jmg vs NatWest

[jmg666]

Hi - until about 2 years ago I banked with NatWest and then had a major falling-out with them and switched to Halifax, who I've just started a claim against for their mishandling of my funds.

 

Thing is this - I exceeded my overdraft on a fairly regular basis at one stage and whereas once upon a time I could have gone into my local branch and talked about it with someone who knew my account and could reach an agreement on how to go forward, I was arbitrarily passed over to a debt management unit at the other end of the country. I spoke to their people once or twice and they were astonishingly disinterested in helping me find a solution to my problems, pompous and... well, they were useless, basically. I ended up paying substantial charges to them over a period of time and in the end took out a loan so that I could pay off what I owed them, closed my account and that was that.

 

OK, that's the history part. My question is this - can I still get copies of my statements for the appropriate period from them if I pay a fee and is it worth going after them to try and get this money back?

 

If there's anyone else who's been in the same or similar circumstances, I'd appreciate some guidance here. Thanks in advance.

[Guest NATTIE]

Yes to the first question on statements and yes it is worth claiming YOUR money back, the last question I will have to leave for someone else as I haven't been in the same boat as yourself but GOOD LUCK

[jmg666]

I can recall my account number but don't have any idea what the sort code was - any ideas how I can find this out?

Also, if I closed the account two years ago (it might have been three years, I can't recall exactly) then presumably calculation of interest applicable would stop at the point I closed the account?

[Guest NATTIE]

do you know where the account was opened? If so look at the natwest website who have a branch locator on the site

[jmg666]

I opened the account in Diss, South Norfolk when I used to work there 30-odd years ago. The account was mainly held at Colchester, near where I still live.

Pre the RBS takeover I had had problems before on occasion and resolved them with the help of a branch member who I could at least talk to and discuss the circumstances. Once the RBS owned NatWest though, it was a different story - no options, no discussion, suddenly my account was being administered by a debt management unit in the Wirral or somewhere and there was no debate possible.

 

My problem is I don't want to bother going up against them if they can produce a defence which says that they had to administer my account in this way because I was a financial incompetent - although I suppose the principle remains that the charges are unfair and they wouldn't explain then how they arrived at them, so it's probably worth finding out what these might be for the sake of a tenner.

 

This could become a full-time job - claim against Halifax heading towards court, probably NatWest next, then we start on the credit cards - Goldfish, Amex...

[Guest NATTIE]

NatWest have one problem, you could have been an absolute idiot with your account but can they prove it costs them £38 to return a DD chq SO automatically? I would say NO. Tot up all the charges when you get the statements and see how much of your money you will get back. That will tell you if its worth it

[jmg666]

Thanks, you're quite right, it's the principle that matters. I've just had a total settlement from my claim against Halifax and am now feeling well up for going after NatWest.

[jmg666]

Data Protection letter with £10 fee on its way to NatWest this morning.

[jmg666]

First response from NatWest received this morning. Staggering in its stupidity.

 

The SAR letter I sent them clearly stated my account number between the salutation and the body of the letter. However, I had a letter from someone called Joyce E Tudor, Retail Regulatory Risk saying that "...without an account number and sort code we have no way of locating a closed account. I am sure you understand that from the number of accounts held by the bank, it would be an impossible task to research records using the details you have supplied. Therefore please inform us of your sort code or branch name and account number."

 

I've just mailed a reply back to the woman explaining that although I'd put the account number in my original letter if she cared to check, I was happy to provide it again. I have no idea whether account information is stored only by these criteria or whether names are part of the equation, but if they are, this is obviously a delaying tactic - my surname is a conjunction of mine and my ex-wife's surnames, hyphenated and to be honest, I doubt that there's anyone on their records in the UK, let alone Essex, who has this name.

[jmg666]

Eventually got a stack of duplicate statements back from NatWest and between January 2000 and September 2002 they took £1,194.68 off me in charges for unpaid DDs, etc. I evidently closed the account in 2002 and am just about to send them the preliminary letter stating what I want back from them, ie the above amount. I've entered the details into the spreadsheet and the interest on this is around £480 at the moment.

As I'm no longer a customer, it'll be interesting to see what approach I get from them - will keep you all advised of progress. I suppose technically I'm outside the 6-year limit going back to Jan 2000, but what the hell - it's worth going for.

[jmg666]

Received a letter this morning from Natwest, signed by Stuart Higley in Customer Relations. Mildly amused by the fact that they converted my initials (JI) into OJ.

 

Pretty much the response I'd expected - "we believe that our charges are fair, reasonable and transparent" etc, they don't accept the Office of Fair Trading's statement of 5 April 2006 on credit card fees (my charges relate to a current account, not to a credit card) and so on.

 

He goes on to say "we must differ with the views you have expressed and will not be refunding any of the charges applied to your bank account....

... the bank is under no obligation to explain how its charges are calculated and we are not prepared to enter into any correspondence on this matter. The compilation is a confidential commercial matter."

 

On the basis of my win over Halifax I'm certainly not going to let this one slip, but I also note the slightly more pugnacious stance that the letter suggests - his final paragraph runs:

 

"I am disappointed to note that you are contemplating legal action against the bank. Whilst I hope you will feel able to reconsider, should you decide to go ahead, please ensure that any Proceedings are served on our Registered Office address, which appears at the foot of this letter."

 

Does/has Natwest defended any claims so far, or are they just sabre-rattling and hoping that we'll all go away and will then settle at the 11th hour?

[Guest NATTIE]

NatWest have so only once and won last year but never using the CAG method and yes it is an 11th hour settlement, seems to be at work these days. The last paragraph is simply stating to you where to serve papers on when you sue, so time for LBA or if done sue them

[jmg666]

I sent my LBA before Christmas (not great timing, admittedly) and received a letter last week from the famous Stuart Higley, apologising for not having responded sooner, but saying they would investigate and be in touch.

I'm guessing this is a time-waster and that I should just go ahead and start the small claims procedure?

[RobberBank]

If your deadline has passed...hit the button!

[jmg666]

Took yer man's advice, hit the button and started the online claims thing - have had my acknowledgement from the court, but nothing as yet from Natwest. Will keep you posted.

[jmg666]

Received a letter from NatWest solicitor last week saying that they intended to defend the claim, and this morning received a letter from Stuart Higley with the usual blether about charges being fair, etc etc, but offering as a gesture of goodwill to refund the amount I was claiming in full. In the meantime of course, I now have a MCOL process for which I've forked out £120 and they've conveniently ignored the interest aspect of my claim which is another £490-odd.

I think I have two options here - I can either do what I did with Halifax, write back and say I'll accept the money as a partial settlement, and will be pursuing the outstanding money through small claims court, or just write back and say that I've now been put to further expense because of the MCOL thing and will not accept the offer, but will push ahead for the full amount including interest and the cort fee. Anyone got any views on which is best/most likely to end in me getting all the cash back?

[saint-luco]

this is what i sent with help from michael brown

 

Dear [named sender or Sirs]

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx. Prior to receipt of your letter I have filed a claim in the County Court and have therefore incurred further costs.

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees now totalling £xxxx

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

[saint-luco]

this ones a bit better

 

Mr Stuart Higley

Customer Relations

Ground Floor

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Borehamwood

WD6 1TE

Dear Mr Higley

Response to settlement offer.

 

Re: Account No – ********, Sort Code – ******

Thank you for your letter dated 9th February 2007. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement of £3309.50.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 6th January 2007 and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction. In my instance Cobbetts are the firm being used and my Claim Number is 7QZ02387.

 

Should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim of £4487.25 (which includes interest and court fees paid) without further conditions and I would then inform the court that the claim is settled and ask them to discontinue proceedings.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

[jmg666]

Sent a letter based on the one above on 27th Feb respectfully declining their offer and asking for the amount they'd offered plus the court fee and the interest as I'd started the court proceedings as they'd missed my deadline.

Today I have a thumping great package of legalese from Cobbetts - two copies of 6 pages of impenetrable stuff headed DEFENCE. I am slightly scared, I'll be honest, and somewhat concerned in case I've done something wrong and haven't realised it.

For example, Item 3 on the songsheet says:

In the Particulars the Claimant states "I am claiming the return of money taken by the Defendant by way of charges"

3.1 If the Claimant is to bring such a claim against the Defendant then the Claimant must (among other things) plead the account(s) (giving details of the name and number of the account(s)) to which the charges have been applied.

Item 5 says that I need to identify for each charge the date, amount and description applied to the charge. When I sent in my original letter after the SAR I enclosed a breakdown of the charges with the account number on the top, dates for each charge and the amount, but instead of identifying them as (say) Unpaid DD fee, I labelled each one as "charge".

 

Clearly the document is designed to intimidate and so far it's working - I'm sure I'm not the only person to have received something like this and would really, really appreciate some assurance that I haven't f***ed up big-time.

Reassurance and assistance urgently appreciated, please.

[jmg666]

Just realised that it isn't two copies of the same document, it's a defence document and a "Request for further information and clarification", served "pursuant to CPR Part 18 alternatively with regard to CPR Rule 27.2(3).

I apparently have until 19th March to respond to this, assuming that I'm required to do legally, or are they just trying to blind me with science?

[jmg666]

Took my £100 fee and my AQ (completed as suggested elsewhere) to Colchester County Court on Friday 23rd March, and yesterday (24th) received copy of Cobbett's AQ. Section G, other info:

Case management directions cannot be proposed until the Claimant serves a Reply to the Request for Further Information which was due on 19 March 2007. In light of this, the Defendant may amend its Defence or apply to strike out.

I understand this may be standard Cobbett's tactic on behalf of NatWest, but I've sent back a breakdown of the claim details to them pointing out that their client has already received this. Should I be pointing this out again and copying in the Court on this letter, or just ignoring it and waiting for them to come up with an offer? Assistance/guidance appreciated. TIA.

[sif]

Hi jmg. You are in the same boat as me. I received Cobblers AQ on 24th and my wording is the same. I have been told this is just scare tactics by them and now you only need to give any further information if requested by the judge. Sit tight and wait......... then hopefully nice big fat cheque delivered by postie .

[hedgey06]

Hey jmg, although I've not reached court stage yet - from reading threads on here sounds like standard cobblers from the cobblers mate! have a look at sif's thread (not far from the top) cos sif's getting much of the same as you are! good luck, hedgey xxx

[sif]

Gonna watch your thread now as all your dates, wording etc is the same as mine. FINGERS CROSSED FOR US BOTH X

[jmg666]

Thanks hedgey & sif - I guess if the court wants something they'll ask for it, but it's just a major pain that Cobbetts seem to be dragging the chain all the way down to the wire, but so long as they pay up in the end, I don't giver a monkey's. Good luck both and keep us posted