Gross Misconduct Hearing next Tuesday

[daz1uk]

Hi all, I'm wondering if somebody can give me some advice on how to approach my coming gross misconduct meeting.

 

I have recently been suspended from work and have just received a letter stating:

 

1) That I accessed personal websites

 

My response to this is that my manager has advised us to keep personal internet usage to a minimum, I have never been instructed that personal internet usage is not allowed at all.

 

2) I spent 3hours on personal websites which is considered an unreasonable amount of time.

 

My response to this is that there logs are innacurate, they have a log showing sites visited such as youtube, facebook, twitter etc. These sites are blocked my the company web filter so not possible. Also I tended to arrive at work early and read the news on the internet which I would then minimise and continue reading at quiet periods during my day (which at before this point was acceptable to my manager) so the time they have recorded is innacurate in terms of actual disruption to work as they are monnitoring background activity?

 

3) They are saying that I attempted to cover up my internet activity by "falsifying" log sheets by calling fax numbers instead of business numbers. (I work in a sales office and have a target of 30 calls per day).

 

I cant deny phoning fax numbers, however I certainly do deny attempting to falsify records, I was well aware that this activity would show up on the call log and I have not made any attempt to alter nor even access the company call logs. Also I am thinking of arguing that I was simply calling numbers that I had acquired from a website in order to try and gain new business and it is not my fault that the phone numbers were innacurate??

 

It is number 3 that they are saying is gross misconduct.

 

They have also sent me a sheet on which states examples of Gross Misconduct which includes Falsification of records (this is what they are having me on). Yet under the misconduct section it states unauthorised use of the company phone system which I believe is more applicable to this situation?

 

Surely they haven't got a leg to stand on?

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

 

I think you need to tell us more if you want us to help you, please.

 

1. What access did you have to personal websites and how long did you spend on them per day?

 

2. If the sites are blocked, how could they have a log that showed you accessed them each day? I'm confused by this.

 

3. How many fax numbers did you phone each day?

 

If you can give us more details, it will help us to help you.

 

HB

[natalie]

1 and 2 - What does it say with regards to personal use of the internet in your employees handbook?

 

If it says keeping use to a minimum does it stipulate what would be considered unreasonable?

 

3 Did you make your target number of calls other than these numbers they are disputing?

 

Where do you normally source your numbers from?

 

Where did you get these numbers from?

[daz1uk]

Hi, Thanks for you responses

 

In answer to your questions:

 

I haven't been given an employees handbook, one miraculously appeared next to the managers desk the day I was suspended.

 

There is no stipulation on internet usage, to my knowledge it is managers discression.

 

No on two occasions I did not hit my target calls without these fax numbers (these are the only two occasions with this issue), numbers are sourced from the internet for new business. Calls are also made to account holders, details on company software.

 

We have reasonably unrestricted access to the internet apart from sites such as gaming, facebook and social sites and no access to video sources i.e. youtube. I would say my average personal use is generally very low apart from occasionally checking my bank account and google news.

 

I believe the log is showing links within viewed web pages, hence blocked sites showing on the log.

 

The first day in question 5 calls to fax machines and the second day in question about 16.

 

I think the internet usage is irrelevant as they are saying that this is simply misconduct. The issue is that they are trying to say that I have committed gross misconduct by falsifying reports (the call logs) by ringing fax numbers to increase my call level. But I dont see how my actions can be considered as falsifying the logs. As far as I am concerned the call logs are intact and represent true values and information?

[honeybee13]

Hello again Daz. Listen, I'm a technophobe I admit, but in terms of employment law, your arguments aren't convincing me at the moment. I don't know what skills the person you will be arguing with has, but if the others as well as myself here can't follow your argument, then maybe the person hearing the appeal won't.

 

Does the internet show fax numbers separately from landline numbers? I'm not sure how you access information for phone numbers, but looking on websites myself, it's fairly obvious which is a fax number.

 

Are there any positives you can put about what you do and what you did on the days in question please?

 

HB

[helencb]

I work in a salesy environment myself.

 

Are the 30 calls target a genuine 30 calls i.e. 30 calls connected to some target customer? Otherwise it would seem an odd measure. But it depends on what your role is, your seniority, within what industry, complexity of what you are selling, and organisation structure. 30 genuine quality calls sounding high to me, representing 4 quality calls per hour or so for FTE. Not one which could be achieved by individual web research, but equally if data is provided to you , then the volume of fax numbers is potentially low if you are working quickly through a list.

 

If you are certain that your time on internet is minimal for personal use, then confessing up might alleviate that allegation. But given the allegation, then a lot depends on the source of the leads in the first place

[daz1uk]

Hi,

 

First of all I'd like to say thank you to all of you for trying to help me with this.

 

I fully intend to own up to both using the internet and ringing fax numbers.

 

The main issue is that my company are trying to intimate that calling fax numbers is an attempt to falsify the call log report which amounts to Gross Misconduct. In my personal view this would amount to misuse of the phone system which is misconduct and is not a sackable offence. The reason I believe that this is not falsifying the call log report is that the call log clearly shows my activity hence them seeing that fax numbers have been called. No attempt has been made to hide activity or alter the call log.

 

I'm wondering if somebody could just clarify this one point for me please.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Forgive me if I've missed something, but I [and maybe others] am confused about how you came to call so many fax numbers. Did you call hundreds of non fax phone numbers to offset this?

 

It might help us to advise you if you post the internet and phone policy of your company on the forum.

 

HB

[Atlas01]

Just looking at the last post you made Daz a couple of things concern me

 

You now appear to be ready to own up to calling fax numbers, if you have done this to meet a quota intentionally (there's nobody at the other end which you knew about in advance who would tell you where to go if your marketing is what i assume it to be) then you have certainly breached your company policy and the key point is intentionally!

 

What your personal view on the level of sanction (gross or just misconduct) matters not a jot, it's what your company's disciplinary panel feel it warrants and if they feel it's gross they will dismiss you. (unless your policy clearly states it's misconduct and you'll be lucky if it does)

 

If you have done the act intentionally i would concentrate more on mitigation and the times you didn't ring fax numbers and performed your job as per your contract to the times you did e.g can you argue it was only 2 times in 100 workdays.

 

Even then this line is not safe but true and if your company does a proper investigation and it's clear to them it's an obvious attempt to dodge work you would not only be considered to be breaching the policy but also lying.

 

The employer only needs to believe this was an intentional act "on the balance of probability" to take action

 

They should however also take into account your previous work history, lack of warnings (i hope) remorse and acceptance of the events and such before dismissing you. (I've seen this part ignored too many times tbh though)

 

How long have you actually been spending on the internet on non business related "surfing", was it 3hrs in one day, or over a period

 

I've got to say from what you have put it appears you have been slightly more slothlike in the performance of your duties than your employer would expect and you know it. I see your issue as more damage limitation than "I have done nothing wrong"

 

Can you give us more info on how long and what periods honestly, there may be valid points like the fact server logs show you many things which untrained managers may see as you sitting there browsing a site as you stated, It could be a window left open, a hyperlink to another site, in essence they may see much more time taken than actually has been.

 

Sometimes you simply have to hold your hands up, the question is how high