HELP ! Car Repaired through Elephant.co.uk authorised repairer 6 weeks ago- unsatisfactory standard of repair.

[jbscotland]

I received a call from a very nice chap at Elephant who was calling in response to my original complaint. He was unaware that I had taken the car back to Arnold Clark.

 

I told him they agreed the car was not in an acceptable state.

 

He apologised and said that he would wholeheartedly support the diagnostic tests if the repairs did not remedy them.

 

I have to take the car in Monday and he will get back to me.

[scaniaman]

Dennis, according to your posts you have never crossed swords with the arnold clark organisation, nor do you seem to have any in depth knowledge on how this crass outfit operates. Until you do, may i respectfully suggest that you do not post antaganistic threads to those of us who Are VICTIMS of this dreadful firm.By their deeds, they have the nack of turning normally well controlled individuals into furious beasts.I intend to creat mahem at their forthcomming Motability event in secc Glasgow, when there shall be a large crowd of prospective customers around. Care to join me????

[jbscotland]

Thanks for backing me up. I have crossed swords with them before after buying my first car and the ripe old age of 20 around 10 years ago and they treated me like ****.

 

The car was terrible and they refused to do anything about it and even accused me of doing things to the car.

This is why to say I was reluctant to take my car to them for repair is an understatement.

 

Arnold Clark cause misery on a daily basis. I would never buy a car from them again and neither will anyone from my family or friends.

 

This issue has taught me to NEVER deal with them and if you have been stung before DO NOT give them a second chance...

 

What are you planning at motability event...do you have a smoke bomb or a stand with slides?

[heliosuk]

The legal advice here is somewhat substandard as actually believe it or not I think you will find the contract for the repairs is actually between JB and Arnold Clark. The liability for the cost of repairs is between JB and Elephant.

 

JB, can you post what Jag it is, year, and damage repaired. It's obviously front end. The warning lights you are getting are indicitative of a fault that could well have been induced during the repair process depending on the damage and no way will AC be able to find it. In fact some Jag dealers will struggle as well possibly.

[jbscotland]

It is a X350 XJ8 4.2 V8 Sport. A very nice car indeed. It was £51,500 new. This is why I was reluctant to take it to AC Repair centre but I was assured by Elephant they were " Jaguar Approved" Naive? Maybe.

 

I have knowledge of the "earth points" behind the driverside headlight which was replaced by AC. If these are not seen to then the errors I am getting will appear.

They will take out the headlight and put in back in at the right angle as well as sort out the bodywork issues. The Technician at AC advised he will check the earth points first before replacing headlights then send the car to Jaguar Glasgow for diagnostics if the error messages still appear after that. The phonecall today from Elephant saying that they will support any diagnostic work is a relief to me.

I know there are 2 x different types of diagnostic equipment. AC have the one that will not find the errors or where they stem from IF it is an electric issue. The Jaguar IDS/WDS system is renowned for finding these faults.

I am confident any faults will be found and repaired.

 

I feel strongly that my original complaint e-mailed to their head office ensured they took my complaint seriously.

[heliosuk]

It is a X350 XJ8 4.2 V8 Sport. A very nice car indeed. It was £51,500 new. This is why I was reluctant to take it to AC Repair centre but I was assured by Elephant they were " Jaguar Approved" Naive? Maybe.

 

I have knowledge of the "earth points" behind the driverside headlight which was replaced by AC. If these are not seen to then the errors I am getting will appear.

They will take out the headlight and put in back in at the right angle as well as sort out the bodywork issues. The Technician at AC advised he will check the earth points first before replacing headlights then send the car to Jaguar Glasgow for diagnostics if the error messages still appear after that. The phonecall today from Elephant saying that they will support any diagnostic work is a relief to me.

I know there are 2 x different types of diagnostic equipment. AC have the one that will not find the errors or where they stem from IF it is an electric issue. The Jaguar IDS/WDS system is renowned for finding these faults.

I am confident any faults will be found and repaired.

 

I feel strongly that my original complaint e-mailed to their head office ensured they took my complaint seriously.

 

Still need to know extent of damage. Earthing WILL NOT usually cause these fault messages in the systems you describe to occur in the area damaged you describe, hence need to know extent of damage and what parts have been replaced.

 

IDS/WDS is mediocre/poor on finding faults but is only available to dealers. Other system will just read the code. Need year of car too.

[heliosuk]

By the way, the fact it is showing all these messages would initially indicate the earthing is all OK. The fault could well be more subtle due to the repair.

[jbscotland]

It is a 2003. The car was damaged to o/s front wing which was replaced, the o/s headlight was smashed and subsequently replaced and the bonnet dented and replaced. There are several bodywork issues which they have agreed to fix and dashboard errors ABS FAULT/ENGINE COOLANT LOW/PARKBRAKE FAULT/DSC NOT AVAILABLE/ Cruise not working/Traction control stops car being driven properly and put brakes on so traction has to be turned off to drive it. In a RWD 4.2 this is not safe.

[heliosuk]

ABS, DSC, Cruise control and traction control are all linked. Without either one of them, none of those systems will work. Can't think why the handbrake should be affected as a result of the repairs and the cooloant level is most probably due to air in the system.

 

Not totally sure but from memory your car might well use a phonic ring system for the ABS etc. This is a magnetic ring as opposed to other systems that rely on a serated drum. Both have their individual pros and cons but in the case of a phonic system any contamination of the ring, even down to metal filings which would be expected in a body repair will knock out all of the systems you mention. As the ring is magnetic, it picks up the slightest so forms a film . All AC computer diagnostics will show is a DTC code. It's the interpretation of these that AC needs to look at something which seems to be inherrant in AC dealerships. They can't check the basics because they don't know how.

 

This is from a company that also operates a training arm that alledgedly trains mechanics..............doh!!!

 

Reality is you will probably have to get it sorted at a Jag dealer who will come out with a host of other work that is not related to the accident and/or is not actually necessary so watch for that!!!

[smed]

I'm not an expert in these things and it might be the wrong thing but..... I remember talking to a guy whom had just bought an XK350, one of the engine bay supports had broken it's weld, the repairing garage (wasn't a Jag main dealer or Jag Indie) disconnected the battery, welded the support back into place and then found that the car wouldn't start - most of the control modules had been damaged by the welding - the garage realised something was wrong when the headlight & tail lights glowed as it was being welded - it transpires that the car needs to sit for around 2-3 hours after the battery is disconnected to allow all the modules to lose their charges - might be that some of the modules on JB's car were damaged causing the error messages - the car was sorted by a Jag main dealer in the end at a cost of £8K

[sailor sam]

Sorry Helio but I have to disagree on this one. The insuarnce co are responisble to the OP as it was them who engaged AC as their 'approved' bodyshop. Obviously the OP will have to communicate with the AC people to point out what his concerns are but at the end of the day, the insurers will be picking up the bill (less the excess) thus making them under contract with AC. Had the OP chosen AC as his preferred repairer, then that would been a different matter. The insurer should of made sure that AC were capable of carrying out the repair in the first place and I would assume that their engineer would of made that decission. It sounds very much like it to me, that the car is beyond them and as such should of been sent to an approved Jaguar bodyshop.

 

In anyevent, it is down to the insurers to see that the car is returned to it's pre-accident condition and if that means it has to be completed by a specialized repairer, then so be it. All the OP is obliged to pay is his excess, sit back, keep the courtesy car and let them sort it out.

 

Typical scenario of 'only finding out how good your insurer is when you need to make a claim'!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[jbscotland]

I am worried that after diagnostics they come back and say all these parts etc need replaced.

This of course would be a blatant lie given they they just happened during repair and it MUST be sensors/earth studs etc.

It is a dilemma.

 

I will just let them work at it and then speak to Elephant after they present their findings.

Edited May 7, 2011 by jbscotland

[jbscotland]

The car has been with Arnold Clark for 10 days! They have now sent it to Jaguar because the errors were not resolved by doing the repairs again. I will keep you posted.

[jbscotland]

Gareth at Quality and complaints at Elephant called me nearly 3 weeks into the cars 2nd trip to the garage and told me that Jaguar have nearly finished doing "all the diagnostics". I called Arnold Clark today and they advised that "the Abs sensors are all GONE as is the rear driveshafts".

 

I am confused as I was under the impression the car was there to be fixed not just to be told what was wrong.

 

I called Gareth at Elephant but he is off til tomorrow.

 

I know that the bodywork issues and headlight problems have all been repaired.

 

I need to express my concern that the car is still not fixed and why there are limitations being put on the repair. Have Elephant given the go-ahead for repairs or not?

Are they going to start arguing with me about "WEAR AND TEAR" or are they going to do their job and return the car to me in the condition it was before the accident?

HMMMMMmmm

[heliosuk]

I very much doubt that "all the ABS Sensors have gone", more likely just the one affected by the accident. As pointed out previously, nearly all the systems fault codes feed off of this signal. Again the drive shaft issue reported is probably nonsensical and a fault of the dealer has misinterpreted. I don't think your model has an electronicaly controlled differential unit which would suggest this fault with the drive shafts. The key here is to get the basic ABS working and then check the yaw sensor is operating correctly. Once these issues are resolved then nearly all of the problems will be resolved. You also need to ensure that they have bled through the system correctly if it was disconnected. AC will be unlikely to be in a position to do this.

 

Ultimately it is up to AC to put it right and Elephant should withold payment to them until this is the case. Don't worry about the satisfaction note either, that has no legal standing and is just a means to get payment a bit more quickly. They cannot hold the car based on this if they do fix it.

[jbscotland]

It has been at Jaguar for 12 days. It is them that have been "working through" the error codes on the dash.

I have been informed that the bodywork has been repaired and finished to a high standard. The headlight has been reinstalled too.

I was informed by Elephant that the two rear drive shafts are worn and this is causing errors on the dash which cannot be cleared until they are replaced. This will not be done under insurance as they are worn. They have founds "dozens" of error codes which have been cleared and fixed.

I am now waiting to view the report, inspect the car then test drive it.

 

I am only keeping this car for 6 months until my finance ends then I am getting rid of it.

 

Going back to BMW or Lower model X-type which I had previously, (much more reliable)

[jbscotland]

well after turning up to get my car I had enough fuel in my Jaguar to get to the petrol station if I was lucky. I had a quarter tank in it when I left it with them. The bodyshop manager refused to give me my fuel. The reason? I brought the courtesy car back on the monday after being called on the saturday to say the car was ready. They "could" have charged me for not bringing the car back within 24 hrs. This is shocking and I will be getting my money from Elephant and complaining about him.

[sailor sam]

So they syphoned the fuel out in protest? Let us know if all the issues were resolved with your car please.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[jbscotland]

The car had to go to Jaguar in Glasgow from Paisley because of the mistakes from Arnold Clark. They used up all my fuel then refused to give me it back. If I took a courtesy car from them they would expect the same fuel in it when it was returned.

 

They fixed the issues to do with the accident to a high standard finally but this customer service issue has annoyed me greatly.

I will be speaking to elephant to get my £25 of fuel back. Imagine having to ask for it!

 

The bodyshop manager was an idiot saying they were out of pocket having to send it to Jaguar- THIS WAS THEIR FAULT

[heliosuk]

Going back to BMW or Lower model X-type which I had previously, (much more reliable)

 

Take it from me........forget the X type.......try an XF..........and as regards the fuel I know there is a principle in question but for £25 you're being a bit picky respectfully.

[scaniaman]

Arnold clark out of pocket ?????????????????????

[jbscotland]

It is Arnold Clark that are being picky. They got over £2k worth of work. If I get a hire car from them it is returned with the same amount of fuel as when it is taken away. This is their rule.

This is another shocking example of the customer service from AC.

 

The XF has been plagued with electrical issues and bad build quality. Exactly the issues I am trying to get away from. Not a good idea. The XF is RWD too.

 

The X-type 2.5 Sport I owned for 3 years from 2005 til 2008 was reliable and cheap to maintain and service.

The X-type 3.0 Sport 2007 is AWD. Another reason why it makes sense.

 

AC are intolerable as Repairers and sales people. AVOID.

[heliosuk]

It is Arnold Clark that are being picky. They got over £2k worth of work. If I get a hire car from them it is returned with the same amount of fuel as when it is taken away. This is their rule.

This is another shocking example of the customer service from AC.

 

The XF has been plagued with electrical issues and bad build quality. Exactly the issues I am trying to get away from. Not a good idea. The XF is RWD too.

 

The X-type 2.5 Sport I owned for 3 years from 2005 til 2008 was reliable and cheap to maintain and service.

The X-type 3.0 Sport 2007 is AWD. Another reason why it makes sense.

 

AC are intolerable as Repairers and sales people. AVOID.

 

What makes you think the XF has been plagued with electrical issues and bad build quality? X type was a disaster for Jaguar, essentially a re-bodied Mondeo!!

 

Yes AC is perhaps the bucket shop of dealers/repair agents but don't forget, in the hire car you used the fuel and in your car the repairs needed were for your car. As I said, there is a matter of principle and perhaps they should have done but they are not obliged to. Further, if welding was involved then H&S regs require the removal of the tank in some places which does involve a draining of the tank and you never get the same back in. It disapears into a mythical black hole! Provided the car has been used responsibly and for justifiable reasons, I can't see what the gripe is.

[jbscotland]

The X-type AWD was the most reliable and best handling car I have owned. Combined with the cheap service parts it is a good car. I have owned BMW 3 and 5 series, Jaguars XJ and other prestige marques but the X-type is the best. The chassis is the only thing Ford mondeo. If you look at jaguarforum.co.uk under the XF category you will see what I mean. The XF is a RWD show pony.

The X-type is a powerful, reliable and handles well in the snow and wet unlike the rest of the Jaguar range.

 

I have rented cars many times from AC and dual control learner cars.

When you returned the car you are to return it with the same amount of fuel in it as when you took it away. I put fuel in the Astra before taking it back so it was not on the red line. This is not just good service but just good manners.

The fuel tank was not removed.

 

I had to take the car 25 miles to Paisley twice then they drove the car to Glasgow and back and used up all my fuel. This all happened because they did not carry out the repairs to a satisfactory standard. Bad manners and downright rude, especially after they got £2k of business.

[scaniaman]

Sorry JB, given your past history with Clark's, I can't understand how you didn't realise that they have no interest in customer satisfaction whatsoever. They are solely driven by profit full stop. Their branches MUST reach financial targets irrelevant of the circumstances.In my case they would not even carry out simple tests on a car well under warranty. Their GM told me in no uncertain terms that all workshop work HAD to be paid for. In this case Citroen would not pay any more, and if i insisted that tests be carried out then i had to pay.This is absolute proof that they prefer to have a disgruntled customer rather than spend a few quid on mechanics time and retain the goodwill and future business of the customer.This firm exists only on the gullibility and lack of car knowledge of the motoring public. Their staff run a mile when they realise that the customer knows more about the product than they do!!!!!!!!! I agree with your comment "AVOID"