Ingeus

[antone]

my friend hadn't heard from ingeus for ages before going on holiday and he hasn't got copies of the form he submitted, the letter arrived when he was away and he only found out about the appointment the night before via text message. so is it looking likely he'll be sanctioned? :/

 

Not really, no. Would be best to have copies of the form, but it's not essential as it should be recorded on the Jobcentre computer systems.

[Mr.P]

Still haven't answered the question: Had the (Ingeus) adviser been informed of the holiday ?

 

If "yes" and the JCP had also been informed of (and approved) the holiday, then appointment should never had been made. The resulting benefit doubt would then be vexatious at best and should be rejected as soon as the "good reason" letter is returned.

[joeski]

Still haven't answered the question: Had the (Ingeus) adviser been informed of the holiday ?

 

If "yes" and the JCP had also been informed of (and approved) the holiday, then appointment should never had been made. The resulting benefit doubt would then be vexatious at best and should be rejected as soon as the "good reason" letter is returned.

 

no ingeus were not informed as he assumed that if the jobcentre approved it all would be ok. he didn't hear from ingeus for ages so thats why he decided not to inform them.

[joeski]

wouldn't my friend get sanctioned simply because he didn't inform ingeus of his plans even though he informed the jobcentre and filled out the correct paperwork?

[antone]

wouldn't my friend get sanctioned simply because he didn't inform ingeus of his plans even though he informed the jobcentre and filled out the correct paperwork?

 

No, he shouldn't be, although it is always best to inform the WP provider of such things.

[joeski]

No, he shouldn't be, although it is always best to inform the WP provider of such things.

 

thanks, i'll tell him to bear it in mind for the future. its typical that you don't hear from advisors for weeks on end, then when you go away become ill or get a job they get in contact.

[joeski]

also out of interest does your benefits get stopped until a decision is made or does it only effect your benefits if the decision goes against you?

[antone]

Your benefits should not be stopped until you've had the chance to put your side of the story. The DWP should send a letter asking for that information before any decision is made.

[joeski]

Your benefits should not be stopped until you've had the chance to put your side of the story. The DWP should send a letter asking for that information before any decision is made.

 

my friend signed on thursday and its when he got home he got the letter saying a doubt has arisen, so that means he'll still get payed as normal on tuesday and it'll only effect his claim if they decide to sanction?

[antone]

my friend signed on thursday and its when he got home he got the letter saying a doubt has arisen, so that means he'll still get payed as normal on tuesday and it'll only effect his claim if they decide to sanction?

 

Should be OK. As long as the signing adviser put his payment through as normal (and they'd have told him if they weren't going to do this) then he should be paid as normal on Tuesday. Any sanction would only apply to future payments after the sanction decision was made.

[Mr.P]

wouldn't my friend get sanctioned simply because he didn't inform ingeus of his plans even though he informed the jobcentre and filled out the correct paperwork?

No, he shouldn't be, although it is always best to inform the WP provider of such things.

 

From the DWP Generic Guidance which applies to all DWP contracts/provisions, Chapter 2:

 

Holidays

53. Job Seekers Allowance (JSA) regulations allow claimants to be treated as actively seeking employment when away from home on holiday (within GB), but they must be willing and available to return immediately to take up employment. This does not apply to claimants on Mandatory Work Activity, as the placement is only for four weeks holiday periods are not permitted. For longer mandatory placements, if the claimant notified the provider in advance that they would be absent on holiday, this will be acceptable as long as JCP accept they are Available/ASE, and a DMA referral would not be required. It is proposed that a cumulative period of 2 weeks holiday during a 26 week placement is reasonable, but anything over that would need to be referred to DMA for a decision. Provider and adviser guidance will be amended to cover this. However if the provider has any doubt in any individual circumstance then a DMA referral should be made for the DM to make a decision.

 

Technically, the claimant should have informed the WP provider before going on holiday... But as they are only the "data processors", I would have thought it acceptable to inform the JCP (which was done) - If there was a lawful requirement to notify the WP provider, the FLA at the JCP should have informed the claimant.

 

joeski: I'd suggest that your friend adds a short note to his "good reason" letter saying something along the lines:

"If there was a requirement to notify Ingeus of my holiday, the JCP adviser should have pointed this out when I handed in the relevant form"

[joeski]

unfortunately he has already send the good reason letter back to the DMA team but what i did make him put down is that he was made to put the address in which he was staying at on the holiday form and that anyone including ingeus could contact him there. also how come ingeus never telephone people to ask when a suitable time for an appointment would be?

[Mr.P]

how come ingeus never telephone people to ask when a suitable time for an appointment would be?

 

It is the same for all agencies, the DWP included - You are unemployed, therefore you have nothing better to do than do what you're told as and when we tell you to.

 

In reality, some have care commitments, others are engaged in voluntary work or short courses - Now, if they would care to ask, much of the hostilities would disappear.

[joeski]

It is the same for all agencies, the DWP included - You are unemployed, therefore you have nothing better to do than do what you're told as and when we tell you to.

 

In reality, some have care commitments, others are engaged in voluntary work or short courses - Now, if they would care to ask, much of the hostilities would disappear.

 

i was on a short course last year and i told them i would be on attending training on these dates, my advisor clearly wasn't listening as he booked me an appointment for ones of the days i was on the course. me and my friend both attend ingeus and both have issues with anxiety and get very nervous, we have told them on numerous occasions abouts our problems and that we would like help to overcome them yet they haven't done a single thing to help. it would seem all places like ingeus are interested in is getting people into any old job regardless of their situation

[antone]

i was on a short course last year and i told them i would be on attending training on these dates, my advisor clearly wasn't listening as he booked me an appointment for ones of the days i was on the course. me and my friend both attend ingeus and both have issues with anxiety and get very nervous, we have told them on numerous occasions abouts our problems and that we would like help to overcome them yet they haven't done a single thing to help. it would seem all places like ingeus are interested in is getting people into any old job regardless of their situation

 

Correct, the WPPs are not particularly interested in you. And they don't try to help with the anxiety you describe because, well, they can't. They don't know how. They're contracted by the government to "help" you find work but they lack the knowledge and skills to actually do so.

 

Of course, I am not saying that people with challenges should simply give up and live on benefits, far from it. Life on benefits stinks - I know this from experience. But Ingeus, or whoever (they're all the same, really) don't have any real means to help.

[keiron rackham123]

You know what i don't understand about the work programme, i have to show them my job search activity and the job centre, usually the job centre just let you sign on then go but now they want to see it, even worse the WP want screen shots and print outs although the JC just want a written record, but my point is why am i doing this surely one checking it would be adequate, i wonder why the JC has changed do they know something we don't? One final question do i have to provide screen shots and print outs, if a written record is good enough for JC then it should be good enough for them?

Edited February 9, 2014 by keiron rackham123
spelling mistake

[joeski]

Correct, the WPPs are not particularly interested in you. And they don't try to help with the anxiety you describe because, well, they can't. They don't know how. They're contracted by the government to "help" you find work but they lack the knowledge and skills to actually do so.

 

Of course, I am not saying that people with challenges should simply give up and live on benefits, far from it. Life on benefits stinks - I know this from experience. But Ingeus, or whoever (they're all the same, really) don't have any real means to help.

 

id do anything to get off benefits, i find the whole system at the moment depressing nerve racking and a little frightening. the staff at places like ingeus really aren't helping me or my friend and i wish the current WP would get replaced with something more productive.

[Mr.P]

the WP want screen shots and print outs although the JC just want a written record,[...] if a written record is good enough for JC then it should be good enough for them?

 

One would have thought what is good enough for the JCP would be good enough for any WP provider. However, the latter is prone to making up rules as they go along to hide the fact that they don't have the tools, resources, or knowledge to actually help anyone back in to work.

 

That said, a JCP adviser can ask for supporting evidence such as screen shots, printouts of emails, and letters in response to job applications - This shouldn't be done as a matter of routine, only in cases where there is a suspicion that the written record is "inaccurate" before referring it to a DM.

 

If a WP programme "adviser" kept demanding screenshots or printouts, I'd be challenging the legal basis for the demands and point out that their task is to help a claimant back in to work, not to perform tasks that the JCP should be doing - Caution is advised if you wish to go down this route as you could be branded a trouble maker and become a target for sanctions.

[keiron rackham123]

Usually i do supply a written record but this is a new adviser, i also think it is very unfair how you go back on the WP after finishing work, i had a 3 month contract for a job lasted a bit longer, signed back on didn't go through as a rapid re claim so surely should be classed as a new claim, all in all i just hate this stupid WP everything i do there i can do at home or with the JC.

[Mr.P]

UI also think it is very unfair how you go back on the WP after finishing work, i had a 3 month contract for a job lasted a bit longer, signed back on didn't go through as a rapid re claim so surely should be classed as a new claim

 

Claiming JSA after working three months does indeed count as a new claim. Unfortunately, your WP sentence is for 104 weeks regardless of any breaks in your claim. On the bright side, time spent in employment counts as part of the 104 weeks and whilst working, you are under no obligation to engage with the provider.

[joeski]

once my friends ingeus advisor asked him whilst doing a job search with him if he knew his log in details for his total jobs account, he politely told the advisor he had them written down at home and couldn't remember them.

[osdset]

Universal Jobmatch. list of fake employers on it.

http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/universal-jobmatch-list-of-fake-employers-part-1/

 

Keep your eyes peeled.

[joeski]

Universal Jobmatch. list of fake employers on it.

http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/universal-jobmatch-list-of-fake-employers-part-1/

 

Keep your eyes peeled.

 

 

omg i think i have sent my c/v off to some of these companies :O

[keiron rackham123]

Lol i've just thought the WP is a tory thing, do you think there is labor supporters working there, i know my area is labor lol.

 

I think we are at that stage now where they say jump and we say how high !!!

[Mr.P]

Lol i've just thought the WP is a tory thing,

 

It was the last Labour government that set up the whole thing - It was called New Deal, then Flexible New Deal. Back then, it was a series of pointless appointments with an "adviser" and perhaps a few worthless "courses". The only difference between the old schemes and the current Work Programme is the way it is funded and the length of the sentence. The content is still the same, as are the people running it.