Ingeus

[G4C389]

My friend got a letter for an 'apprentice open day' by mistake and hasn't been invited so far, what are these open days? Are the offices choca or just a few employers, my friend said he over heard two 'lady' advisers talking about him and referring to him as things I can't say on here

[jasta11]

My friend got a letter for an 'apprentice open day' by mistake and hasn't been invited so far, what are these open days? Are the offices choca or just a few employers, my friend said he over heard two 'lady' advisers talking about him and referring to him as things I can't say on here

 

If it's anything like the Jobs Fair Open Days' I've attended, there will be a lot of talking, handing out leaflets, possibly taking your cv for 'future consideration' but very few - or more likely none - actual jobs available. Just another pointless exercise so they can be seen to be doing something. It might turn out to be of some use but I'd say the odds are against it.

 

Regarding advisors making comments about customers, this is why your friend needs to start recording everything as soon as he's in the WP building. Put his phone on 'record' and stick it in his top pocket, if he hasn't got another recording device. No need to tell them you're doing it - just do it. Never know when it will come in handy. You can't broadcast the recording or publish it, but you can transcribe it into a written complaint should you have to. I've caught a couple of JC bods that way bang to rights

 

It just shows how little the WP think of us, that we're all total idiots. If I was an advisor I'd assume everyone was recording me and I'd watch my mouth at all times.

[antone]

I have a handy little device that looks like a USB stick. Well, actually it is a USB stick and can be used as such, but it also has the capability to record a couple of hours worth of audio at acceptable quality. I think it cost about £10 or so, and is a very discreet way of recording JCP staff, WP advisers and so on.

 

As Jasta says, if you do record meetings (and doing so is a very good idea) please don't post the recording on YouTube or anything like that. Just use it for your own reference.

[frozenelsa]

Hi everyone Im new here, Ive been signing on since just before christmas and was referred to Ingeus about 4-5 weeks ago after I was given a sanction because my adviser decided I was not actively looking for work. I appealed the sanction and it was overturned as I was looking for and still am looking for work.

Last week while I was on another work activity which led to a guaranteed job interview I received a letter from ingeus saying i had a mandatory work activity to start in a charity shop. That letter was the first time I have heard anything from ingeus and the only time they have contacted me. Surely for them to just stick me anywhere is wrong and against certain rules when I have had zero contact with ingeus and never signed anything with or for them. My jobcenter advisor didnt even make the first referral while I was there.

 

Any information and any help anyone can give me would be great and very much appreciated thankyou.

[G4C389]

If it's anything like the Jobs Fair Open Days' I've attended, there will be a lot of talking, handing out leaflets, possibly taking your cv for 'future consideration' but very few - or more likely none - actual jobs available. Just another pointless exercise so they can be seen to be doing something. It might turn out to be of some use but I'd say the odds are against it.

 

Regarding advisors making comments about customers, this is why your friend needs to start recording everything as soon as he's in the WP building. Put his phone on 'record' and stick it in his top pocket, if he hasn't got another recording device. No need to tell them you're doing it - just do it. Never know when it will come in handy. You can't broadcast the recording or publish it, but you can transcribe it into a written complaint should you have to. I've caught a couple of JC bods that way bang to rights

 

It just shows how little the WP think of us, that we're all total idiots. If I was an advisor I'd assume everyone was recording me and I'd watch my mouth at all times.

 

Ok I'll get him to do that, he also over heard advisers say about wil there be 'men' at the open day, (I think that's so pathetic) I left the ingeus office 2 years ago and and the women in there were tacky and very unprofessional, all they did was get in to their little click together chatting the weekend out, but when I first got my job im in now I never once felt settled in the first few months as that place haunted me with phone calls from the contact cente, iv (like my friend) have self esteem issues and I was put down by them women advisers sometimes, snarling, talking about me (sinister) and being snotty for no reason, but the next appointment after me she would be all nice and friendly to them, I also mentioned earlier in this thread a while ago about the same adviser forging my signature on an application form and stupid me didn't do sweet FA about it, I regret it so much

[jasta11]

Hi everyone Im new here, Ive been signing on since just before christmas and was referred to Ingeus about 4-5 weeks ago after I was given a sanction because my adviser decided I was not actively looking for work. I appealed the sanction and it was overturned as I was looking for and still am looking for work.

Last week while I was on another work activity which led to a guaranteed job interview I received a letter from ingeus saying i had a mandatory work activity to start in a charity shop. That letter was the first time I have heard anything from ingeus and the only time they have contacted me. Surely for them to just stick me anywhere is wrong and against certain rules when I have had zero contact with ingeus and never signed anything with or for them. My jobcenter advisor didnt even make the first referral while I was there.

 

Any information and any help anyone can give me would be great and very much appreciated thankyou.

 

 

Hello Frozenelsa and welcome to the forums, there's lots of good advice here from people who've been through it all before, so you're not alone.

 

Seems very strange that Ingeus would just send out a letter telling you to start in a placement without actually getting you in to their office and at least talking to you about it - though as you'll see if you read through all the posts, they're quite capable of anything and aren't known for sticking to the rules, especially when it comes to making money from people.

 

You said you were referred to Ingeus - have you been to their offices for the normal induction and 'meet your advisor' routine or is this letter the first contact ever with them?

[frozenelsa]

Hello and welcome to the forums, there's lots of good advice here from people who've been through it all before, so you're not alone.

 

Seems very strange that Ingeus would just send out a letter telling you to start in a placement without actually getting you in to their office and at least talking to you about it - though as you'll see if you read through all the posts, they're quite capable of anything and aren't known for sticking to the rules, especially when it comes to making money from people.

 

You said you were referred to Ingeus - have you been to their offices for the normal induction and 'meet your advisor' routine or is this letter the first contact ever with them?

 

Literally the letter I received last week telling me about my mwa was the first contact ever, I dont even know where their offices are in my town or if I even have an advisor with them, thankyou for your reply.

[jasta11]

I'm not too clued up on MWA regulations, only the 2 year Work Programme which I did with Ingeus (dreadful!). Hopefully someone with MWA knowledge will be along and give you solid advice.

 

After a brief glance through the MWA Guidance, it seems the Jobcentre have arranged this MWA with Ingeus and left it to them to contact you, hence the letter - but you should at least have had some sort of warning and information on what's happening, rather than a letter arriving out of the blue like that and you having no clue about it. I'd expect to have been called in at some point and be able to discuss it before it was thrust upon me.

 

One section of the MWA Guidelines is very important though;

41. MWA participation becomes mandatory when the provider issues the

claimant with a notice in writing containing details of their placement and what

they are required to do.

42. A claimant who fails to comply, without good cause, will be sanctioned for

13 weeks. A second such failure, within 12 months of the first sanction, will

result in a 26 week sanction.

 

If you've already had the letter to attend then you should attend - always cover yourself and don't give them an excuse to stop your benefits.

 

Stay with us, I'm sure others will have some knowledge of what's happening. In the meantime, I've posted a copy of the MWA guidelines which will tell you what should have been done, assuming the Jobcentre stick to the rules!

[Mr.P]

If you've already had the letter to attend then you should attend - always cover yourself and don't give them an excuse to stop your benefits.

 

Keep all your bus tickets for every trip you make to this placement. Contact Ingeus in writing (either letter or email) and ask (demand ?) what steps they will take to reimburse your travel expenses - If they refuse to acknowledge your letter or reject any expenses claim, follow it up with a formal complaint (in writing) to the DWP/JCP.

 

Oh, and one final word of warning - Just because you are on a Mandatory Work Activity, you are not excused your regular job search. Check with the JCP to see what is expected of you and if you are required to sign on as per normal.

[frozenelsa]

I'm not too clued up on MWA regulations, only the 2 year Work Programme which I did with Ingeus (dreadful!). Hopefully someone with MWA knowledge will be along and give you solid advice.

 

After a brief glance through the MWA Guidance, it seems the Jobcentre have arranged this MWA with Ingeus and left it to them to contact you, hence the letter - but you should at least have had some sort of warning and information on what's happening, rather than a letter arriving out of the blue like that and you having no clue about it. I'd expect to have been called in at some point and be able to discuss it before it was thrust upon me.

 

One section of the MWA Guidelines is very important though;

41. MWA participation becomes mandatory when the provider issues the

claimant with a notice in writing containing details of their placement and what

they are required to do.

42. A claimant who fails to comply, without good cause, will be sanctioned for

13 weeks. A second such failure, within 12 months of the first sanction, will

result in a 26 week sanction.

 

If you've already had the letter to attend then you should attend - always cover yourself and don't give them an excuse to stop your benefits.

 

Stay with us, I'm sure others will have some knowledge of what's happening. In the meantime, I've posted a copy of the MWA guidelines which will tell you what should have been done, assuming the Jobcentre stick to the rules!

 

Thank you I will have a read through those guidelines

 

Keep all your bus tickets for every trip you make to this placement. Contact Ingeus in writing (either letter or email) and ask (demand ?) what steps they will take to reimburse your travel expenses - If they refuse to acknowledge your letter or reject any expenses claim, follow it up with a formal complaint (in writing) to the DWP/JCP.

 

Oh, and one final word of warning - Just because you are on a Mandatory Work Activity, you are not excused your regular job search. Check with the JCP to see what is expected of you and if you are required to sign on as per normal.

 

 

Thank you, yes I will definitely be keeping all bus tickets, one jobcenter adviser seems to think ingeus should of already sorted out and provided either a weekly ticket or allowance for travel and my adviser says to keep them and they will reimburse them after use. It was quite obvious even the jobcenter has had enough of ingeus and Im not the only one who hasnt had contact from them.

 

I can only guess I was put on to ingeus by my adviser because she sanctioned me (it got overturned) and has been about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the sahara desert.

[jasta11]

I've posted a link to the Work Provider Guidance, which you should also read up on. These are the DWP rules that Ingeus and all other WP's have to abide by so by knowing them you can hopefully keep one step ahead if they try and get you to do things that aren't allowed.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-programme-dwp-provider-guidance

 

Chapter 3 Mandation is particularly useful and the one where I - and others here - often caught Ingeus out. Also Chapter 3c Work Experience will be very relevant too. If Ingeus know that you're aware of the guidance and won't be messed about they'll treat you better..well, hopefully anyway!

 

Also remember that the Jobcentre comes first before Ingeus, so if you have to sign on that day then that takes precedence over everything else - it's stated quite clearly in the Chapter 1 Overview guidance;

 

'Some participants may be required to attend mandatory interventions with Jobcentre Plus. For example JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.'

[boomboomboom]

How can an adviser expect someone to do between 15-50 cvs a WEEK does anyone not think that's to much especially after a month u will be sending them straight back out to same company's

[boomboomboom]

I was in Ingeus today just to have a look at my emails as my phone was running out of battery when in town so I went in and went on the PC and this guy was watching me and then came over and Sayed u doing jobs I Sayed no just having a look at my emails he Sayed but do u not do cvs/specs every Friday when ur in I Sayed I have sent then out my cvs/specs he was like do some I Sayed no I don't have an appointment and he was like if u don't u could get sanctioned I was like how is that possible he Sayed ur not doing as I Sayed I was like but my adviser of sick and done my cvs/specs at home and plus I don't have an appointment and then I Sayed am away as u can't make me do it. Can anyone answer back to this am a right in saying am not doing it or not?

[Mr.P]

I've posted a link to the Work Provider Guidance, which you should also read up on. These are the DWP rules that Ingeus and all other WP's have to abide by so by knowing them you can hopefully keep one step ahead if they try and get you to do things that aren't allowed.

 

The link you posted is for the Work Programme. frozenelsa would appear to be conscripted on a Mandatory Work Activity via Ingeus. For MWA providers, there is another set of documents that they should be following: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mandatory-work-activity-dwp-provider-guidance

 

In addition, there is the generic guidance that covers all DWP programmes: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/framework-generic-guidance-provider-guidance

 

A fair bit of the documentation is repetitive, so it is worth sitting down with a notepad & pen and noting the pertinent sections so that you can quote them when needed.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

I was in Ingeus today just to have a look at my emails as my phone was running out of battery when in town so I went in and went on the PC and this guy was watching me and then came over and Sayed u doing jobs I Sayed no just having a look at my emails he Sayed but do u not do cvs/specs every Friday when ur in I Sayed I have sent then out my cvs/specs he was like do some I Sayed no I don't have an appointment and he was like if u don't u could get sanctioned I was like how is that possible he Sayed ur not doing as I Sayed I was like but my adviser of sick and done my cvs/specs at home and plus I don't have an appointment and then I Sayed am away as u can't make me do it. Can anyone answer back to this am a right in saying am not doing it or not?

 

None of that makes sense to me

[Charlotte_Henderson]

How can an adviser expect someone to do between 15-50 cvs a WEEK does anyone not think that's to much especially after a month u will be sending them straight back out to same company's

 

It is to much, as like you say you will be sending them to the same companies before to long.

Ingeus dont care about this, all they care about is, that they are annoying you.

[essexmat]

Been driven so doolally with INGEUS in 4 appointments I have lost track of what I am doing myself but it proves they don't care or look. I just looked at my diaries and I applied for the same job 3 times!

[jasta11]

I was in Ingeus today just to have a look at my emails as my phone was running out of battery when in town so I went in and went on the PC and this guy was watching me and then came over and Sayed u doing jobs I Sayed no just having a look at my emails he Sayed but do u not do cvs/specs every Friday when ur in I Sayed I have sent then out my cvs/specs he was like do some I Sayed no I don't have an appointment and he was like if u don't u could get sanctioned I was like how is that possible he Sayed ur not doing as I Sayed I was like but my adviser of sick and done my cvs/specs at home and plus I don't have an appointment and then I Sayed am away as u can't make me do it. Can anyone answer back to this am a right in saying am not doing it or not?

 

From what you say you just went into Ingeus of your own accord to use their facilities and had no written formal appointment?

 

If that's the case then they certainly can't tell you what you should be doing as you're there voluntarily and no mandatory appointment was made. The threat to try and sanction you is totally wrong too - how can they report you for not doing something they never told you to do in the first place! Sounds like the advisor is just throwing their weight about. Pity you hadn't recorded the incident, you could have reported it. you stil lcould but no doubt the advisor will deny everything. This is why it's important to get hard evidence.

 

If they send you a Mandatory Activity letter telling you to come in and send off CV's then that's all well and good - it's official then so you have to do it and they could report you for failing to do as they asked, but if you've just called in on spec to do a bit of job hunting then they can't lay down any orders. Their facilities are there to be used, it's part of their job.

[essexmat]

From what you say you just went into Ingeus of your own accord to use their facilities and had no written formal appointment?

 

If that's the case then they certainly can't tell you what you should be doing as you're there voluntarily and no mandatory appointment was made. The threat to try and sanction you is totally wrong too - how can they report you for not doing something they never told you to do in the first place! Sounds like the advisor is just throwing their weight about. Pity you hadn't recorded the incident, you could have reported it. you stil lcould but no doubt the advisor will deny everything. This is why it's important to get hard evidence.

 

If they send you a Mandatory Activity letter telling you to come in and send off CV's then that's all well and good - it's official then so you have to do it and they could report you for failing to do as they asked, but if you've just called in on spec to do a bit of job hunting then they can't lay down any orders. Their facilities are there to be used, it's part of their job.

 

That is spot on and in fact they should be praising you for doing something off your own back when you were not even supposed to be there. Some people are just bullies and unfortunately some people cannot defend themselves - if they tried anything like that with me they would find themselves in a whole heap of mess and trouble.

 

Ironically I have spent all morning reading a job desc/spec, doing my CV and CL for a job I liked the sound of, spent a total of 3.5 hours on the application and emailed it off. 20 minutes later got an email back, and I quote:

 

"Thank you for your application for XXXXX. Unfortunately this post has now been filled but we thank you for your time and wish you every success in your future"

 

I emailed them back and told them closing date was 31st March so obviously they have filled it internally. I also FW: all docs and evidence to INGEUS adviser to say I have just wasted my time like I guess most applications are a waste of time. I have a note to call their HR department tomake a formal complaint this afternoon.

[jasta11]

I sympathise totally - obviously they already had someone internal lined up for the job but had to advertise it so as to keep within the law and appear to be open to applications. I've worked for companies like that and all it does is to build up the hopes of the outside applicants who attend the interview never knowing that the job is already spoken for and they haven't a chance.

 

I'd much prefer it if employers could actually say what they liked when advertising vacancies, just so it would save us all time. For example, if they only want people under 35 then they should be allowed to state that and save older people the waste of time ever applying. Long time ago I once had an interview for a job and after being told I was 'just what they wanted' they then said '..but we won't be giving you the job as it's an all-female office and we'd worry about putting a male in there'. I demanded - and got - my expenses money for attending the worthless interview.

[boomboomboom]

From what you say you just went into Ingeus of your own accord to use their facilities and had no written formal appointment?

 

If that's the case then they certainly can't tell you what you should be doing as you're there voluntarily and no mandatory appointment was made. The threat to try and sanction you is totally wrong too - how can they report you for not doing something they never told you to do in the first place! Sounds like the advisor is just throwing their weight about. Pity you hadn't recorded the incident, you could have reported it. you stil lcould but no doubt the advisor will deny everything. This is why it's important to get hard evidence.

 

If they send you a Mandatory Activity letter telling you to come in and send off CV's then that's all well and good - it's official then so you have to do it and they could report you for failing to do as they asked, but if you've just called in on spec to do a bit of job hunting then they can't lay down any orders. Their facilities are there to be used, it's part of their job.

 

yeh went in to check my emails just incase i had any job info and my phone was dying so just went in for a quick email search then home and i usually go in to ingeus on a friday for the past few weeks at my own accord to do my cvs/specs but i didnt today as i already done them at home as i have my own printer to print my cv and specs off so no need to go in now to do that and i was thinking that u cant tell someone ur getting sanction when u dont have an appointment (MAN) so u dont need to be there and they have no rights to tell u what to do without a (MAN) plus wish i could have got evidence but one of them things u dont expect that when u are in for 2mins.

 

if they gave me a (MAN) saying come in to do cvs specs i would defo but i have been going in there on my own accord to do the cvs specs as my printer broke and was in no rush to get a new one as i could use the ingeus office computers and plus if a got a sanction raised for that i would be raging big time as that is one stupid sanction doubt.

[boomboomboom]

That is spot on and in fact they should be praising you for doing something off your own back when you were not even supposed to be there. Some people are just bullies and unfortunately some people cannot defend themselves - if they tried anything like that with me they would find themselves in a whole heap of mess and trouble.

 

Ironically I have spent all morning reading a job desc/spec, doing my CV and CL for a job I liked the sound of, spent a total of 3.5 hours on the application and emailed it off. 20 minutes later got an email back, and I quote:

 

"Thank you for your application for XXXXX. Unfortunately this post has now been filled but we thank you for your time and wish you every success in your future"

 

I emailed them back and told them closing date was 31st March so obviously they have filled it internally. I also FW: all docs and evidence to INGEUS adviser to say I have just wasted my time like I guess most applications are a waste of time. I have a note to call their HR department tomake a formal complaint this afternoon.

 

yeh they should be praising me as i have went in there for the past few fridays to do cvs specs as my printer broke and was in no rush to buy a new one as i could use ingeus office computers.yeh it is like bulling telling u to do something when hes not your adviser mine is off sick still and when i dont even have an appointment (MAN) so was going in at my own accord.

 

that isnt right epically when u have wasted 3.5hours doing that make a complaint.

 

i have been sanction before for a job centre adviser giving me a job in march 2012 telling me to apply and i went home and try to but the job had closed and when into job centre for next sign on and got a different person sign me on and sayed u applied for that job i sayed no it was closed bla bla bla and then got letter sent out saying sanction for not applying for job and i got on to the company email about the close date on this job and they sayed this job closed on 2nd last week in February i printed it off took it into job centre and a guy spoke to me and put the email i proved that my adviser gave me a job in march that had closed a month before in the appeal decision and got my 4 weeks job centre money refund and i never got that adviser again surprise surprise trying to get my money stopped thats what i sayed.

 

plus yesterday i was in ingeus to give a job sheet in and old friend of mine is on ingeus and he got asked to prove he had sent cvs specs away but how can u prove this expect showing all the job names u had sent that week (plus how do they know that hes sending or not sending them u cant prove that) he does send them away but just making a point between the ()

[antone]

 

I'd much prefer it if employers could actually say what they liked when advertising vacancies, just so it would save us all time. For example, if they only want people under 35 then they should be allowed to state that and save older people the waste of time ever applying. Long time ago I once had an interview for a job and after being told I was 'just what they wanted' they then said '..but we won't be giving you the job as it's an all-female office and we'd worry about putting a male in there'. I demanded - and got - my expenses money for attending the worthless interview.

 

Both those scenarios would be illegal in most cases these days.

[essexmat]

So let me guess this right, WPs like INGEUS get bonuses for getting you back in to work. So how does this work if:

 

1. You done your CV yourself with no help via another source e.g. got professional help

2. You do all of your own covering letters and tailor them for each job

3. You are competent and versatile at interviews from years of experience

4. You looked for work on numerous websites, agencies, sent spec letters and CVs and done all the groundwork yourself

5. You used your own IT, electric, printer, paper and broadband which YOU pay for

6. You paid for your own clothes for interview as well as travel costs

 

As far as I can see this will be the case with me WHEN I get a job so I have no intention of giving INGEUS any credit whatsoever and will simply sign off and start my employment. They certainly WILL NOT be getting employer details from me.

[boomboomboom]

So let me guess this right, WPs like INGEUS get bonuses for getting you back in to work. So how does this work if:

 

1. You done your CV yourself with no help via another source e.g. got professional help

2. You do all of your own covering letters and tailor them for each job

3. You are competent and versatile at interviews from years of experience

4. You looked for work on numerous websites, agencies, sent spec letters and CVs and done all the groundwork yourself

5. You used your own IT, electric, printer, paper and broadband which YOU pay for

6. You paid for your own clothes for interview as well as travel costs

 

As far as I can see this will be the case with me WHEN I get a job so I have no intention of giving INGEUS any credit whatsoever and will simply sign off and start my employment. They certainly WILL NOT be getting employer details from me.

 

yeh well sayed we do all the things but ingeus get the credit how does that work they arent the ones unemployed.

 

we are unemployed and they are ment to be help us but all they do is make it worst by trying everything to get u a sanction so they are happy and u live at home with no cash.

 

i end ingeus in middle of may not be long!