with an extra 10% interest...? I could probably scan the docs in but I am assuming this is standard practice as it refers to CPR and more specifically to CPR36.14, which they are saying they would be relying upon? Moreover there is a draft Consent Order attached for me to sign, where as far as I can see if I sign it I loose either way as I am asked to sign that I either a) Pay them a reduced settlement (around 50%) within 14 days, or b) Pay the Claimants costs if I disagree to paying them (and I am assuming whether I win or loose?)...? In short, it does not sound right to me, but do I have to reply to their request and do I have to sign such a request / Consent Order? Many thanks

Hello Citizen and thanks for the notes. Are you by any chance available to review what I have put together so far? Thanks

Just a quick clarification question to anyone that maybe able to answer please... How much detail are we supposed to put in the Witness Statement? DO we put all and everything we have about the case, just the basics, or somewhere in between (if this makes any sense)? PS Also, are there any Admins about that could preview and vet my WS before I exchange later today? Cheers

OK will do, thanks

OK Andy, do you mean the use of a Morgan employee or the Cabot EU issue? If the latter, is it something to raise in my Witness Statement...?

Hi Andy and thanks. One more question though please, as I get the impression that they will be using the original witness who was presented as a Litigation Associate in the employ of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, hence to my understanding a Morgan employ (as Morgan is their in-house litigation). Is that possible as Morgan has now pulled out? Moreover, They keep going back and forth between Cabot UK and Cabot Europe. I understand that Cabot UK may have bought a debt and thus some rights to processing my data. Cabot Europe though I have never authorised to do so and they have bought no such rights. Are they allowed to be dealing with my data? It feels like I take someone to Court and because I have done so, my dad can also get involved (ie the parent company). Although linked, I thought in the eyes of the law Cabot UK and Cabot Europe are separate entities and thus there is no automatic right for them (Cabote Europe) to be processing my data..? Just a thought?

Hello all, Just a quick question as I have received a request to delay the submission of Witness Statements, as their witness is on hols... The delay called for is for one week and I am assuming that is perfectly acceptable? Many thanks

Does anyone know the suggested format and content of a Witness Statement? I need to pull one together over the weekend to post out by Monday! Thanks

So I state this in my Witness Statement? And the fact that they have a set of terms not relevant to those that were valid back when I started the account, ie the wrong terms, that they also state that Egg send to them as a True copy of the agreement (I find this quite inventive and I am thinking of writing to Egg to with a copy of the letter thet supposedly sent, just to confirm?)..!

I have also sent them what they called for and they will now see that the final amount closing the account is not the one they are starting with and they claim that I was sent the DN after my very first missed payment, when what I was sent was a simple notice to say that I would be charged a fee for the account being in default (ie, missed a payment). Am I correct to say that they cannot present simple terms as an agreement and that would be 'abuse' of the court procedures?

PS They have sent me copies of what I asked and the so called Agreement listed is just a copy of terms (incorrect ones at that!), no signature, or anything...

Hi Andy Is there a specific form to use..? Thanks

Delilah One more question please: While I am aware of the LoP 1925, why do you say : "the Notice of Assignment is in contravention of the EU Consumer Credit Directive" please and if so, can you please point me to any relevant info? Thanks H.

Hi and thanks for the reply delilah. The problem is that I am unsure as to how to force them to disclose the Deed of Assignment to clear up if it was a Simple or Absolute assignment and they have already replied to previous questions as: 1. Simple but under s.136 (kind of impossible!) and then 2. it is Absolute, but never showing any paperwork... As for NoA, again I think it is down to the judge and they usually are happy to see it was sent, not really paying attention to the requirement for proof of postage, etc...at least that is what I have been finding reading through other posts, but I am hoping someone like Andy, or other more experienced site users may come along and comment..? Thanks for the comments though, they are all points I am considering for my final defence, or to argue in the trial. What I would really like to see is the Deed of Assignment, as I think it would solve many problems! H.

Hi CitizenB and thanks for the advice. In short, I am unsure if sending another CPR18 will do anything, as I have asked them before and all they come back with is "it was as per the sample supplied" (ie, as per the blank template they submitted) and it is down to me proving that all I received at the time was a letter from the bank advising that I will be charged for being in default (ie, missing my first payment). I think I can fight it reasonably, as 1. copy of said letter advising impending charge of £xx is already in the pack I have from both the bank and Morgan, issued a day after the action was marked on file, while NO DN like the one they say I received is included in the SAR docs and 2. no bank / cc co issued a full blown DN after the very first payment missed and Egg did not either (would it even be legal as they are supposed to help customers in trouble?). Moreover, I am still trying to get them to prove that they have bought the account under Absolute Assignment as they now claim, as my gut is telling me they have not, but they have not listed such papers in the List and so all I have is their word (not that it carries any weight with me anymore...!). Any way I can force them to prove it all please, understanding that they will claim privilidged information etc? And while on this subject, should I be categoric in refusing them to include ANY of the information they have listed as privilidged and they hence do not wish me to view...? How do I do this, as I do not want any surprises with manufactured docs appearing on the day as previously privilidged docs? Finally, I am still tempted to write to them when I send them copies of what they have asked for from my list. Maybe I should include another CPR18 as per citizen's advice, as they seem to reply to them, but in all I want to re-iterate my thoughts as they have NO signed agreement, NO DN (or proof of postage of) and their welcome letter as NoA (plus a generic copy of what they claim was sent to me by Egg as a NoA)...? Any help and comments always appreciated! Many thanks

Hello Delilah Yes I need to get onto that, as I would not be surprised if the same happened in my case! Moreover, I have now found what Egg sent me on the date that Cabot / Morgan claims the DN was sent and it is NOT what they say was sent. The date they refer to was after my very 1st missed payment and what was sent to me was a standard notice saying they will charge me so much for being in Default, NOT the blanket default notice that Morgan claims was sent to me from Egg. So no DN, no Agreement, no signature, should be interesting! Cheers

Just another quick question to anyone that may be able to answer it please: After the entry 'Sold to Cabot' appears in the Egg logs, there are more entries referring to me as a customer and how I will not get account anniversary marketing offers, as well 'rebuild x months at xx.xx' and 'clear delq retain history', etc, etc... Surely if Cabot bought the account AND rights (under s.196 as they now claim), this would be all deleted / cleared, as I am no longer a customer and Egg has no rights to continuing processing of my data? Or am I wrong? How do I make them prove exactly what type of purchase they effected when they took over my account? Thanks