Scottish and Southern & E-On Mix up

[oldandtired]

Hello, new to this as I am 65 and my wife is 65 also but recently had both her legs amputated (There is a reason for telling you this)

 

Last month we received a threatening postcard from E-on telling us that as we had refused to let them in they would be disconnecting our gas supply.

 

This was confusing as for four years since we moved into a new build house Scottish and Southern had been taking money from us for our gas.

 

I rang the number to let them know there must be an error because of this and was advised to ring Scottish and Southern to confirm meter identity number.

 

After a few weeks of back and forth conversations with both Scottish and Southern and E-on I was horrified to find out that indeed Scottish and Southern had been taking money from us erroneously and that our account should always have been with E-on.

 

So on the 22nd of this month Scottish and Southern agreed to refund the entire amount over the four year period and I contacted E-on to let them know and they told me they would generate an account and send out a bill.

 

Well yesterday they sent a debt collector to the door as an ambulance arrived to take my wife to the hospital, now instead of acting decently and going back to his car and waiting or even just getting out of the way he stayed there and checked the meter anyway. He left me with a letter telling me that again as I had refused entry to them this letter was going to cost me £30 and they would also seek an injunction to gain access to my property and that if granted it would add a further £230.

 

I rang them yesterday and spent about an hour on the phone with a supposed manager who agreed that we were in no way responsible for these errors and that the visitation should never have taken place, They then informed me that they had been sending our mail to the wrong address (housing association) who by the way have not confirmed this or ever sent any on to us, Towards the end of the phone call it seemed like she was working towards a fair and amicable resolution and would call me back today, then she hit me with the bombshell, our refund was £1499, but their bill would be £1784.

 

I waited nervously for the phone call today and at 7.00pm she called me back to say she had looked through all the details and what she could offer me was a payment plan....yes that is all...a payment plan.

 

I asked to speak to her manager and was called back about an hour later, this manager was much softer spoken and seemed like he was willing to listen to me, He thought the main problem was that when everything was agreed on the 22nd the system should have been set back to the start, I.E no threatening letters and no doorstep visitation, He agreed this was their fault and they had to accept responsibility for their actions and as a measure of a goodwill gesture he would offer me a £30 reduction.

 

I considered this to be an insult and told him so and we spoke further for about another 30 minutes during which he told me that although the error was not our fault it was also not E-on to blame and therefore was not fair that E-on should have to wipe out the additional £285 they wanted to charge for these four years, and that I should pay it and take it on the chin and try to reclaim it from Scottish and Southern instead, during this conversation he did say he would speak to his manager (Seriously how many managers are there?) and see if they could absorb half of the extra cost and then we pursue Scottish and Southern for the other half.

 

Can they really do this after four years, just contact us twice officially with two threatening lettters, no bill and really expect us to pay £1784?

[dx100uk]

no def not.

 

the billing code only allows them to backdate 12mts usage if no previous bill was sent.

 

i think we have scottish and southern on board here at cag

 

let me look

 

i'll be back with a contact name.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

not sure if scottish and southern are the same as scottishpower..

but here is the members link:

send them a pm with a link to this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=292313

 

dx

[dx100uk]

urm.

 

might not be the same compamy.

 

very confusing all these names!

 

dx

[oldandtired]

Thanks for your responses, but the main problem is E-on, Scottish and Southern have refunded us and been very nice about everything, or am i missing something?

[dx100uk]

no but i am! - sorry

 

right

e-on cannot charge you for more than 1 years backdated useage if they have only 'just' sent you your first ever bill from them.

 

how does that work out in your scenario

 

dx

[oldandtired]

no but i am! - sorry

 

right

e-on cannot charge you for more than 1 years backdated useage if they have only 'just' sent you your first ever bill from them.

 

how does that work out in your scenario

 

dx

 

Hi again,

 

Sorry did not mean to be rude, well the thing is E-on still have not sent us a bill, they have told us over the phone and sent two threatening (lying) missives stating we refused access, which is so stupid as its on the front wall and anyone can read it if they want to, Scottish and Southern sent a bill every three months and we always paid it, can E-on really only ask for 12 months worth of payments even though it was not their fault?

[dx100uk]

you were not rude.......i was being dense in not understanding you msg...

 

can i just recap what my small brain has soaked up.......

 

you & SSE though they were your suppliers so you payed etc and they refunded.

it turns out E-ON were your supplier from day one & havingjust [E-ON] found that out - they want the full occupancy usage, but didn't even bother to send a bill just the doorstep muppets [who have no legal powers at all - so put their threats out of you head!]

 

dx

[oldandtired]

you were not rude.......i was being dense in not understanding you msg...

 

can i just recap what my small brain has soaked up.......

 

you & SSE though they were your suppliers so you payed etc and they refunded.

it turns out E-ON were your supplier from day one & havingjust [E-ON] found that out - they want the full occupancy usage, but didn't even bother to send a bill just the doorstep muppets [who have no legal powers at all - so put their threats out of you head!]

 

dx

 

Yes that's basically it, I could have summarised it better but i was still so angry....hence my being awake at nearly 2am, I've had two phone chats where thay have now offered me a whopping £30 discount on £1784, but have still not sent me a bill

 

I am going to bed now, many thanks for the time you have taken withthis thread

 

Regards

John

[dx100uk]

thats ok

 

the troops will be on this in the morning

 

i've got the basics clear now

 

should be an easier task for them.

 

cag fire-fighter to stand-by.........

 

dx

[oldandtired]

An update to this case.

 

The bill from E.on has arrived this morning and it is beyond vague.

 

Your plan - E.On EnergyPlan

Please pay now - £1784.80

 

The Details

Your Last Bill on 03 Mar 2010 - £1676.46

 

Now they have already freely admitted that they never sent this bill to us and it went to the other address they were using (Not supplied by us)

 

Does this change anything?

[dx100uk]

so there has been a bill, but it was sent to the wrong ad?

if so, that will stand, but again, they can only claim 12mts prev to it.

 

i'm not sure where nottslad is or pelham9

but i'm sure they'll be up soon.

 

dx

[oldandtired]

so there has been a bill, but it was sent to the wrong ad?

if so, that will stand, but again, they can only claim 12mts prev to it.

 

i'm not sure where nottslad is or pelham9

but i'm sure they'll be up soon.

 

dx

 

Yes, they have told me that they are aware the wrong address and addressed only to occupier was used for months on end (if not years) but this small fact seems in no way to bother them.

[dx100uk]

no it might not.

 

sadly it could both you though.

as bills WERE sent,

not sure on this 'the occupier' bit though...

 

so they have been sending bills concerning another property, to a property you used to live at addressed to the occupier....urm.

 

if i got mail like that i know where it would go...in the round filing cabinet.

 

something smells here.

 

i think e-on are trying to pull a fast one.

 

i'll ping nottslad

 

hang on.

 

dx

[oldandtired]

no it might not.

 

sadly it could both you though.

as bills WERE sent,

not sure on this 'the occupier' bit though...

 

so they have been sending bills concerning another property, to a property you used to live at addressed to the occupier....urm.

 

if i got mail like that i know where it would go...in the round filing cabinet.

 

something smells here.

 

i think e-on are trying to pull a fast one.

 

i'll ping nottslad

 

hang on.

 

dx

 

Well this is the weird bit, the mail they sent intended for us went to the Housing Association or so they claim, but the H.A have never passed any on to us or confirmed that any ever arrived there, and they claim to have only sent one bill in March this year. They also admit they did not know our names until 22nd of this month, even though when the first ever post from E.on arrived, a threat, I supplied my name and full address as I knew I had done nothing wrong. Thank you again for your many replies of help.

[dx100uk]

gets funnier by the minute.

 

if that is the case

i think you will owe them very little.

 

by LAW they MUST have access to read the meter every two years

so if thats not been done by them, that points to other issues too.

 

dx

[oldandtired]

gets funnier by the minute.

 

if that is the case

i think you will owe them very little.

 

by LAW they MUST have access to read the meter every two years

so if thats not been done by them, that points to other issues too.

 

dx

 

Their debt collector read the meter on Monday and to the best of my knowledge it is the first time it has ever been done by E.On

[nottslad]

The billing code probably won't strictly apply as it sounds as if it was a new build property where eon were not informed of the change of tenancy.

 

Being over 60, you have the right to escalate the matter to the Ombudsman immediately as you are deemed a vulnerable customer - this is set out in the eon complaints handling procedure, and their contact details should also be made available to you.

 

In effect, EON can take the action that they have in billing you for the entire period, however the way of resolving the issues highlighted is obviously not the correct thing to do.

 

The codes of practice can be found at Codes of Practice : E.ON

 

If I were in your position, I would contact back the senior manager you spoke to - who was this anyway, just out of interest? Advise them that you have considered their offer of £30 and due to the upset and financial hardship the extra payment will cause, you wish to contact the Energy Supply Ombudsman as you remain dissatisfied, and that you understand as a vulnerable customer you are entitled to escalate this matter straight away.

 

It is likely that the Ombudsman will rule in your favor, and request EON either apply the "spirit of the billing code" or a greater financial reward to compensate for the poor service you have encountered.

[oldandtired]

Hi thanks for your reply, definitely not as uplifting as I hoped but probably very accurate, he rang me back today actually but did not give me his name, And he was only ringing me back to tell me he had been unable to speak to his manager at all as she was out all day, I gave him your reply almost verbatim and it seemed to throw him off a little.....not a lot just a little, He thinks it unlikely the ombudsman would rule in our favor but will discuss the matter with her tomorrow and then call me back.

 

Regards

John

 

The billing code probably won't strictly apply as it sounds as if it was a new build property where eon were not informed of the change of tenancy.

 

Being over 60, you have the right to escalate the matter to the Ombudsman immediately as you are deemed a vulnerable customer - this is set out in the eon complaints handling procedure, and their contact details should also be made available to you.

 

In effect, EON can take the action that they have in billing you for the entire period, however the way of resolving the issues highlighted is obviously not the correct thing to do.

 

The codes of practice can be found at Codes of Practice : E.ON

 

If I were in your position, I would contact back the senior manager you spoke to - who was this anyway, just out of interest? Advise them that you have considered their offer of £30 and due to the upset and financial hardship the extra payment will cause, you wish to contact the Energy Supply Ombudsman as you remain dissatisfied, and that you understand as a vulnerable customer you are entitled to escalate this matter straight away.

 

It is likely that the Ombudsman will rule in your favor, and request EON either apply the "spirit of the billing code" or a greater financial reward to compensate for the poor service you have encountered.

[nottslad]

I would expect that the manager you spoke to will come back and offer a bigger amount of compensation to try and stop you going to the Ombudsman, which may be worth considering?

 

I must admit I am getting a bit out of touch now with the Ombudsman as I haven't worked in that area for quite some time... but definitely keep complaining!

[oldandtired]

Well truthfully I was happy to pay what I was refunded as that seemed fair, But then E.On decided to treat us like criminals and add to our stress levels with what I would call unacceptable levels of customer service, So now I think its only fair that whatever they offer is less than the refund by at least a few hundred pounds

 

I would expect that the manager you spoke to will come back and offer a bigger amount of compensation to try and stop you going to the Ombudsman, which may be worth considering?

 

I must admit I am getting a bit out of touch now with the Ombudsman as I haven't worked in that area for quite some time... but definitely keep complaining!

[pelham9]

This story is typical of the many problems that arise from mal-administration of the supply to newbuilds.

 

First there is the mixup over the original supplier -if Eon were the original supplier how did S&S think they were your supplier and vice versa. It is possible that here were two entries an the distibutors database a) for the correct postal address and b) for the HA's address. S&S could be supplying under the a) entry and Eon could be supplying under b) - they say they have billed the HA address. If this were the case there would be two MPAN/MPRN numbers for the same meter at different addresses. Have you any indications?

 

There are three posible scenarios

 

1)Ether EON or S&S or both thought they were the supplier but neither or both were paying the distributor. In this case the distibutor would not have been paid or been paid x2. Something would have happened sooner than 4 yearrs (wouldn't it?)

 

2) S&S were the original supplier and were paying the distributor. They certainly acted as if this was the case, billing you and receiving payment from you. You were quite happy with this situation. However the outcome of the behind the scenes dispute suggests that Eon did have a prior claim to the account.

 

3) After 4 years Eon suddenly realise that they had a claim to to account and have been paying the distibutor. They start proceedings to get the account back to them. There would have been enquries to S&S aind the disributor and the findings were in Eon's favour. S&S give in but insists that your payments be refunded to you if they do not keep the account.( a very clever move ). Databases will be changed all round so that any discrepencies are covered up.

 

Eon have now got a choice between

 

a) leaving the account with S&S and this is the simplest option. S&S are happy as is the customer. All payments to the distibutor would be regularised. However Eon are pigheaded and want their pound of flesh so they opt for

 

b) taking the account back. They calculate that

 

i) you have the refund from S&S fron Eon and so have no difficulty in paying them

 

ii) You will accept only a token or even no payment in compensation.

 

iii) you will not have heard of the billing code or if you have that they can bluff you that it does not apply.

 

The billing code applies you have not received bills at the metered address. That has not happened. It is their error that they have an incorrect address. The billing code applies.

 

They claim that over 4 years they have sent your bills to the HA. The HA deny that any such communication has been delivered to their address. If it had they would have readdressed it to you or returned it to Eon. The conclusion is that Eon sent no bills so the billing code applies

 

They claim they sent bills but they they cannot claim that you have paid them. If they sent the bills why have they not investigated 4 years of non payment. Conclusion is that they sent no bills and the billing code applies.

 

I totally agree with the sentiments of your last post except that the 'few hundred pound' is not nearly enough. You should invoke the billing code and pay considerably less for your fuel usage to date and in addition expect compensation for all the inconvenience this has caused you.

 

The billing code was instituted at the request of the regulator so that the many billing errors that the utiliies commit due to inadequate systems are punished by monetary loss. If this does not happen they have no incentive to improve. Please invoke the billing code to improve their service for others.

[dx100uk]

thank you pelham

 

dx

[oldandtired]

Thank you Mr Pelham, I had not updated this thread due to a death in the family.

 

E.On called me on Thursday to tell me that they had passed the matter over to their dedicated billing code team to see if the criteria was met for it to take effect. They promised to call me back either Friday or Monday and as of now 1.50pm they have not called.

 

But I definitely like your explanation of the situation and may use that when I call them back in stead of waiting

[pelham9]

I do not know what they a having to think about. They are clearly at fault and the billing code applies.

 

One thing that they might well say is that you did not ring them to tell them you were occupying the property so how could they know who to bill etc.

 

Answer is

 

You had no idea that Eon thought they werre the supplier and you were billed by S&S and paid them. It seems to me from Eon''s actions that they did not consider that they were the supplier until recently! - so how could you know?

 

If they knew that they were supplying from the outset why then did they not send bills to you at your address. They say they sent bills to the wrong address for 4 years. This is a lie as it is inconceivable that if they had sent bills out that they did nothing about the non-payment of those bills.