ESA decision timescale - help pls

[COUNTMEIN]

Several years ago when I was an I/B DM if the medical had been failed with a score of 10(ish)+ we would try our hardest to find extra points when doing a reconsideration or appeal, just to get the score upto 15, because if we didn't then the appeal board generally would. The more (relivant) information provided on the appeal the easier this was. Often, however the appeal letter would simply consist of "I wish to appeal against the decision to stop my benefit because it is wrong"! There was not much we could do with those

 

It was much harder however to over rule the Atos doctor if the medical has been scored 0 & from what I read on here that's what appears to be happen nowadays.

 

& for the record the general quality of IB50's completed by I/B claimants was terrible & made it much harder for us to help them when they did get disallowed. I doubt thiceice of ings will have changed much there.

 

Thanks Jabba for posting that , do you still work for them?...as I noticed in your opening sentence you said 'several years ago?.

I do/did get the distinct impression, that the second DM tried her darnedest to help/rectify things for me? - She even states that 'she disagreed' with original decision makers and HCP choice of descriptors???...but Bossman Doctor at ATOS, he said NO:x...

Thats whats confusing me, is it DM/DWP that have the say-so ( no, imho) or ATOS???

 

Regards

 

countmein x

[jabba jones]

Thanks Jabba for posting that , do you still work for them?...as I noticed in your opening sentence you said 'several years ago?.

I do/did get the distinct impression, that the second DM tried her darnedest to help/rectify things for me? - She even states that 'she disagreed' with original decision makers and HCP choice of descriptors???...but Bossman Doctor at ATOS, he said NO:x...

Thats whats confusing me, is it DM/DWP that have the say-so ( no, imho) or ATOS???

 

Regards

 

countmein x

 

I do still work for "them" in some capacity but I left the I/B section some years ago. TBH so many things have changed since then that I'm some what out of the loop & can only comment on how things were rather than are.

 

When I was last there Sema & then SchlumbergerSema did the medicals & all the questionairres & Dr requests were sent out by the I/B section.

 

You've got to remember as DM's we had no medical training, we had to go from what the Dr's report told us. Like I said earlier it's sometimes not too hard to find a few extra points here & there, but to go from 0 to 15 you are basically saying you completely disagree with the Dr. On occasions where I felt there was a major discrepancy I would ask Sema for advice & that sometimes led to another medical taking place. I would suggest it appears that is what the DM has attempted to do in your case.

[speedfreek]

The procedure works like this (for ESA, IB may well be different):

 

 

 

[*]ATOS sends ESA50 to customer, and makes WCA appointment

[*]ATOS receives ESA50 and conducts medical exam

[*]ESA50 and medical exam result are sent by ATOS to DWP

 

There are other cases - if it's obvious to a DM from supplied medical evidence that no WCA is necessary ("this patient will spend the next year in hospital") then no referral to ATOS would be necessary.

 

From the experience I've had the DWP never get to see the ESA50. In fact it is only ATOS who produce for the DM a report on the ESA50 and also on the WCA assessment, who handle any of the documents from the initial telephone call for the claim until decision. With no DWP involvement until both reports are sent for the DM to decide on.

 

No bias whatsoever in backing up your own initial assessment of the ESA50 in your subsequent report on the WCA medical?

 

Call me paranoid but paying somebody to assess both the ESA50 and then provide a medical where by they can support that initial decision is erm.... open to abuse for ???? profit ????

[speedfreek]

Sema & then SchlumbergerSema

 

I may have worked for them on the floor down from the DWP contracts

 

Once, twice, three rings then I'm allowed to put your 1 hour emergency fix call on hold for 24 hours since you didn't answer

 

Sema = ATOS as they were absorbed by them

 

I know a lot about DWP and IT contracts (well a bit anyway) :idea:

[antone]

From the experience I've had the DWP never get to see the ESA50. In fact it is only ATOS who produce for the DM a report on the ESA50 and also on the WCA assessment, who handle any of the documents from the initial telephone call for the claim until decision. With no DWP involvement until both reports are sent for the DM to decide on.

 

No bias whatsoever in backing up your own initial assessment of the ESA50 in your subsequent report on the WCA medical?

 

Call me paranoid but paying somebody to assess both the ESA50 and then provide a medical where by they can support that initial decision is erm.... open to abuse for ???? profit ????

 

When the ATOS WCA report comes back to the DWP, it's placed in an ESA55 jacket. The ESA50 has been included in 90% of the ESA55s that I've seen, although I didn't work for Med Ref at any point, so I won't swear that my experience is universal.

[speedfreek]

When the ATOS WCA report comes back to the DWP, it's placed in an ESA55 jacket. The ESA50 has been included in 90% of the ESA55s that I've seen, although I didn't work for Med Ref at any point, so I won't swear that my experience is universal.

 

You'll have to excuse me I'm semi compus mentus atm

 

ATOS are employed to produce the report for the WCA assessment as DM's are non medical.

 

Are they also employed to summarise the medical content of the ESA50 form for a DM to read in non medical terms in a report?

 

If so would a DM actually need to read the ESA50 or just the non medical termed report done by ATOS?

 

Trying not to have ago I'm just confused atm

 

It seams to me that everything from the point you telephone until a decision is made is now controlled by ATOS under the umbrella "Medical Services"

 

DWP say we don't know we must contact medical service! ATOS say we don't know either & must contact "Medical Services"

 

All correspondence from "Medical Services" is actually ATOS (it says this on the letter head # facepalms ATOS on behalf of the DWP) and non of it makes sense or is coherent :!

 

Where it says on all the processes documents etc that there is a DWP DM decision made in reality it is only possible via a referral by ATOS sorry "Medical Services" back to a DM which never happens.

 

So from the initial telephone call until the 2 non medical reports (one for the ESA50 and one for the WCA) land on the DMs desk they have no part in it at all?

 

I may be way off the mark here but that's the impression I'm getting

[happyhamr]

hellow:)

 

 

(A) You are only required to complete the work focused health related assessment during your "INITIAL" Employment and Support Allowance assessment. (your medical,yes)

 

An assessment report

 

(B) After your assessment,the healthcare professional will complete a medical report and forward it to the office dealing with your claim.

" If the work focused health related assessment is undertaken,":rolleyes:

(IT MUST OF BEEN,if you look/read (A) "yeah"

 

if the work focused health related assessment is undertaken,then the report will be sent to both your personal adviser and you.

 

(this is from a little booklet(atos) titled, YOUR WORK CAPABILITY ASSESSMENT

 

so if your medical lasts 20 minutes or 2hours (i think ALL of us would have had a WORK CAPABILITY ASSESSMENT) "yeah"

 

1 more bit from atos booklet:)

 

The Employment and Support Allowance medical assessment is called the

WORK CAPABILITY ASSESSMENT:-)

 

i was confused/ unsure whether i had actually had a WCA/WFHRA at my "one" and only medical,but it seems everyone has taking the words from this atos booklet and taking (A),above into account:-) yes.

 

just a bit more from atos booklet; wca yes, wfhra yes.(according to (A)

 

How long is the assessment

 

The assessment,if it includes a work focused health related assessment:eek:(if ,if, according to (A)

 

if it includes a WFHRA,is likely to take around 75 minutes. However,please

prepare for your visit to our centre to be up 2 hours.

 

just look/read (A) personally i have only had one medical, but did not

realise / know for sure if a wca/ wfhra was done;

but if you take(A) into account ,,, "yeah"

i find the atos/ dwp letters "so unclear" at times; I bet most of us at some

point have found this as well. DWP&ATOS ,MUST IMPROVE in this area.,to

help people who understand exactly what they are "saying".(please)

 

cheers happyhamr:)

[ErikaPNP]

The WFHRA only applies to claimants who are in the WRAG group. I've attached some technical factsheets which might explain it a bit better. There are so many abbreviations in relation to "assessments" in ESA, it's little wonder claimant's get confused and find the system hell to navigate.

t12_claims_process___assessment_phase.pdf

t14_wca.pdf

[happyhamr]

hellow erika:)

 

Do you mean people who attend work focused interviews, because i have had to attend WFI(s) but i am/ do not know for certain whether or not i am in the "work related activity group":rolleyes: (i definately dont get any extra monies(£25pounds) for having to attend these : WFI(s)(PATHWAYS).

 

also could you/anybody, please give an opinion to;

 

(A) you are only required to complete the work focused health related assessment during your initial Employment and Support Allowance assessment.

 

what this states to me is , you have your wca and your wfhra assessments at your one and only medical . ...yes/no will suffice.

 

atos words,,, (booklet)...not mine:-)

 

cheers happyhamr

[ErikaPNP]

There is no yes or no answer. It depends on whether the person has LCWRA as well as LCW.

 

The WCA does include the WFHRA if and only if LCWRA (limited capability for work related activity) does not apply. If it does apply, then no WFRHA.

 

Some people have LCW (limited capability for work) but not LCWRA.

[happyhamr]

5 regestered caggers and 2 guests (must be intresting)

 

anymore replies/ responses to (A)

[happyhamr]

also i have just read on atos leaflet;

 

employment and support allowance- your medical questionaire.

 

work focused health related assessment.

 

you are only required to complete this last part of the assessment at your first medical assessment.

 

atos words(not mine)

[speedfreek]

The news that the WFHRA’s are to be dropped from Monday 19 July 2010 was broken quietly in a letter to members of the JCP Customer Representative Group, subsequently published on the Rightsnet website.

 

I think they play rock scissors paper stone to decide it now

[antone]

hellow erika:)

 

Do you mean people who attend work focused interviews, because i have had to attend WFI(s) but i am/ do not know for certain whether or not i am in the "work related activity group":rolleyes: (i definately dont get any extra monies(£25pounds) for having to attend these : WFI(s)(PATHWAYS).

 

also could you/anybody, please give an opinion to;

 

(A) you are only required to complete the work focused health related assessment during your initial Employment and Support Allowance assessment.

 

what this states to me is , you have your wca and your wfhra assessments at your one and only medical . ...yes/no will suffice.

 

atos words,,, (booklet)...not mine:-)

 

cheers happyhamr

 

Speedfreak provides information in post #38 that I was not aware of, having left the DWP well before the date mentioned.

 

Anyhow, the initial idea was that the WFHRA and WCA would take place at the same appointment. That didn't work out, because the volume of ESA claims was much higher than expected. Doing both at once simply took too long. Some offices started doing WFHRAs on separate days, others suspended them altogether.

 

As Erika said, they're only relevant for people in the WRAG, and I suspect that someone has figured out that they're a waste of the customer's time and taxpayers' money. But if anyone is asked to attend one, do so. The only way they can be used to stop your benefit is if you don't turn up.

 

They're not the same thing as WFIs, though, and it is in your best interests to attend those if possible. Should you win your appeal and be placed in the Work-Related Activity Group, any WFIs you've already been to will count towards the six you are required to attend.

[speedfreek]

Speedfreak provides information in post #38 that I was not aware of, having left the DWP well before the date mentioned.

 

I wouldn't take that as gospel as the B&W forum has people still being called for em.

[sj01]

I had my 'Work Focused Health Related Asesment' cancelled two months ago and thought that the government had decided to cancell them but I got a letter on Friday inviting me to go for one in three weeks time. It expains in the letter that the appointment is 'to give me advice and support about overcoming my barriers to work'.

It says I must attend but the content of the report will not affect my benefit in anyway.

What a bloody waste of time.