Tuition Fees, Overpayment and Admin Fees

[Alimus]

Hi there,

 

I've recently finished paying off a tuition fee debt of £1,125, which I was paying off at £20 a month by standing order. Due to some bad record keeping by myself however, I have managed to overpay by £140.

 

As such I rang the University's Credit Control department to ask for my money back. However now they are telling me that there are charges totalling £95 to be applied also (£55 for the use of a debt collection agency, and £40 admin for breach of their payment terms). These charges were never mentioned when the original payment plan was set up, and unfortunately I dont have any written records left as it was a long time ago.

 

Are these charges enforcable, and under what financial regulation legislation do tuition fees fall under if any?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Alimus
Addtional Info

[rebel11]

Hi ali

Welcome to CAG

The guys will advise as soon as they are available. Thread moved.

[harrassed senior]

You could always send them a SAR which should throw up the Agreement and its Terms.

[Alimus]

From University:-

 

Thanks for calling me today regarding settlement of tuition fee debt for academic year 2003-04 - Undergraduate fees BSc Hons Human Genetics (Full time)

 

You have now settled the debt in full and have overpaid the debt per our invoice ***** dated 7 November 2003 for £1125.00

 

We have incurred collection charges and costs in respect of your debt , our debt recovery agents CF Services, contacted you in 2005-2006 to arrange settlement. You are also reminded that there is an administrative charge levied for late settlement of fees, in line with University regulations £40.00. These combined fees total £95.00 , this has been deducted from your overpayment

 

I will be pleased to arrange a refund of the balance of your overpayment (cr£45.00) to you

 

 

 

From Me:-

 

As these fees were not mentioned to me at the time of the repayment agreement, or at any time since then, I would not expect them to be levied.

 

The repayment agreement I made was to repay the outstanding sum of £1,125 in monthly payments of £20. Since this agreement was made I have made every payment on time and in full, as such I hold my half of the agreement fulfilled, and expect you to fulfill yours in respect to refunding the overpayment of £100.

 

 

From Me,

 

Could you also please confirm to me the final balance of the account, as it seems the actual overpayment may be £140?

 

 

 

From University:-

 

Thanks – charges and costs incurred in collection of this debt are payable; we have deducted this from your overpayment – a refund will be done for £45.00

 

This is not negotiable

 

 

From Me

 

Further to my last email could you please confirm the final balance of the account and the total overpayment.

 

As these charges did not form part of the original repayment contract, they fall under the OFT guidelines on unfair practice,and as such would not in fact be payable. I will however seek legal advice on the matter and get back to you in due course.

 

 

 

From University

 

The balance is £45.00 in your favour.

 

I have explained the charges made – given that we have been very patient and understanding, we have in the course of management of the debnt incurred costs and charges – you were also in breach of the payment criteria and regulations of the University .

 

Our agents contacted you and a payment plan was agreed. Our charges are not excessive , indeed you have had several years to discharge the debt – I am sure any loan arrangement with a bank would charge you far greater charges than £95.00

 

We will refund the £45.00 and look forward to receiving contact from your legal advisor.

 

 

From University:-

 

You may wish to refer to our Web page for Tuition fee Regulations applicable to students and terms concerning fees

 

nottingham.ac.uk/

planning/fees/

2004-05/fees2004-05.htm

 

Your attention is drawn to Section A - 8.13 fee payment arrangements , and also Section C item 7 NON payment – recovery of charges

 

As you registered , you were therefore bound by these regulations, :in addition we also incurred additional costs from CF Services totalling £60.00

 

 

From Me:-

 

As I attended from 03-04 I would not expect these regulations to apply.

 

If you have a copy of the 03-04 regulations please feel free to forward them to me, and I will forward them on to my legal advisor for comment.

 

As before I will get back to you upon receiving legal advice.

 

 

 

From University

 

I do not have the 2003-04 regulations as they are too old. The same regulations apply however.

 

Thanks for the comments so far guys, with regards to the SAR, given the last response I've had from them im not sure how much info that would throw up.

 

If anyone has any knowledge regarding any legislation i could refer to to back me up it would be great, despite much searching i cant seem to find any specific info regarding who is supposed to regulate these kind of transactions, and what the guidelines are.

 

The tricky part is that I cant just refuse to pay as they already have my money so I need something concrete to make them give it back

[ScarletPimpernel]

Looking at the terms and conditions, and assuming they are the same as for previous years, it seems to me that the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection (which the University of Nottingham, as the holder of consumer credit licence 0548719, is obliged to comply with), applies.

 

You may like to refer the university to the following sections of the guidance:

 

1.7 This guidance applies to all consumer credit licence holders and applicants.

Charging for debt collection

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual or other legal provision

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there is no contractual provision

c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

 

I was not able to see, on the university website, any indication of the amount of any charges payable in default, and nor have the university provided you with any evidence that the charges are based on actual and necessary costs - just saying 'admin fee' or 'that's what the gang we passed the debt to charged us' ain't enough.

 

In my view, you are liable for the administration fee, provided the university can demonstrate that it's their actual and necessary costs, but you are not liable for the DCA charge.

 

If they still refuse to refund the full amount, it may be that you can raise the issue with someone senior at the university who may recognise that it is inappropriate for a university to mislead its students and breach the terms of its consumer credit licence. Otherwise, the only option you really have is to take them to the Small Claims Court.

 

To add some salt, why not submit a FOI request to ask how many other students they have unfairly charged in this way?

[Alimus]

Thats fantastic SP, exactly what I was after many thanks. Will submit the FOI as soon as I get an answer on this.

 

Was wondering who to send the info on to though to make sure they pay everyone back? Maybe NUS magazine if there is such a thing? Any suggestions?

 

From Me

 

As holder of Consumer Credit License 0548719, you are bound by the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection. As such if I could refer you to the following sections:

 

1.7 This guidance applies to all consumer credit licence holders and applicants

 

Charging for debt collection

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual or other legal provision

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there is no contractual provision

c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

 

Given that you have been unable to provide a copy of the applicable terms and conditions for the year in which I attended, the charges are not enforcable under the terms of 2.10 a).

 

If you are able to produce a copy of the terms and conditions for the appropriate academic year (and they are indeed the same as those for 04-05), the charge of £55 for debt recovery would not be enforceable under the terms of 2.10 c). In addition to this the administration fee would only be payable if you are able to demonstrate that these are actual and neccessary costs, under the terms of 2.10 d).

 

As such I request that you please refund the full overpayment of £140 immediately.

 

 

From University

 

As a student that registered with the University you were bound by our regulations and accepted these at registration – which include payment of fees , this clearly did not happen.

I have explained that University regulations states that we are able to claim the cost of recovery charges ( non payment in default) . Again I remind you of our regulations :-

 

 

1. The University reserves the right to take reasonable steps to recover all fees and other sums due and any fees, charges or legal costs incurred by any recovery action taken to recover such fees and other sums.

We have managed your debt for SEVEN YEARS , and our charges are fair and reasonable. I have also explained that we also incurred charges as we instructed our recovery agents CF Services to contact you. We are able to demonstrate that these are actual and necessary costs

 

I suggest that you seek legal advice, given that you were a debtor and that you failed to meet the requirement to pay fees in a timely manner. A refund for £45.00 only will be made.

The University finance department have been very fair and understanding, and charges made are reasonable and fair. If you seek proper legal advice then please ask your legal representative to write to me directly

 

 

 

From Me

 

Your patronising tone is not appreciated, this aside however I fail to see how any of the below mitigates the fact that you are in breach of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collection.

 

While you have explained that the university regulations allow you to charge the fees you have not provided a copy of the relevant regulations for my academic year and as such any argument based on these regulations is entirely without basis.

 

Again I ask that you please refund the entire overpayment of £140.

 

 

 

From University:-

 

I suggest that you contact a solicitor to resolve the matter, as we cannot agree to resolve this. Be assured I will have a copy of the relevant regulations when required to provide a copy

 

 

 

From Me:-

 

If you are able to procure a copy of the relevant regulations I ask that you forward me a copy.

 

 

 

From University:-

 

I will provide a copy to your lawyer ONLY

 

 

 

 

 

Are they able to do this? Seems like very bad practice to me.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Whoever you are dealing with at the university is bulsh1tting you. You are under no obligation to take advice from a solicitor, and the university has no authority to insist you do so.

 

Email tennis can go on for ages and is rarely productive.

 

What level is the person at the uni who's dealing with this? The tone of their correspondence suggests they are somewhat junior, because they do not appear to understand that they have no authority to vary the terms of their consumer credit licence - which are, of course, in place to protect consumers. It matters not a jot how long they've managed the debt - they always had a legal remedy and chose not to use it. They can't bend the rules because they are poor losers.

 

Alternatively, you could go straight for a Letter Before Action (we can help draft a suitable one) - but I'd only advise you to do this if you intend to follow through and take them to court. You could lose - no-one can predict the outcome of the judge lottery, and you may get one who sides with them. On the other hand, the uni may feel that the potential costs and bad publicity aren't worth fighting over, and settle.

 

If you are dealing with someone junior, then I suspect that a LBA will cause some sphincter-twitch because they will almost certainly have to pass it higher up the chain.

 

You could potentially lose the additional refund and the cost of the claim - certainly under £100. Only you can decide.

[Alimus]

Thanks again SP, the guy im dealing with is the credit control manager seems to be the guy in charge of the dept according to their website, been doing some more emailing this morning:-

 

From University:-

 

In order to assist you to understand our FULL regulations for 2003-04 , see attached 2003-04 scanned copy

 

(ive attached a copy at docs.google.com/viewer?

a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1762N6NJiOkEUFFLQEQaV4fQFsR4i-l-kbP5f3ujKB6JKYKCiQJWocXCgzxhj&hl=en_GB)

 

From University:

 

Please provide details of your current address so that a cheque refund can be sent to you

 

From Me:-

 

Many thanks for the copy of the regulations. Despite your previous assertation however the terms are not in fact the same as the terms for 04-05. Specifically Section C 7:-

 

03-04:

7. The University reserves the right to take reasonable steps to recover all fees and other sums due.

 

04-05:

7. The University reserves the right to take reasonable steps to recover all fees and other sums due and any fees, charges or legal costs incurred by any recovery action taken to recover such fees and other sums.

Given that this was the section previously quoted to justify the claim for the £55 claimed for debt recovery, this is not in fact payable under the terms for 03-04.

 

I accept that the administration fee of £40 will be payable. With this in mind will you please refund the overpayment of £100.

 

In addition to this as I left the University in February of 2004, please could you also look to refund the appropriate pro-rata fee as per Section A 9.1:

 

Students withdrawing during a session will be liable for the appropriate pro-rata fee for any modules wholly or partially studied (or any months wholly or partially studied in the case of research students).

 

From University:-

 

You failed to read regulations properly

 

03-04:

7. The University reserves the right to take reasonable steps to recover all fees and other sums due.

This covers charges incurred for debt recovery procedures – in addition to the late payment charge . I do not intend to keep exchanging emails on this subject – the matter is closed and is NOT negotiable.

 

From Me:-

 

I did not fail to read the regulations properly, the regulations state that the University may take reasonable steps to recover sums due, this is not a due sum because there is no clause within the regulations that permit the University to pass on recovery costs. Presumably this is why the terms were revised for the following year.

 

If you do not intend to keep exchanging emails please could you refer me to your superior so that I may take up the matter with them.

 

Also given that I left the University in February 2003, could you please look to refund the appropriate pro-rata fee as per Section A 9.1, in addition to the £100 overpayment.

 

 

As it stands id be happy to take them to court, given that their own terms and conditions state they cant charge me. Also as they lied to me when i first started paying back the debt that i would have to pay the full years tuition despite dropping out in feb, so theres prob another £500ish that they owe me.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I think the time has come to step things up a little.

 

I suggest that you start to draft a Letter Before Action - it should be brief and succinct, setting out what they owe you and why (don't get sidetracked), and give them 14 days to pay, or you will take them to court.

 

In the meantime, send a final email to the credit control clown along these lines:

 

Thank you for your email dated (date/time of last email), the content of which is noted. I am sorry that you are unwilling to comply with your obligations in this matter, and must advise you that I am not prepared to enter into any further communication by email. I will shortly be sending the University a Letter Before Action as a preliminary to issuing a claim in the County Court.

 

I will also be making a formal complaint to the Office of Fair Trading about your breaches of its Guidance on Debt Collection, compliance with which is mandatory for holders of a Consumer Credit Licence. I understand that the OFT considers that breaching the Guidance calls into question an organisation's fitness to hold a licence. I would also like to make a formal complaint to the University, and would be grateful if you would send me, by post, a copy of the complaint procedure.

 

 

If he sends any more emails, keep them, but don't reply.

[Alimus]

As ever guys thanks for the comments, have made some more progress this afternoon.

 

From University (Credit Control):-

 

Please contact in writing - [personal details removed]

 

As I'd had no response from them regarding the pro-rata refund of the tuition fees themselves, I thought I'd do a little digging to find out exactly how much I would be owed back through another department. After a quick phone call to the Student Registry I was told that I should only have paid £562.50 in tuition fees, not the £1,125 I have repaid. The guy I spoke to was even kind enough to copy me in on this email he sent to the Finance Dept.

 

From University (Student Registry to Finance Dept):-

 

I have just had Alimus on the phone advising that after looking at the regulations he feels he is due a refund. Looking at his record and documentation i think he is due a fee refund for the second semester. I can see he has been making payments over the number of years so i’m not sure why this wasn’t informed to the finance office back in 2004. But are we able to get him any sort of refund towards this half fee he shouldn’t have been charged?

 

So what do u guys think I should do from here, do you think a letter before action is really necessary?

 

I had considered waiting for a response from Finance regarding the £562.50, and write to the Director of Operations with my complaint and all the emails etc see what he has to say about it?

Edited March 8, 2011 by ScarletPimpernel
Remove identifying details

[ScarletPimpernel]

Why are you so keen to keep giving them chances? Have they not demonstrated their incompetence and poor business practices enough?

 

I think the email from the Registry to Finance strengthens your case, and demonstrates that the credit controller has been stringing you along.

 

So, no more Mr Nice Guy. Stop the emails already!

 

Send a Letter Before Action setting out your claim - a refund of everything you overpaid, including the amounts the Credit Controller deducted for collection fees. Make clear that they have 14 days to refund in full, or you will issue a claim in the County Court for the amount owed, plus statutory interest at 8%, plus costs. Mention that you will also be complaining to the OFT about their breaches of their licence terms. Send it Recorded Delivery to the University's main address - not to the individual named in their email - a little wider publicity may cause him embarrassment and them to settle. How they manage mail internally is a matter for them.

[Alimus]

Haha! Yeah maybe I am a little soft, I suppose the main reason I want to hear back from the Finance guys is because I want it confirming that they do owe the money and concrete proof before I go in all guns blazing

 

As you said I'm done talking with the credit control dept the next thing they receive unless they refund me will be a LBA, on the other hand while the other departments are being co-operative I'll play along until I have all the ammunition I may require.

 

Once I have all that I can fire out the LBA, and FOI requests to see how many others have been have been a) unfairly charged and b) overcharged on tuition fees, and also put in my complaints to the OFT and the University complaints dept.

 

I know I've said it many times but once more thanks for your help SP

[sir_gilmour]

Hi

Welcome to The Consumer Action Group.

 

 

I am just letting you know that as you haven't had any replies to your post yet, it might be better if you post your message again in an appropriate sub-forum. You will get lots of help there.

 

Also take some time to read around the forum and get used to the layout. It is a big forum and takes a lot of getting used to.

 

 

Once you start to find your way, you will soon realise that it is fairly easy to get round and to get the help you need.

 

It can be bit confusing at first.