Been discriminated against on the grounds of disability

[Nystagmite]

Holiday pay may take a few weeks to come through. I worked over Christmas and had to wait a few weeks after leaving before holiday pay was paid.

[nutter192]

Just a quick query I have my appeal letter through and am going to state next wednesday as my choice for the appeal meeting. However, at the appeal meeting do i need to go through why I think that redundancy was not the real reason for my dismissal and then bring up the fact that the grievance was not satisfactorily dealt with and that I believe that my grievance was the reason they wanted to dismiss me?

 

Sorry for 20 questions but want to make sure I'm prepared.

[RachelMD]

Just write a statement to hand to them at the appeal, and say nothing more.

You're going through the motions, as your solicitor said.

You don't want to lay it on too thick, or they might give you your job back. And you wouldn't want that, would you?

[nutter192]

no bloody thank you to the job back! in any case it would be impossible for me to return in any case.

 

Shall I answer their questions however becuase i can record the conversation.

 

Also should I be sent the notes made by my boss at my grievance meeting for use during my appeal i.e. before the appeal for the redunandancy?

[RachelMD]

Well the purpose of the appeal is for you to appeal, not for them to cross-examine you. Which is usually the case, they highjack such meetings and give you the third degree.

Just set out what you have to say to them comprehensively in writing, hand that to them and then don't say anything more.

 

Yes, they should provide you with a copy of any notes made if you request them.

[papasmurf1cx]

Haven't you noticed yet Nutter that during the Grievance process there is usually a one way flow of information? You give all the information, usually first, they then adjourn to consult and consider and only then you get the little information and response that you had been seeking. Even then they use your information to defend themselves.

 

RachelMD gives good advice ... say as little as you can. Present the written information outlining your appeal against their decision, reitewrate any discrimination / victimisation that has gone on, and tell them that a confirmation of the decision at stage 2 will of itself be another act of discrimination and victimisation.

 

Expect to lose every stage they control but when you take it to ET that is where you hopefully will get those decision in your favour.

[nutter192]

Thanks Rachael and PapaSmurf I am going to follow the advice given. The only reason I asked about what happens during these meetings is that during the grievance meeting my manager was very condascending and contstantly interrupted me felt more like an interrogation than a proper meeting.

 

I have emailed my manager requesting that copies of notes that she made during the meeting be made available to me and the meeting for the appeal is next wednesday 22nd June, so that gives me time to get an appeal letter done.

[papasmurf1cx]

If they eat into you time to examine them and you find yourself pushed to prepare because of their delaying tactics. Play hard and ask for another date. If they refuse raise another grievance and cite discrimination / victimisation.

[nutter192]

need some advice now quite urgently. I sent an email on 15th June confirming date is fine for appeal and also asked for the notes that boss had made during the meeting. Got an email back today saying yes meeting for wednesday and oh no you can't have the notes becuase they were personal notes to help her with her memory and they were not minutes of the meeting and as such am not entitled to them!!

 

Perhaps someone can just clarify because if I am entitled to them and she does'nt provide them I would have to delay the meeting so that I can prepare properly.

[papasmurf1cx]

Put in another grievance about the notes not being given, this is victimisation as it is detriment to you and they are not being diclosed because you have put in a grievance!! They are disclosable once an ET case gets up and running. Unfortunately they will not give anything to you whilst THEY control events. The notes probably have information in them that is prejudicial to them. They will be rewritten before you ever get them.!! Dirty tricks... welcome to the dirty world of employers.

[nutter192]

Thanks papasmurf so shall I delay the meeting then till they give them and write them an email requesting a copy of the notes, however under what legislation or procuedure am I entitled to them? Just want to put something definite in the email so they know im not just being akward.

[RachelMD]

But you have a recording of the Grievance hearing, if I remember correctly, N?

I agree with Papasmurf above.

If subsequently they try to use the supposed notes from the grievance hearing, then I'd say you've an argument for arguing that they're not admissable- as grotbags said, they were personal notes for her memory only.

[nutter192]

thats correct took transcript to solicitor who advised that it was most damaging to previous boss. So I could write an email to advise her that as they are for personal memory only they are not admissable during the appeal meeting just in case she gets any ideas and just go through the appeal meeting with me writing a letter and then letting her read it.

 

THis will avoid the cross-examination or do I cancel the meeting and put in another grievance for not supplying notes and then only attend meeting once notes have been provided.

 

Also, the notes were handwritten and I can recall the layout of the notes on the page as they were somewhat scribbled everywhere.

[papasmurf1cx]

You are not entitled to them until the disclosure phase of Tribunal proceedings. Internally they can do anything they want. However as you know they exist they have to disclose them at the correct time. Just been through your old posts, as can't remember if you recorded or not, can't see anything, please let us know.

[RachelMD]

I'd just carry on and attend the appeal with a statement. Say nothing.

All their little games are just nails in their coffin.

[nutter192]

ok going to attend meeting and if they try to use the notes in any future tribunal will have copy email showing them as just notes for her personal memory.

 

Thanks for the assistance.

[papasmurf1cx]

cross over on posts........ don't worry about this too much. If you have a transcript of a recording then that is the 'best evidence' and the Tribunal will take notice of it over 'scribbled notes' !! Personally I would put the grievance in to pile on the misery for them and yet another act of discrimination. They will get sick of it eventually.

[nutter192]

shall I put the grievance at the end of the appeal letter or shall i do a seperate letter detailing this?

[papasmurf1cx]

don't think it really matters. separate letter is a cleaner way though.

[nutter192]

one final question if i may just about to type appeal letter do i mention the recording of the conversation becuase i think that she will be suspicious if i can remember so much of the meeting?

 

Opinions welcomed

[RachelMD]

No. So what if she's suspicious? What's she going to do?

Making a recording of someone without their knowledge or permission is a contentious area, arguably unlawful.

Keep that to your self.

Later, if it should go to ET and there's a conflict of evidence, it might be useful- the attitude of the ET is likely to be that it's more concerned with getting to the truth of a matter than the fact that a recording is unlawful.

[RachelMD]

Keep your appeal letter to the point, BTW. Cover everything, but be concise.

[papasmurf1cx]

I agree. Also, if there is a huge difference in the yet to be disclosed 'private note' you will be able to spot it big time. Always a great negotiating tool when it comes to the end game. Imagine that they go into court take an oath and start lying and you can prove they are lying. Give them an incentive to settle on your terms.

[nutter192]

sound advice thank you for the input. Will type the letter now and post up for a final check if everyone does'nt mind?

[nutter192]

Would someone mind just casting their eye over this letter and let me know what they think? Alterations welcomed.

Dear Nasty Boss

I wish to appeal against your decision to make me redundant from your organisation as set out in your letter of 27 May 2011.

With regards to the actual situation of redundancy I must stress the following points; there was no consultation regarding your decision to make me redundant, this means my dismissal for redundancy was unfair even if the redundancy was genuine. Equally as the only person being made redundant in your organisation this suggests that the work that I do may still be needed and therefore the redundancy is not genuine.

Also, I had raised a grievance against you on the basis of disability discrimination resulting in what I believe to be a redundancy being used as a smokescreen to conceal the genuine reason for dismissal which was in fact the matter of me raising a grievance together with sending a ‘Discrimination and Other Prohibited Conduct’ questions and answer form and you failing to address concerns raised in relation to my disability.

I must also state the lack of response to my grievance including failure in your letter to me of 27th May to address directly all the concerns raised by me during the grievance meeting. In fact the only point of the grievances raised that you have responded to are the issues of the amplifier that would have been put onto my telephone to assist me in clearly hearing people over the phone. Indeed your explanation for not putting an amplifier on the telephone is dubious at best. I also recall during the grievance meeting that you stated that an amplifier would be too expensive and that you are only a small office. For your information I enclose copies of amplifiers which can be easily attached to telephones and the prices you can be expected to pay for these items. Please note that there is a portable amplifier which slips over the ear piece of the telephone and as such can be carried round and fixed to any phone, this negates the point in your appeal letter about having to fix an amplifier to every phone in the office.

With regards to the points covered in the questionnaire sent to you detailing the incidents in the grievance meeting, there was no mention of the comments made during the grievance meeting regarding the acts of discrimination in your letter of redundancy which was also used to detail your decision on the grievance except to state that amplifiers would be too awkward for other members of staff and cost prohibitive for a small office.

In addition, in my letter of 5th April 2011, I raised a further grievance regarding acts of victimisation which had been directed against me by other members of staff who knew about my grievance. These acts of victimisation were not discussed at the meeting except in the case of you telling ***** (her sister) about the grievance breaching the Data Protection Act 1998 by releasing information from a written document which should have been kept confidential. This also resulted in a breach of implied duty of mutual trust and confidence which is the key to any employment relationship.

I therefore am of the opinion that my redundancy was not a genuine redundancy and was in fact unfair due to a lack of consultation, non-adherence to procedure and the fact that I raised a grievance shortly before the redundancy took place detailing discrimination under the Equality Act.

I look forward to hearing from you with your decision regarding my redundancy in due course.

Yours sincerely

Nutter192