bos

[selinajayne]

im wondering how long it takes them to get it stamped

my stamp date is the same date as i got the loan which in time scale doesnt seem right

[applecart]

Hi Nicky

 

Just a quick question - on your Bill of Sale.... does it show any other date stamps at all? and the sums of money paid to have it 'registered'?

[applecart]

Hi Selina

 

I agree; it does seem strange - considering there is a process to getting the BoS registered... (unless you were sitting in the High Court of Justice when you took the loan out with LBL) lol

 

When did you sign the paperwork? was it Morning, Afternoon or Evening?

 

The answer to that question could give you an 'in-road' as to the logical sequence of events and whether what you see in writing is logically possible.

[selinajayne]

i cant remember i think it was 11am but hubby thinks 2pm im an hour away from the solicitors that are named on it and about 2 hours away from london

[applecart]

My thoughts were simply that if.... it was early morning or afternoon; then it could be feasable to nip to a solicitor and swear the oath and then register post it to High Court (which would guarantee next day delivery)... But still a big question mark over same day - because if it was after 1.00pm and it arrived at High court on the same day -they would not register it until the next day anyway.

 

If it is received by High Court before 1.00 pm and the fee is paid then it seems logical that it could have been stamped the same day - but that LBL Agent must have been going some to do all that process between 11.00 and 1.00 pm hey?... LOL

 

Do you think he may have faxed it to the Solicitor who then faxed it to the High Court???? - Amazing!!! Superman sell your cloak LOL

[applecart]

Everytime i phoned i got told its £40 for the search and copy of the full BOS, i do have my front page, but i dont have the statement bit, i dont suppose it matters to my case however, but it would be nice to have it and to see what it says.

 

You should only ever have to pay £40 if you do not know the reference No of the Bill of Sale or the names of the parties that it refers to.

 

If you have this information the fee is £5.00 - If you have the front page, then at least you know the parties to the Bill of Sale - ring up the High Court - tell them you know the 'parties' to the Bill of Sale and ask if they would be willing to do a search on that alone for a fee of £5.00 - worth a try I would have thought?

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi guys

Apple the answer to your qurstion is possible three date.

 

1. When the BOS was signed and CA.

2. When the doc were sworn could be another date

3. When its resented at the HQ to Stamp it.

 

The answer to the faxing the doc. NO defininatly not.

The BOS act is very precise on what doc are presented for the HC stamp.

And most defininatly the HC would only stamp the original signed on the day and not a copy of any kind.

 

There is only one BOS doc.

 

That would have to travel from where the Documents were signed by borrower and the witness (not the rep) then that very same document(4 pages.

Front page the paper doc with red stamp signed Affitdavit

 

Second page is the Exibit A paper. (see mine above)

 

Third pages is the Signature Borrower and witness signature

 

Back page is the other signed Affitdavit presented with the stamp on the outside of the bundle.

 

ie BOS has then got to be Sworn.

 

Then that very same document has to find its way to the HC to be Stamped.

 

I cant see such a powerful doc being faxed or emailed

 

Im in High Court on Tuesday with Wismyre. Conferance call.

 

I will find out for sure

Will keep you all posted

[Hip_Hop]

Hi Applecart,

 

first posting.

 

Have perused my Bill of sale and it is Supreme court stamped 8 days after execution (over one year ago). Copy was recently supplied directly by LBL after being requested, so I will assume theoretically, that they have not rectified it. Please can you clarify what 7 clear days under the act means, as I came across an earlier posting that defines it as working days but this definition can not be found in the relevant act. My interpretation is that it is a straight 7 days with no breaks.

 

Thanking you in advance for your assistance.

Hip_Hop

Edited August 26, 2010 by Hip_Hop
typo

[trooper68]

7 clear days, not working days, a working week is 5 days, but a BoS needs 7 clear days, from friday to friday, that includes the weekend...

[Hip_Hop]

Thank you Trooper 68 that is reassuring, so on that basis the BOS is void. With over 80 % of the log book loan market shared by the two main providers, LBL being one of the two, it would take a huge leap of faith to convince a judge that this was simply a small oversight on their part 8 days instead of 7? Would obviously be helpful to establish what if any, other BOS void elements there are, from posters on here to solidify my claim.

 

Obvbiously the CCA agreement which was secured by a BOS will now be unsecured if the BOS is upheld as void. I assume the CCA still stands alone as a debt owed and that there are remedies open to LBL to get a possible judgement against mefor recovery of outstanding debt?

Edited August 26, 2010 by Hip_Hop
Typo's

[cctv engineer]

Thank you Trooper 68 that is reassuring, so on that basis the BOS is void. With over 80 % of the log book loan market shared by the two main providers, LBL being one of the two, it would take a huge leap of faith to convince a judge that this was simply a small oversight on their part 8 days instead of 7? Would obviously be helpful to establish what if any, other BOS void elements there are, from posters on here to solidify my claim.

 

Obvbiously the CCA agreement which was secured by a BOS will now be unsecured if the BOS is upheld as void. I assume the CCA still stands alone as a debt owed and that there are remedies open to LBL to get a possible judgement against mefor recovery of outstanding debt?

 

 

a bill of sale can have 8 days. if you look at the date stamped it will be a monday. a bill of sale is not allowed to be stamped on a sunday.

[Hip_Hop]

CCTV, the date stamped is a Wednesday......

[cctv engineer]

CCTV, the date stamped is a Wednesday......

 

what day did you sign it ???

[Hip_Hop]

Tuesday.

[cctv engineer]

Tuesday.

so if you signed on tuesday it will then need to go to a solicitors i.e wednesday.

 

who is the solicitor on the bill of sale. ???

[Hip_Hop]

It's still 8 days regardless of the day that the solicitor signed, no?

 

Regarding solicitor details, could you Please pm me as this is a public forum that is monitored by LBL and I don't want to reveal my identity by publicly revealing the solicitor used and thereby my true identity. Could you PM me and I will give solicitor details etc.

Your void BOS tips would be helpful please.

[hoff135]

if you signed it on a tuesday and the bos is dated that day, then it would need to be registered with the supreme court by tuesday of next week.

 

the only reason it would be stamped 8 days and be valid, is if the seventh day fell on a sunday.

[Hip_Hop]

Thanks Hoff 135. It reaffirms basically what CCTV stated earlier in the thread except in my case my BOS wasn't date stamped Monday so it is void. The 8 day, non stamping on Sunday that you and CCTV have stated can allow BOS's 8 days is not some thing I can confirm but will bow to your greater knowledge unless someone has greater knowledge.

I am just pleased that , that anomoly will not need clarifying in my case.

 

As CCTV wrote earlier, "a bill of sale can have 8 days. if you look at the date stamped it will be a monday. a bill of sale is not allowed to be stamped on a sunday."

Edited August 26, 2010 by Hip_Hop
typo

[cctv engineer]

if you signed it on a tuesday and the bos is dated that day, then it would need to be registered with the supreme court by tuesday of next week.

 

the only reason it would be stamped 8 days and be valid, is if the seventh day fell on a sunday.

 

 

a bill of sale 7 clear days. is from the solicitor attesting the bill of sale to being stamped at the court.

 

what you have to remember is that its the supreme court that checks the bill of sale before stamping. they are NOT going to stamp out of date bill of sales

[hoff135]

oh well i dont know, my solicitor told me that it was the date of the bos that was important, not the affidavit, one of the reasons lbl gave up. But of course i am not qualified to say for sure.

[Hip_Hop]

I don't agree with your interpretation CCTV that "Every bill of sale shall be duly attested, and shall be registered under the principal Act within seven clear days after the execution thereof" relates to date solicitor attested the BOS

 

I agree with Hoff and put the emphasis on " Every bill of sale shall be duly attested, and shall be registered under the principal Act within seven clear days after the execution thereof," and not within 7 clear days of the date after every attestation.

 

CCTV, if you are aware of any caselaw that reaffirms your interpretation, that would be extremely helpful to all.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Hip_Hop
revision

[trooper68]

Regardless, 7 clear days, the word you need to clock is "attested" it this instance...

Say the BoS was processed and was sitting on the desk of a SOL, and lands on the desk of the High Court on the 8th day, void simple, the process was not attested.

Now if it was sitting on the desk on a Sunday at the High Court...then monday was a bank holiday, then the tuesday would count as the 7th day...

 

Which is bang on hip hop and hoff has stated, I asked why (my barrister) he said the law in a sense is a no entity, AAAAH what???, he said, theres God then Man then the Court....No more higher power than God and as Sunday is Gods day....I know i know....scr*wed with my head too.

 

This was part of my case -still awaiting the criminal outcome...

 

trooper68

[applecart]

a bill of sale can have 8 days. if you look at the date stamped it will be a monday. a bill of sale is not allowed to be stamped on a sunday.

 

Yes; this is true - but there are considerations for why, when and how this would occur - but essentially the strict rule is 7 days.

 

To follow through on this - A bill of Sale will be stamped on the 8th day if the 7th day was a bank holiday or a day when the HCJ was officially closed. To justify this; the lender would have to be able to substantiate this in a court of law - because the Law quite clearly states 7 days - no if's, no but's.

 

In stamping a Bill of Sale outside of the 7 days - the HCJ does this 'without prejudice' - this means; they do not intend for the registration to be relied upon in court - if it is within the 7 days or on the 7th day - this can be relied upon. so; any lender who is suggesting that a bill of sale that falls outside the 7 day ruling is a valid document and enforceable - would be totally wrong!

 

Take this one step further - the onus is on the lender to register within the 7 days - if they do not do it - then they leave themselves open to a document that whilst it may be registered - it will not be enforceable.

[applecart]

It's still 8 days regardless of the day that the solicitor signed, no?

 

Regarding solicitor details, could you Please pm me as this is a public forum that is monitored by LBL and I don't want to reveal my identity by publicly revealing the solicitor used and thereby my true identity. Could you PM me and I will give solicitor details etc.

Your void BOS tips would be helpful please.

 

Again; the point you make Hip Hop is correct - registration of the Bill of Sale does not include the time and date that a solicitor gets the affidavit from the lender - it starts from the day the Bill of Sale is 'executed' - i.e 'signed by both you and the lender

[Hip_Hop]

Thanks Applecart for reaffirming the correct point of the stop watch of 7 clear days starts from Bill of Sale being signed by the individual and the Lender and not the date/time that the Bill of Sale is subsequently sworn in front of a Commissioner of Oaths/Solicitor.

 

Clarity is helpful when one is looking for advice/support , especially on a forum such as this one, so a big thank you.

 

Incidentally, has anyone seen any posting that corroborates, where the BOS has been made void/unenforeceable in court for being outside of the 7 prescribed clear days?

 

I ask, as there are lots of comments in threads, that a BOS is void/unenforceable, but , in my opinion, only a judge can legally make the judgment that a BOS is enforceable or not. There appears no evidence to back the theory that simply being registered late , irespective of it subsequently not being rectified, will result in a judge awarding the BOS being made unenforceable/Void. Just because the act states that it must be registered within 7 clear days, doesn't necessarily make it void/unenforceable it would appear? If it was, LBL would be returning all vehicles or reimbursing those whose vehicles had been auctioned with a full value refund/compensation package should a BOS be registered outside that as prescribed in the act. Again I can find no evidence of this.

 

That is why i believe it is not helpful to say simply that a BOS that has been registered outside of its prescribed 7 clear days as detailed in the act is therefore void/unenforceable without backing these statements up with hard evidence that stands up under scruitiny. Otherwise the advice appears hollow.

.

I have asked myself, has anyone pointed to any legal precedent that is case law and supports this theory that simply being registered outside of 7 clear days AUTOMATICALLY will result in a judge legally making that BOS void/uneforceable and the answer is unfortunately no. I have searched high and low but can not find any.

 

I am asking because my BOS was registered outside of the prescribed 7 days and I can find no evidenceof a successful legal challenge in a court, that has been tested against LBL. Anyone know of one?

 

I have read that LBL have rescinded court action, the chase etc, where a number of issues have been put to them but none where they have agreed to stop any action as a consequence of just a BOS being registered outside of the 7 clear dayformulae?

 

Anyone?

 

 

Again; the point you make Hip Hop is correct - registration of the Bill of Sale does not include the time and date that a solicitor gets the affidavit from the lender - it starts from the day the Bill of Sale is 'executed' - i.e 'signed by both you and the lender

Edited September 19, 2010 by Hip_Hop
revision