returned several items for refund to TK Max - got carried away!

[dione2284]

I had a note through my door of my old address of a police enquiry,

 

I phoned them as soon as and was told by the officer dealing with me i might be in trouble and she would need to see me but it wouldn't be until a week later as she was going on holiday,

obviously I was in floods of tears completely unaware of what I'd done wrong,

 

my partner came home and took me to the station as I was breaking down,

the police lady took me in a room and told me they had cctv footage of me from tk maxx buying something but taking something else (not from their store) back

and that they cannot resell it and I've basically committed fraud,

again she said I would need to be interviewed on Sunday but I couldn't wait,

I knew this was her last day of work so asked to be interviewed tonight which she has agreed,

 

I know I've done wrong the first time it happened was by accident,

I bought a fleece for my partner, took the tags off but as usual i figured I shouldn't have bought it as I cannot afford it so I took (what I thought was the same fleece) back to the shop for a refund

but i was questioned as there were stains on it but they issued a refund anyway,

 

wasn't until I got home I noticed I had taken the wrong fleece back,

realising I could get a refund I did it again with a couple of tops,

I was terrified doing it although I know there is no excuse for it,

I then tried to return a purse which i had bought from tk maxx (just was an older one) and it was faulty but because they couldn't see the fault they wouldn't return it,

 

I knew something was up then and vowed to myself never ever to do what I done again,

 

well it's too late now, the police lady has told me I will be charged but just to be honest with her when I go for the interview,

 

I have never been so petrified, I know I deserve what I get but does any one know what that might be?

 

I'm scared I'm gona mess up what I say and they think I'm lying,

I don't have a criminal record and wouldn't say boo to a ghost,

 

this is killing me,

 

please don't be too harsh with your comments I know I've done so wrong.

[dx100uk]

thread renamed........

 

bit diff to underatand what you did........

 

you foundout you could take old stuff back and get money, and it just snowballed from there?

 

please explain........

 

dx

[dione2284]

Hi yes basically, they have evidence of cctv footage of me buying goods but returning something different on 3 occassions, the first time was accidental, 2nd time wasn't and the 3rd time I felt so humiliated and ashamed that they didn't accept the return I vowed never to do it again but as i said too late for that now.

[theghost]

Make sure you have a solicitor there with you (it is free if you are being interviewed i na Police station).

 

If you admit what you did you will probably get a caution on first offence.

 

 

By the sounds of it though you only took 1 item back to the shop that was not bought from there - the first fleece.

 

What items did you take back the second time? And where did they come from? You say a 'couple of tops' - does that mean tops not bought from TK Maxx? Suprising that they too kthem abck to start with.

[rebel11]

Hi dione

 

If your struggling to cope with this, pop down to your local CAB office. They can help and support you. Sometimes things look a lot worse then they are.

[perplexity]

If you admit what you did you will probably get a caution on first offence.

 

 

I would not be so sure of that, because it is the prerogative of TK-Max to pursue a private prosecution if they so see fit and it looks like they have spent some considerable time on assembling the CCT evidence.

 

In their position I would want a "result".

[dione2284]

I am really struggling to cope, I feel like I've committed murderer and am going to go to jail, I went to see a lawyer yesterday and thought I would come out feeling better but just felt even worse, I've done nothing but cry, I'm losing a lot of weight as I can't eat, the lawyer told me the police will try make it worse than it is so just to answer 'no comment' to all their questions but I thought this would make things worse, CAB couldn't help me because they said they don't deal with the law I'd have to see a lawyer, I know if I was to go to this interview on Sunday alone I'll crumble and just admit to things I haven't even done, I'm coming up with so much crap in my head like what if they are lying about only having 2-3 occasions caught on cctv but have more (I shop in that store a lot and innocently buy things and take them back) only a few times I've took older things back and it wasn't for anything sinister, how far back can they check cctv? the police lady told me not to worry myself too much and it isn't as if it was hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of stuff but again is she just saying that and going to try catch me out? I have absolutely no idea what to expect on Sunday and I really can't remember specifically what the items that I took back were, I am just presuming it was the fleece and the tops but if I'm wrong it'll look like I'm lying, sorry I'm rambling I'm just so petrified I'm going to get interigated on Sunday and if I say I can't remember, I think that looks bad too, I just wish the ground would open and swallow me up, I am not a bad person, I wouldn't hurt a fly, I just can't handle this at all. I'm going to see a different lawyer today and pray he is better as I feel the one I saw yesterday just wanted to get home.

[perplexity]

I fail to see what a lawyer could do about it.

 

There is no magic wand to wave and "only a few times", "I really can't remember" or "no comment" is not going to get you off with a police caution, rather the opposite. The police would only ever issue a caution to the extent that a confession of guilt is full and frank.

 

If you carry on like this it'll go to a hearing and the court will adjourn while you are sent off for a psychiatric assessment.

 

If you'd rather not be so tangled up in the system the need is to remember, to come up with a credible version of events, a story that a Magistrate could make some sense of, and to acknowledge that the offence is serious.

 

Your best bet would probably have been to offer TK-Max a considerable sum of money as a compensation, but it seems to be too late for that.

 

If you are anxious over what to expect of a trial, go along to the court to observe the process in action, how they actually deal with this sort of thing.

[dione2284]

Hey guys, I'm not going to ramble on in this comment, I've decided with advice from a lawyer not to answer any questions on Sunday as I don't want to make anything any worse so basically after I've been read my rights I'm going to read something to them (as I will be a shaking, crying, terrified mess) along the lines of 'I accept I will be charged on the evidence of the 2-3 occassions you have on cctv, I do not wish to answer any questions as I am too upset and confused' the lawyer tells me it's not the crime of the century but I am still so scared, I just hope I don't get detained for the night???

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I don't understand how TK Maxx would take back something that they didn't sell. Surely they would need a receipt that matched the goods being returned? Perhaps the member of staff who took the goods back needs a bit of a talking to!

[theghost]

They will not detain you unless they have no staff or somehting.

 

It will prob be an interview and then straight out

 

You simply will not get jailed if this is your first offence (even then it woudl have to go to court first)

 

remember that if you go 'guilty' and admit it the Police may be willing to resolve things quicker - such as with a caution

 

if you deny it then they may pursue you through court and I believe a caution is not available unless you accept what you did.

 

at the interview stage the police may speak to your lawyer before the interview and indicate what the worst case scaenrio is and what they would prefer to do.

 

remember, your statement in interview is important, if you admit guilt or deny guilt that will affect what happens. if you want to admit it, dont make a statement that says so little so as not to be an admission.

[dione2284]

Well i am really in a state of panic, I went to see yet another solicitor and they told me not to appear on Sunday as I would be incriminating myself as I haven't admitted to anything and she thinks they have insufficient evidence or they would have arrested and charged me already, so I have done as she said and am now very anxiously awaiting the police coming to arrest me, the solicitor that did turn up on Sunday when I was meant to be there said they would have charged me and let me out, he found out they are charging me on £70 worth of things that I returned to tk maxx but their main concern is if it has been going on longer than what they've got evidence of, I am so terrified and don't know what to do, I'm sitting by my window right now waiting on them coming for me, my partner thinks I'm adding too much arms and legs to this and that I won't go to jail for £70, but it's still fraud, and I've shopped in there for years and constantly bought things and returned things in good faith but only done this two or three times, when the police come to get me I've to ask them to detain me then answer no comment to any of their questions, this is going to be so hard for me as I'm not a nasty person, I had spoke to the laywer who turned up on Sunday and obviously appologised and he said the best thing I could do is call the police officer and arrange another interview but then the other solicitor tells me not to and to wait for the police coming to me, so many people are saying different things, what do i do?

[theghost]

well..... you take your chances.

 

if you havent been arrested and you didnt show up to an appintment at the Poccie then they may well come and arrest you when convenient for them.

[LaurynM]

Personally I can't see them giving you anything other than a caution (maximum) for £70 worth, plus you returned items to them which THEY accepted, minus tags and/or receipts, so they were a little negligent as well.

 

If you know you havent done it before what you say was your first incident then let them dig as far back as possible, they wont find anything

 

They shouldnt be returning worn items, without tags, without receipts, that didnt even come from their store in the first place, although you did wrong and you know you did, but I would hope that the police could use their resources in more important cases, and TX Maxx could take the hit for £70 worth on the basis that their staff werent totally innocent either and shouldnt have returned the items.

 

Thanks

Lauryn

[theghost]

Well the offence of fraud has been commited - doesnt matter whether TK MAXX took it back too easily

 

To be fair to the Police they seemed to have played fairly - it will now cost them more in resources to come and make an arrest - and they can hardly drop it now.

[perplexity]

Now, at least I see what a lawyer could do about it.

 

She could treat it all as a game of poker, persuade you to raise the stakes by annoying the police and then you could indeed end up with a custodial sentence which was not so likely before.

 

Congratulations.

 

Short of all the details I am wondering how you expected to get away with this to start with, as would the police and whoever is obliged to try the case.

 

Instead of leaning on the opinion of those who are not really so likely to put your welfare above their own, here is some hard and fast advice to heed, from the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

 

Inferences from accused’s silence

 

34 Effect of accused’s failure to mention facts when questioned or charged.

 

(1) Where, in any proceedings against a person for an offence, evidence is given that the accused—

 

(a) at any time before he was charged with the offence, on being questioned under caution by a constable trying to discover whether or by whom the offence had been committed, failed to mention any fact relied on in his defence in those proceedings; or

 

(b) on being charged with the offence or officially informed that he might be prosecuted for it, failed to mention any such fact,being a fact which in the circumstances existing at the time the accused could reasonably have been expected to mention when so questioned, charged or informed, as the case may be, subsection (2) below applies.

 

(2) Where this subsection applies—

 

(a) a magistrates’ court inquiring into the offence as examining justices;

 

(b) a judge, in deciding whether to grant an application made by the accused under paragraph 2 of Schedule 3 to the Crime and Disorder Act 1998

 

© the court, in determining whether there is a case to answer;and

 

(d) the court or jury, in determining whether the accused is guilty of the offence charged,may draw such inferences from the failure as appear proper. Where the accused was at an authorised place of detention at the time of the failure, subsections (1) and (2) above do not apply if he had not been allowed an opportunity to consult a solicitor prior to being questioned, charged or informed as mentioned in subsection (1) above.

 

(3) Subject to any directions by the court, evidence tending to establish the failure may be given before or after evidence tending to establish the fact which the accused is alleged to have failed to mention.

 

(4) This section applies in relation to questioning by persons (other than constables) charged with the duty of investigating offences or charging offenders as it applies in relation to questioning by constables; and in subsection (1) above “officially informed” means informed by a constable or any such person.(5)

 

This section does not—

 

(a) prejudice the admissibility in evidence of the silence or other reaction of the accused in the face of anything said in his presence relating to the conduct in respect of which he is charged, in so far as evidence thereof would be admissible apart from this section; or

 

(b) preclude the drawing of any inference from any such silence or other reaction of the accused which could properly be drawn apart from this section.

 

(6) This section does not apply in relation to a failure to mention a fact if the failure occurred before the commencement of this section.

 

It might be a good idea to read the rest of that part of the Act, while you are at it.

 

The failure to turn up to a police interview is admissible evidence. Whether or not whoever would have to try the case is going to treat it as evidence of guilt or as evidence of innocence is for you to decide for yourself.

[dione2284]

what do i do, do i call the police officer, explain that a solicitor told me not to attend interview and arrange for another one or do I wait for them to come get me? My solicitor's trying to get it through to me not to incriminate myself by attending intervew as she doesn't want me to get a criminal record and also she thinks their evidence is not enough, that's why they want me to go in willingly, but I feel I am making things worse, I am going through all this in my head 24-7 do I listen to the police or my lawyer, I'm so confused

[honeybee13]

Hi there. Has your lawyer spoken to the police? I imagine this is allowed and then she could explain everything to them herself.

 

Are you able to contact her by phone?

 

My best, HB

[dione2284]

Hi no she's not spoke to them, basically any lawyer I do speak to can't do anything until something happens, like being charged or detained and I've just to wait it out, she said they may not even come out for £70 but it still doesn't help me, I'm meant to be starting a new job soon but can't even think about it until this is over with, it could be weeks or even months before they (if they even do) turn up at the door, then I have to be quite horrible to them by telling them I want to be detained, this is going to give me a nervous breakdown.

[perplexity]

.... she said they may not even come out for £70 but it still doesn't help me,

 

 

I make no suggestion as to what to do because the solicitor may be right or may be wrong, in practical terms.

 

In an ideal world every suspicion of crime would be thoroughly investigated and every case would go to trial. In the real world there are far too many crooks to cope with and the cost to the taxpayer is enormous. It depends on where you live, how much there is for the police to have to deal with.

 

If that is OK with you, the chance is there to take, to be a dodgy little cheat and hope to get away with it. If you simply don't mind that the police and the rest of the world are going to wish you were were dead, far too much of a pain to be bothered with, that is a choice for you to make.

 

If you rather have something to be proud of, get it over with; help them out; make amends.

 

It amazes me, the way that the crooks and cheats turn up, day after day, to as if to expect to be applauded, .... makes me wonder what sort of world they inhabit, where this would be the norm.