Do I have a discrimination and a sex discrimination case ?

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi All

sorry I am having great difficulty creating my own thread too - any chance someone could create one for me? Entitled do I have a discrimination and a se x discrimination case? Apologies if this is long winded!

 

My story is a bit complicated and drawn out but running out of time. Basically I returned to a previous employer (at their request to come back to the company) all my reviews were good until my team leader left and was given a new team leader. From then on all my reviews and development reviews were controlled by him.

 

He has made numerous comments over the past years to me about being stupid, my weight, my bottom, size of my arms. Giving me different targets to my male counterparts. Not letting me do certain things at work other people in the same role were doing He has also refused to escalate things when I have disagreed with my progress review scores. (I am aware that one of my male colleagues had his review changed after he was allowed to escalate it when he was unhappy with his score - which feeds into pay rises etc) there have been occasions where he has shouted in my face swearing when we got lost on the way back from a meeting using the f word - the next day he said shall we just forget that happened. Other people who were all men were allowed to manage their own time I had to be measured on being in for certainhours despite having caring duties for my sick father.

He has been generally resentful of my interaction with some staff above him and when I have attended events he has always made a hoo har about this and said that despite it being for the greater good of the company it has not helped him (when that was not the company policy)

I have recently been made redundant and my score for the redundancy matrix was based on my performance review scores - carried out by an 'independent' member of staff - I and another person scored the two lowest scores and I was dismissed in August.

 

My team leader was also in my pool for redundancy and scored himself and I am advised he only gave 'general' feedback on me . I do not believe he should have given any!

 

What I am trying to evidence (but so far have made a total mess of) is that he not only had a discriminatory attitude towards me and did my reviews - he was involved in some way (which is now denied in the feedback process) but actual comments which do not appear in my reviews (so how could the person doing the selection know this if he had not spoken to my team leader)

 

My case in my Employment tribunal form states unfair dismissal and se x discrimination ( I was advised to include this by my solicitor at the time) - but at the case managment discussion for the tribunal the judge said he could not see where I was coming from with the se x discrimination comments and has asked me to clarify these in the coming weeksand give evidence of comparators and events.

 

I believe I have been unfairly dismissed but can anyone see where I am coming from re the se x discrimination feeding into this - as I dont think I have illustrated this at all well in my claim form

 

Cheers B:-(

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, Bunty.

 

I've started a new thread for you.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Bunty Rothsay]

Thank you Scott!

sorry for being dim

[Bunty Rothsay]

Is there any way I can email SarEL or is this not allowed?

[maroondevo52]

Is there any way I can email SarEL or is this not allowed?

 

Hi,

 

SarEL has not been on-line since the 1st March and has chosen not to accept any messages, hang in there, I'm sure you'll get some help.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[elpulpo]

I'm here. Don't worry.

[Sidewinder]

As far as I can see here, you would have to prove that you were dismissed or suffered another detriment, solely due to your being female. The fact that your Team Leader was allowed to score himself for redundancy selection may well go some way towards an unfair redundancy selection claim, but in itself would not be discriminatory. Giving different targets to male counterparts would be a start for SD, especially since the failure to meet those targets may have contributed to your selection for redundancy. The fact that the male member of staff was allowed to challenge his review is another possible link as this led to him receiving a salary enhancement where you may have been denied the opportunity to even challenge your review.

 

What matters most is not so much the suspicion that you were treated differently, but the proof that you were. You would need documents or statements which showed that these things happened because the beneficiaries were male. That is where the SD element of your claim will struggle. A claim for Unfair Dismissal on the grounds of the redundancy selection process being flawed would in theory at least be more straightforward.

[Bunty Rothsay]

Thanks Sidewinder.

Sorry my team leader did not score himself. He did all the reviews of the people in my immediate pool. These reviews were used to score people. but another twist in the tale is that there wer another set of people at my level who were scored by a different person than the person who di the redundancies at my office - to add more confusion these people were TUPE transferred in a couple o fdays after we were told of the redundancy issue. yet they were in the pool. None of them were selected for redundancy!

 

There are a lot of things which appear on the scoring (my) matrix which do not feature in the reviews but are straight from him

He has also made comment in my appeal in his statement (as I have also been thro internal appeal)which describes me in a certain way - I cannot print it as if I do and anyone is reading they would know it was me! but it derrogatory.

Re actual fact I do have a lot of examples but only rough dates and times.

 

Thanks

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi can anyone advise me how much my house insurance is likely to go up

they keep fobbing me off re making a claim and saying I have to have more than 50% chance of winning also they keep putting me through to their panel who take all my detaisl and never call back Im on my fourth call out to them now!

I have contacted my initial solicitor who I have been paying out of my own money which is costin glots to see if he will help out while I try and activate the insurance!

[tinytot]

Not sure if it helps but Ive claimed under my insurance policy; it took two weeks from submitting the claim to being told it was being accepted, and a further week before I was allocated a lawyer. I did phone every single day, but it did still take what felt like a long time when I'm considerably stressed

[Bunty Rothsay]

thanks TinyTot

Yeah they dont make things easy. I felt like they were just taking my details and not getting back to me. Which is a worry that they are trying to put you off and some policies only give you a certain amount of time from occurrence to maiking the claim - Im not sure if occurrence is the actual redundancy dismissal or when you go to/claim under the employment tribunals. Turns out the insurance company only has one firm of solicitors on their panel (great) who are 'very busy' I managed to speak to them last night and they have advised I just need to get my solicitor to write to the insurance company - so fingers crossed.

 

My friend is a solicitor (but not in employment) she has been sending me links where you can get law students to represent you under the supervision of a trained person its sort of a like a clinic you go to (I imagine a lot of you already know about this but I didnt). I know a lot of the universities do them but only up until around march - as they must be getting ready for exams after this.

[Bunty Rothsay]

Help. The respondent has sent me their draft bundle late, fully aware that I was going on holiday that week and after me chasing them for it it was sent over some weeks late -almost a month. I requested an extension of time given that the other party had hung onto their bundle for so long and also that I would be out of the country (which I had previously made all parties inc the ET aware of) this has now been refused so I am now 'late' with my draft bundle. How should I address this would I reiterate that the othe rparty was late or will this not look favourable?

 

Also the bundle does not contain anything I wanted to be honest! I would appreciate any advice on asking for particular emails etc - do I have to know of exactly what exists or can I ask for time periods and say I would like all emails between X and Y from this date to this as surely they will just not include items?

B:-(

[Bunty Rothsay]

I forgot to add - and did include it on another thread. I completed my schedule of loss but the respondent has come back saying it is incorrect - Im not sure what was wrong with it if anythign except that it was gross instead of Nett? I included all losses to date, losses going forward to carry it to 12 months (taking into account redundancy pay that had been received) and the defecit in pay from gaining employment including loss of pension, loss of healthcare etc. Injury to feelings etc

Does anyone have any idea why they consider it is incorrect? The respondent have advised they consider I would only be eligible for a fraction of this? Thanks in anticipation, B

[Bunty Rothsay]

Does any body have a model/draft SD74 questionnaire or a good one they could direct me to please?

 

In anticipation B

[jtors65]

did you activate the insurance with your insurer, mine is a nightmare

 

Hi can anyone advise me how much my house insurance is likely to go up

they keep fobbing me off re making a claim and saying I have to have more than 50% chance of winning also they keep putting me through to their panel who take all my detaisl and never call back Im on my fourth call out to them now!

I have contacted my initial solicitor who I have been paying out of my own money which is costin glots to see if he will help out while I try and activate the insurance!

[jtors65]

how are you getting on with your case, did you get the inusrance panel solictor to work for you?

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi JTor 65

No sorry - sometimes Im not very good at explaining myself and assume people know what Im talking about. No I never got as far as you in that I wasnt even allocated some money to go a certain distance with either my own or an insurance company's panel solicitor! They kept hold of my documents for numerous weeks despite me chasing for a decision and telling them that my hearing was scheduled less than a month away. Despite promises that they would chase up their solicitors and that they had been made aware how imminent the hearing was (as it was less than a month away by the time the insurance company started moving with it - I would not receive the phone call back from the insurance company to even give me so much as an update!

 

My case was bad in that I had tried to activate my house insurance back in early April and it has taken a complaint to the main insurance company to even get the household legal protection policy moving (as this sat as a side policy to the main one)

If it hadnt been for the help I had been given and advice by someone on the forum I would be 'dead in the water' now and probably have given up!

 

B

[Bunty Rothsay]

I would just like to add that on saying all this others have activated their household legal insurance in about 2 weeks with no problems I think TinyTot on the forum did. The only worry I would have with a no win no fee or a panel solicitor from an insurance company is that they may want a quick win. And may settle for the best option for themselves rather than you. But on saying that my own solicitor who was bleeding me dry offered to make a call to the respondent's solicitor and offer to settle when there had been no talk of settlement - I consider it would have made me look weak as there had been no indication that they wished to settle whatsoever and was some 5 months back - I now think he was just after quick wins and to charge me for whatever he possibly could!

[jtors65]

bunty, did your employers deny everything in the ET3, mine have and i am shocked, do you think its a good idea to try for early settlement? what about witnesses did your witnesses help you?

 

how much funding did TinyTot get and who was the insurance with

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi there

Gosh you are as green as I WAS! I stupidly thought that they would admit to some things and think oh fair cop guvnor - yes we did do this - I even went through the circus of the company appeals procedure, and also sent a without prejudice letter saying that I was willing to talk. I even thought that the appeal process would be a fair one but it wasnt. I was fortunate in that someone I worked with actually offered to come into the appeal with me and they even tried to get that person to say stuff on email to say I had said things in the meeting which I hadnt but in a very clever way ie can you just confirm that Bunty said this. they even tried the tactic that the room was only booked for a certain amount of time to cut it short all things to put me off.

 

Sadly it doesnt work as fairly as it should im afraid. The will never ever admit to anything (and I imagine they are forbiddent to). Even if you get them to a compromise agreement out of court or a COT3 form via ACAS where you reach a mutual decision they will NEVER admit to what they have done it will be their company policy not to expose the company! it will actually say they take no liability or do not admit to any of the claims in case number ......Looking back people asked me was I stupid thinking that the appeal would find in my favour as if a partner or director who was supposed to be working for the company found in my favour then his neck woudl be on the line (it now makes sense but it didnt then as I was naive). He may well have agreed with me behind closed doors - he may even have said this person has a case to the main board of the company - but it is within their interest to deny everything if they admitted stuff on the ET3 the judge would just say you have admitted it why are you wasting tax payers money by having a hearing? Dont be disheartened by this its normal and all part of the plan to shake you off! you have got to think that we are in times of recession and the number of claims they will receive will be on the increase. Employers worry too that word gets around that they have paid people off or settled so they want the message to get out there tht its very difficult!

They and their solicitors employ tactics to make you feel like you havent got a case thats why they have them! They will do all sorts of things from sending information late - when you have to have stuff reviewed and commented on such as your bundle. They will be difficult and say they havent got documents. They will dispute the relevance of documents you wish to include saying not required in the bundles and ask you why they are required so as to draw out what you are going to say. This is all to stress you out! And know your plan!

 

No I didnt have any witnesses everyone was too scared to be one - people would not even come into consultation meetings with me when being made redundant! Everyone wanted to keep their job!

 

The first thing your solicitor should do is tell you if you have a case! Have they done that as mine didnt he just took my cash!

 

I dont know how much Tiny Tot got - but he or she is on the forum somewhere in the employment bit so you could mail them as you can send emails that no one else can see and it goes to their private email but you dont see their address and they dont see yours

 

Hope this is of some help - remember its not easy you have to be strong and not take it personally (its hard I know)

B:madgrin:

[Bunty Rothsay]

I forgot to say that I would not personally ask to settle I would be as strong in your responses etc as you can as I think if they think you are running scared and want to settle then they either wont offer you anything and will come down harder on you or they will make you a very small offer as they know you are desperate and will do this at the 11th hr!

 

They will prob also look at your financial circumstances to see how much you need the money - any money ie if they knew you were in debt etc you may be desperate so they know how to pull your strings - there are some pretty nasty solicitors out there (and good ones)

 

All tactics im afraid!

[honeybee13]

I forgot to say that I would not personally ask to settle I would be as strong in your responses etc as you can as I think if they think you are running scared and want to settle then they either wont offer you anything and will come down harder on you or they will make you a very small offer as they know you are desperate and will do this at the 11th hr!

 

They will prob also look at your financial circumstances to see how much you need the money - any money ie if they knew you were in debt etc you may be desperate so they know how to pull your strings - there are some pretty nasty solicitors out there (and good ones)

 

All tactics im afraid!

 

I agree Bunty and wouldn't offer to settle as it looks like desperation. I'd say it's for the opposition to offer to settle. As you have found out the hard way and jtors is discovering, employers and their legal representatives play hard ball.

 

Jtors, I think madari and others have been trying to tell you this. From what I've seen there isn't much fair play in ET cases until you see the judge, and even then the decision might not be what you expect.

 

My best, HB

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi HoneyBee -

yes I suppose so but like with an insurance policy you dont look at it until something goes wrong just like with your contract of employment or all the other things that have gone before it you dont want to kick up a fuss or look like you are a trouble maker yet they are all tactics for giving people feedback and getting stuff on record passing remarks, sit down chats, things that appear on your review that you think oh I wont make a fuss its nothing

 

So many people do not know about their employment rights etc - I didnt know enough and only through all this am I now forewarned.

 

Madhari is a great source of knowledge I agree - he has helped me immensely

 

[jtors65]

i was offered only £1250, tinytot which insurance company did you go with, did you choose the panel solcitor?

 

Not sure if it helps but Ive claimed under my insurance policy; it took two weeks from submitting the claim to being told it was being accepted, and a further week before I was allocated a lawyer. I did phone every single day, but it did still take what felt like a long time when I'm considerably stressed

[jtors65]

honeybee13, i am living a nightmare, my whole life is a nightmare now - career and health in ruins beacuse my employer destroyed everything i had and now they are rejecting everything in my ET1, madari and others have been right, the company is playing a very very dirty game and called me a complete liar

 

I agree Bunty and wouldn't offer to settle as it looks like desperation. I'd say it's for the opposition to offer to settle. As you have found out the hard way and jtors is discovering, employers and their legal representatives play hard ball.

 

Jtors, I think madari and others have been trying to tell you this. From what I've seen there isn't much fair play in ET cases until you see the judge, and even then the decision might not be what you expect.

 

My best, HB