Creation finance PPI reclaim advice needed please

[lhmcr1]

Sorry to bump this, but does anyone have any ideas of what I could put on the FOS form to give me more of a chance of success?

[dj1971]

Just put the truth Lmcr, there is nothing to be gained by lying or even exaggerating, it will all come out in the wash at the end anyway.

 

Remember to enclose copies of all correspondence between yourself and creation.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

[lhmcr1]

I have sent the FOS complaint form to the FOS.

I just put in what happened at the sale DJ, as you said, no point in lying, the fact is I was told it was free and there was no mention of the single policy with interest after a year bit.

I do, unfortunately, have very little confidence in the FOS however, as I have said before.

I can just see Creation hiding behind it's non-advised argument and I'll get some adjudicator who agrees with them, it's made clear in the T&C's blah blah blah....It is now just a waiting game.

[dj1971]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you lhmcr.

 

DJ

[lhmcr1]

I have now received a questionnaire from the FOS regarding the Creation PPI, has anyone else received one of these?

[dx100uk]

yep std practice

 

fill it out as best you can

 

dx

[lhmcr1]

Today I received a letter from the FOS saying that the adjudicator has upheld my complaint against Creation,

recommending that they should put me back into the position I would have been in had I not taken out the PPI plus £200 for stress and inconvenience.

 

Unfortunately Creation have disagreed with the adjudicators decision and now it must be forwarded onto the Ombudsman.

 

Does the Ombudsmen usually agree with the adjudicators decision and if the Ombudsman does rule in my favour and again uphold my compliant,

must Creation pay up or can they refuse or ask to take it further?

[dirkuberpower]

If the ombudsman rule in your favour they will have to pay up. They usually agree with the adjudicators decision.

[dx100uk]

yep

 

ombs has the same power as a court

 

dx

[lhmcr1]

If the ombudsman rule in your favour they will have to pay up. They usually agree with the adjudicators decision.

I really hope they do.

And if they do and they say Creation must put me in a position that I hadn't took out the PPI, how will I know if they have paid me the correct amount with interest added in etc...

[dj1971]

If and when you get the figures, post them on the forum and someone will have a look over them for you, make sure you are not being ripped off again.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

[lhmcr1]

If and when you get the figures, post them on the forum and someone will have a look over them for you, make sure you are not being ripped off again.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

 

Yes, I am certainly hoping the Ombudsman will agree with the adjudicator, I will certainly post figures as soon as I get them.

As I said, the adjudicator recommended that Creation put me into the position I was in before the PPI and £200 for stress and inconvenience.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks

[lhmcr1]

An update to the post.

I contacted Creation after the high court ruling to see if they would pay up instead of having to wait for the ombudsman's decision, they refused and chose to let the case drag on.

[lhmcr1]

I have now received a provisional decision from the Ombudsman regarding the above.

 

They have decided to reach a "conclusion that differs substantially from the adjudicator's original view on this complaint"

 

They say that they are satisfied with the literature that Creation issued was not providing me with advice

and that my details of the sale do not show that I was recieving advice, although I was

"strongly reccomended to take out the policy because it was free".

 

I also , as stated, was not told that the policy would attract interest if not paid.

 

The Ombudsman says he is not in a position to know what the salesperson said to me that it was possible

that I was told the policy was only free for twelve months, I was not.

 

The Ombudsman goes on to say he acknowledges that it is possible that I might have been so persuaded

by a misleading verbal explanation I received, but that does not seem the case in light of evidence he has reviewed. (????)

 

The Ombudsman notes that I said that the salesman was not experienced but also mentions the fact that

I was one month into new employment and that I might reasonably take out the policy because:

It would not cost me anything if I had the funds to pay at the end of the interest free period

and that I had the benefit of life cover during the time and the peace of mind the loan would be protected in the future.

 

If I would have found myself out of work due to accident, sickness or unemployment

I might not have had the funds to settle the agreement despite my best intentions

and I might also have found it difficult to make monthly repayments.

 

If my financial circumstances changed that I could not pay off within the first twelve months

I would be in a less likely position to settle early at all.

 

Also that the documentation states that I would not receive a pro-rata payment if I settled the loan at a later date.

 

The Ombudsman states that he accepts the limitations of the policy might not have been clear to me if my attention was not drawn to them

he cannot safely conclude that I would not have taken the policy out and that I might find the policy useful.

 

So the Ombudsman has provisionally rejected my case and I now have a month to put forward any further points

and/or to agree or disagree with the decision.

 

Does anyone here have any thoughts on the provisional decision?

[lhmcr1]

Anyone with any thoughts?

[ims21]

Hi

 

This is going to take a well crafted letter back to them. It will need to be professional and firm and needs to go into detail on countering the ombudsman's reasoning.

 

You will need to compare the initial findings of the adjudicator (on an individual basis) with those reached by the ombudsman and question the differing opinion and re-asserting your position on each of the points.

 

I would have a good read of the PDFs on the fos website in connection with the cases where the ombudsman has upheld a complaint and see if some of the reasoning can be used in your arguments.

 

Also re-visit the full list of reasons for mis-selling and make sure you have included all relevant reasons.

 

Prepare a draft of your letter and re-read it a couple of times so that you are basically happy with it. Then leave it overnight and review it again the next day. Make any changes you feel appropriate. When you are happy with your draft you can post it up here for review.

 

Don't forget, this is a provisional decision...not a final one so the door is still open to persuade the Ombudsman in your favour.

 

If all else fails, do remember that the court route is still open to you should the Ombudsman still not uphold your complaint.

 

HTH

 

ims

[lhmcr1]

This is pretty much what I was thinking ims21, the Ombudsman seems to think that I would have benefitted from the policy anyway, and seems to be on the salesmans side regarding the sale.

I know how the conversation went, he definately said it was free and made no attempt to point out what happens after twelve months regagrding extra interest nor did he ask about any existing cover or employee benefits.

I am surprised that the Ombudsman reached a completely different verdict to the adjudicator.

It looks as thoug I will have to say that I can prove that I have other things that can cover me if needed.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Go through your sales conversation in your mind.

 

Picture it...add colours to it....make it vivid....make it real.

 

You will be surprised at how much you can remember.

 

In your letter find a way of conveying that visual reality to the other party so it becomes real to them.

 

couple that with the notes in my previous post and you should be on your way.

 

Remember....alll you can do is all you can do and all you can do is enough.

 

ims

[lhmcr1]

This is my provsional letter that I intend to send to the Ombudsman, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts:

 

 

I refer to the letter dated 20th October 2011 regarding the Ombudsman’s provisional decision.

 

I would like to add the following in response to the Ombudsman’s points in the decision letter.

 

First of all, the overarching question regarding whether Creation gave me clear information.

As I pointed out in my original complaint and on the questionnaire I felt that the information given to me was not clear because I not once was told or was my attention drawn to the fact that the policy was a single premium policy and that it would attract interest if it was not settled after the twelve month period, my attention was drawn to the cost if settled, as is clearly circled on the document, so why not continue to explain the PPI details?

Also, as case studies show regarding upheld complaints on the FOS’s own website regarding information given at the point of sale. I can confirm that no questions were asked about my circumstances with regards to work benefits or existing insurance held by me, of which I have life insurance and full pay for six months and half pay for twelve months if I am off work, I also have family that could help if needed. This is regarded as good practice even for non-advised sales.

I will again state that on more than one occasion the only fact I was told about the policy on more than one occasion was that it was free and that I might as well have it. I would interpret that as a recommendation, I would also ask was this a commission based sale for the salesman?

With regards to this I would say it is clear that the salesman, on behalf of Creation, did not put me in a position where I could make an informed choice or take adequate steps to ensure that the policy suited my needs, but sated more than once that I may as well take the policy because it’s free.

 

I will again point out with regards to my personal circumstances that I have both now and in the past on financial products such as credit cards and loans which I have taken out, never took out payment protection insurance as I already have adequate cover through work and personal policies.

 

The Ombudsman states that he is not in a position to know what I was told by the salesman, I can certainly confirm that I was only told that the policy was free with no further explanation about it, this can be confirmed by my wife who was with me at the time of the sale. With regards to the point that I took out the policy because I intended to pay it off early although of course I would have liked to, this was certainly not the case as I had no way of knowing if I would be paying the policy off before the offer period expiry.

A personal example of this would be a nine month interest free credit card that I have taken out, where I also could have paid off the balance within the offer period to avoid interest, even with these products I do not take out the PPI policy because as previously stated, I am adequately covered.

 

With regards to that I was given the documents and demands and needs statements, I will point out that my attention was not drawn to any points about the insurance on any of these, something that should have pointed out, even in a non-advised sale, with me and is regarded as good industry practice.

 

I draw attention also to the Ombudsman’s reasons why I may have taken out the policy.

I already had and still do have life cover provided by a personal policy and also as a work related benefit so the loan would have been protected by these. As stated I was not asked anything about this.

If I would have found myself off work due to accident or sickness I would be covered again by work related benefits as described previously. All work related benefits were, and still are, available to me from the first day of my employment with Northern Rail. If I found myself unemployed I would use my previous experience in order to find employment and I could also ask my family if the need arose. Again I will point out that I was not asked my circumstances regarding this.

 

I can also certainly safely conclude that if I was told or my attention drawn to the fact that this was a single premium PPI policy that would attract interest if I did not pay within the special offer period I would certainly not have taken out this policy.

 

I would also again draw attention to the fact that the salesman stating that “the policy is free, you may as well have it” would be a recommendation, even though Creation state that this was a non-advised policy.

 

So, I would like to say that if this was a non –advised policy why did the salesman say this and did the salesman get commission for PPI sales?

 

I also draw attention to the adjudicator’s decision to uphold my complaint.

The adjudicator states he does not think the significance of the cancellation terms were made sufficiently clear to me and also after considering my account agrees that I would not have taken out the policy if I was fully informed.

 

I will also point out that due to my circumstances at the time that is that I had just started a new job in Manchester that I was undergoing training for and that I would be spending considerable time away from my family and also that we required this washing machine as a replacement as our existing one had broken down, obviously my thoughts were on a number of things at the time and an experienced financial salesman would haverecognised this and explained the policy and written documentation in more detail than was given and not just give me papers to sign.

 

I can confirm that with the reasons above, that this policy would be of no benefit to me.

[ims21]

This is my provsional letter that I intend to send to the Ombudsman, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts:

 

 

I refer to the letter dated 20th October 2011 regarding the Ombudsman’s provisional decision.

 

I would like to add the following in response to the Ombudsman’s points in the decision letter.

 

First of all, the overarching question regarding whether Creation gave me clear information.

As I pointed out in my original complaint and on the questionnaire I felt that the information given to me was not clear because I not once was told or was my attention drawn to the fact that the policy was a single premium policy and that it would attract interest if it was not settled after the twelve month period, my attention was drawn to the cost if settled, as is clearly circled on the document, so why not continue to explain the PPI details?

Also, as case studies show regarding upheld complaints on the FOS’s own website regarding information given at the point of sale. I can confirm that no questions were asked about my circumstances with regards to work benefits or existing insurance held by me, of which I have life insurance and full pay for six months and half pay for twelve months if I am off work, I also have family that could help if needed. This is regarded as good practice even for non-advised sales.

I will again state that on more than one occasion the only fact I was told about the policy on more than one occasion was that it was free and that I might as well have it. I would interpret that as a recommendation, I would also ask was this a commission based sale for the salesman?

With regards to this I would say it is clear that the salesman, on behalf of Creation, did not put me in a position where I could make an informed choice or take adequate steps to ensure that the policy suited my needs, but sated more than once that I may as well take the policy because it’s free.

 

I will again point out with regards to my personal circumstances that I have both now and in the past on financial products such as credit cards and loans which I have taken out, never took out payment protection insurance as I already have adequate cover through work and personal policies.

 

The Ombudsman states that he is not in a position to know what I was told by the salesman, I can certainly confirm that I was only told that the policy was free with no further explanation about it, this can be confirmed by my wife who was with me at the time of the sale. With regards to the point that I took out the policy because I intended to pay it off early although of course I would have liked to, this was certainly not the case as I had no way of knowing if I would be paying the policy off before the offer period expiry.

A personal example of this would be a nine month interest free credit card that I have taken out, where I also could have paid off the balance within the offer period to avoid interest, even with these products I do not take out the PPI policy because as previously stated, I am adequately covered.

 

Blue bit doesn't make sense With regards to that I was given the documents and demands and needs statements, I will point out that my attention was not drawn to any points about the insurance on any of these, something that should have pointed out, even in a non-advised sale, with me and is regarded as good industry practice.

 

I draw attention also to the Ombudsman’s reasons why I may have taken out the policy.

I already had and still do have life cover provided by a personal policy and also as a work related benefit so the loan would have been protected by these. As stated I was not asked anything about this.

If I would have found myself off work due to accident or sickness I would be covered again by work related benefits as described previously. All work related benefits were, and still are, available to me from the first day of my employment with Northern Rail. If I found myself unemployed I would use my previous experience in order to find employment and I could also ask my family if the need arose. Again I will point out that I was not asked my circumstances regarding this.

 

I can also certainly safely conclude that if I was told or my attention drawn to the fact that this was a single premium PPI policy that would attract interest if I did not pay within the special offer period I would certainly not have taken out this policy.

 

I would also again draw attention to the fact that the salesman stating that “the policy is free, you may as well have it” would be a recommendation, even though Creation state that this was a non-advised policy.

 

So, I would like to say that if this was a non –advised policy why did the salesman say this and did the salesman get commission for PPI sales?

 

I also draw attention to the adjudicator’s decision to uphold my complaint.

The adjudicator states he does not think the significance of the cancellation terms were made sufficiently clear to me and also after considering my account agrees that I would not have taken out the policy if I was fully informed.

 

I'd remove the following paragraph...your personal circumstances at the time are not relevant to the Ombudsman

I will also point out that due to my circumstances at the time that is that I had just started a new job in Manchester that I was undergoing training for and that I would be spending considerable time away from my family and also that we required this washing machine as a replacement as our existing one had broken down, obviously my thoughts were on a number of things at the time and an experienced financial salesman would haverecognised this and explained the policy and written documentation in more detail than was given and not just give me papers to sign.

 

I can confirm that with (remove "with"...replace with "for") the reasons above, that (Delete "that") this policy would be of no benefit to me.

 

 

My thoughts in red above

 

ims

[lhmcr1]

I will edit that, thanks ims21, I can now only hope it makes a difference.

Anyone with any last thoughts before I sen it off?

[lhmcr1]

I have sent off the new edited letter to the FOS so I should be hearing from them soon, just hope the response is a bit more favourable.

[ski1382]

subbing with interest

[lhmcr1]

I have now received the Ombudsmans final decision, and unfortunately my complaint has not been upheld.

Saying that they caanot safely conclude my version of events being what actually happened.

Also that they agree with me that it is good industry practice, and a regulatory requirement for Creation to ensure I received sufficient information to make an informed choice, but they cannot be sure my needs were sufficiently met.

And despite me not taking out PPI on any financial products that I currently have I might have found it useful???

This continues on all points made, basically what appears to be "we believe it could have happened this way but we'll go with what the business says"

[ims21]

Hi

 

So you have an adjudicator the upheld the complaint and higher bods have refused your claim twice.

 

Seems to me that your only option now would be to sue in court if you wish to take that route.

 

ims