Tomtom One Problems

[Dammam]

A friend of mine , a pensioner, bought a TomTom One unit from Comet as he will be travelling to Birmingham this week and wants a bit of assurance that he'll not get lost.

The unit has been working fine for a couple of weeks, but when he put the address in Birmingham the software crashed - it still worked for a number of other places but not for Birmingham and some nearby areas - not even Birmingham Airport was recognised!

 

I checked on my own unit and the address comes up fine.

 

He took the unit back and explained, the young lad gave him some flannel about it being the satallite not connecting and it would "probably kick-in on the journey".

My friend didn't accept this and asked for a replacement. The assistant said he couldn't offer a replacement and said to phone TomTom on an 0845 number to sort it out. This route was also refused and eventually they offered a replacement.

 

However........

 

The replacement was the display model, and he then said he couldn't offer a new Sim Card so put the old one in the unit. It was only on the way home that my friend thought "what happens if it's the software that's wrong"?

Of course, it IS the software.

 

So now I'm going to go in tomorrow to sort it out. A few problems though:-

 

1. The original packaging has been thrown out.

2. My friend has lost the receipt, although he has his credit card statement showing Comet have taken the money - can't see this as a problem as they already accepted it on Saturday.

 

What are my (his) rights? Should I ask for a replacement Sim card and try this out first? If this doesn't solve it or they are unable to provide, can I get a refund out of them?

As they gave him a display model, should I be pushing for a discount as it's not a new unit?

 

Anything else I can hit them with?

 

Thanks

[barracad]

The item should be of reasonable quality, and fit for the purpose, which it is not. Whether it is the sim card or the unit, he should get a full refund or a replacement.

 

I doubt he'll get a discount as they'll either take the display model back and give him a refund, or give him a replacement. However he could try asking for some kind of goodwill gesture as he has had to return the item twice.

 

If they try to refer you to TomTom, he needs to explain that he wishes to rescind his contract, and under the Sale of Goods Act it is the retailer who are responsible, not the manufacturer.

[Rich44]

First off to avoid confusion its NOT a sim card its an SD card so you know sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

Secondly if its the software on the SD card thats corrupted (from the sound of it) then that software is on the CD all you need to do is to reinstall it onto the card via your computer

 

Also check what sw version its running the current one is 5.450 if its under that then go here

TomTom, portable GPS car navigation systems

 

Follow the instructions, you don't need to get a replacement from the sound of it just a little time spent with a PC and the website/manual and to be fair to the retailers these things are designed to be used in conjunction with a PC and aren't simple fool proof devices they can be just as cantankerous as a PC as theyre running software on them the same way a PC does I dont think the problem you describe is a hardware problem as such although it's up to you if you would rather try to change the SD card as well although I dont think the retailer will let you as they have to be activated individually

[Dammam]

Yes, I said Sim instead of SD - was rushing to get an answer as he travels on Wednesday.

To be honest, I don't see why he should have to go to the trouble of changing files on the net - not least because he doesn't have internet access. As I said, he's a pensioner and whilst this alone does not preclude people from using PCs etc, the percentage of people using this 'new' technology is significantly lower.

The staff at Comet made no mention of a degree of PC knowledge being either neccessary or desireable in owning this beast, and it was sold as a simple to use solution. I disagree that such a unit should be as temperamental as a pc, as the operating system is surely embedded and set up to use the provided software - not like a pc where you have countless hardware and software possibilities and potential conflicts.

It's so easy for retailers to hide behind software issues to hide from their responsibilities, and that is the problem I'm trying to address here - the software faults I can sort out for him if required, but when he has paid £240 for something that doesn't work as advertised you have to ask the question why does HE have to go to the trouble of trying to sort it? If a washing machine started switching off mid-wash, you wouldn't expect the retailer to say "ah well, it's probably the programming, ring this number and ask them to sort it out for you" or "check out the internet and re-flash the Bios". Why should this be any different?

 

My main concerns are:-

 

Does the disposal of the packaging make any difference to your consumer rights?

 

The item was paid for on 10th August, but the fault (and fault it is, whichever way you look at it) only revealed itself last week. Is he entitled to a refund?

[JonCris]

Although it would be better if you had it the answer is no the disposal of the packing does NOT affect your consumer rights & if the seller claims it does they are lying or more commonly have little or no understanding of the law. Some retailers include such nonsense in their T&C's

 

If the goods became faulty within 6 months of purchase he is entitled to a full refund without having to prove the fault only came about after purchase. Under the law if within 6 months it fails it IS assumed the fault existed prior to sale.

 

Its called the "reversed burden of proof"

 

It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.

In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.

This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.

 

 

[Rich44]

Oh come on its obvious the damn thing is supposed to be used with a PC thats why it comes with a USB cable etc.

 

whether an OS is embedded or not makes no difference at all to anything (ask people with WinXP embedded) they can still have problems have you even read the manual and done a full reset on it?

 

There's a reset button on the bottom of it you will need a paperclip follow the instructions in the book which are also on TomToms website if you look.

 

Any complex device can have a problem with its software it doesnt matter if its a PC or a Satnav device. If you look theres also no need to download anything as the maps etc should all be on the CD that came with the TomTom.

 

At the end of the day these are very complicated devices and as for your analogy with a washing machine well im sorry but that doesnt hold water (sorry couldnt resist the pun!) washing machines are mechanical devices (except the newest ones) the timers are purely mechanical and even on the newest machines they still dont use software in the way that a satnav works.

 

If your friend doesnt have a PC nor access to one then he could very well be in for a hard time with pretty much any satnav as theyre all designed to be updated by computer.

 

As you have already proved by changing the unit it is not a hardware fault if you look on their website all the solutions are on there and being stubborn about it may well get you an exchange this time but....

[barracad]

Oh come on its obvious the damn thing is supposed to be used with a PC

 

I completely disagree. Most Sat Nav systems, including TomTom are designed to be used 'out of the box'. I have a Sat Nav system (of a different make) which I have never connected to my PC although I have the ability to. I have never had cause to connect it to my PC, there is nothing on the packaging that suggests I need a PC to operate it, and I wasn't informed of that.

 

In fact, Halfords offer to set the system up in your car and show you how to use it with all the Sat Nav systems they sell - including the TomTom range. They don't ask you to bring your PC along with you incase it doesn't work.

 

thats why it comes with a USB cable etc.

 

No it doesn't, it comes with a USB cable so that if you wish to update the software in the future you can do so, i.e. to install more up-to-date maps.

 

 

If the unit doesn't work as described then the retailer should sort it out, whether it's the hardware or the software.

[Rich44]

or restore/backup the existing data its also in case the SD card gets corrupted so you can restore it without a computer if it goes belly up like this then you are screwed.

 

I agree they are supposed to be used out of the box but if it goes wrong without one you are screwed

[barracad]

I know where you're coming from, but they aren't sold as PC accessories, and one should expect to be able to use one without a PC.

[Dammam]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

Rich44, whether you're right or wrong is really irrelevant to the question I asked. Whilst in Comet tonight , I read one of the boxes and nowhere on this does it say that a PC is necessary or even recommended. I know all about reset switches etc as I use TomTom on my Acer N35 ppc. Actually, the only time I've ever had a problem which required a reset was when I tried to download some 3rd party voices for a laugh. The unit itself has been faultless in operation, unlike the majority of PC's I use. How resetting the system would make corrupted software work defeats me though.

 

As you say,

 

"I agree they are supposed to be used out of the box but if it goes wrong without one you are screwed"

 

He has one, it's not working correctly out of the box and he is screwed, therefore do you suggest I just tell him to get with the digital age and get an internet account so that he can use his Satnav? I've come on here for CONSUMER advice, not technical advice - I run another forum where I can get that. I can sort the problem for him - I've downloaded a dodgy version of TomTom (and deleted) to see if it works and it does. The fact is, why should I? And what about others who have the same problem and is computer illiterate?

 

 

Anyway, you'll be pleased to know that Comet steadfastly REFUSED to refund the unit - as it was over 28 days from purchase (39 days - or 37 as it was first taken back on Saturday). No amount of quoting the sale of goods act, which I had printed, would budge them from the fact that although the item was bought from them, they couldn't sanction a refund until the unit had been sent back to TomTom for verification that it wasn't working (even though they had already seen it crash in action). They had no stock so wouldn't exchange and wouldn't order one in for that purpose. In short, they were as unhelpful as they were on the last occasion I shopped there and asked for advice (they left me waiting for half an hour and 'forgot' to come back to me).

Of course, waiting for Tomtom to investigate would mean that he can't use the damned thing for the trip it was bought for on Wednesday.

 

Anyone have any CONSUMER advice, or is he stuck with a return to vendor and wait?

[james23_uk]

The Tomtom ONE doesnt come with maps on the CD anyway.

 

I know that the law deems the retailer responsible but in reality it's the manufacturer's fault and they're also in a better position to resolve things like this.

 

A call to Tomtom would have been much more likely to resolve this issue and in a faster time.

[kotfw]

Anyone have any CONSUMER advice, or is he stuck with a return to vendor and wait?

 

This is quite a good web site this will give you everything you need to know.

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

[blacksheep1979]

you do realise this was almost 7 months ago?

[kotfw]

you do realise this was almost 7 months ago?

 

Yes but other people searching still might find the info useful.

[mikefiatx19]

Mike

Edited May 28, 2009 by mikefiatx19

[Rich44]

because im not wrong you imbecile so how do you get it fixed without a PC and without sending it off them chum eh answer me that??????????? Oh wait you cant its then unusable till its sorted, plank, and perhaps you might want to be a bit more constructive with your FIRST post m8

 

Run along back to the rock you crawled out from under

[mikefiatx19]

Mike

Edited May 28, 2009 by mikefiatx19