DVLA Failure to notify new keeper fine court case dropped

[Spotswood]

They are also very sly, they are not attempting to prosecute me, they are "recovering a debt", my sin, not declaring SORN 2 months after I sold the car and notified them.

 

They are nasty bullies, top and bottom of it, thanks for your words of support. I will have to travel a long way to court, I work away from home, I have never been in court in my life. I will hopefully get costs

[Dragons Dennis]

You can have the case transferred to your local court.

[crem]

You can have the case transferred to your local court.

 

As far as I know, the case will automatically be transferred to your local court once you notify them you are defending the action. Doesn't hurt to re-iterate it though I guess.

[Dragons Dennis]

I wasn't aware it automatically transfers, useful info there Mr crem thanks. We both agree though and that was the point, you don't need to travel a long way. Just to your local county court.

[Spotswood]

This is the written defence I am making in regard of the forthcoming Court Action. Please feel free to add any suggestions or correct spelling or grammar

I have fulfilled my obligation to DVLA by informing them in March 2010 that I was no longer the Registered Keeper of Vehicle XXXXXXX.

On the 02 March 2010 I traded this vehicle in exchange for another vehicle at XXXXXXX Motor Trader. On that day I posted the relevant yellow tabbed section of Vehicle XXXXXX V5 document off by first class post to DVLA Swansea therefore fulfilling my obligations to DVLA in regard of that vehicle.

The DVLA’s Late Licencing Penalty notice in respect of vehicle XXXXXX is invalid. I have had continuing correspondence with them in regard to this matter where I have fully explained my position several times. I was not in a position to relicence or SORN this vehicle in May 2010 as I was no longer the keeper of this vehicle and had informed them of such two months previously.

I am aware of the importance of maintaining a robust system of vehicle registration and have bought and sold several vehicles during my lifetime. I have fulfilled my obligations on every occasion including this one, indeed I would be stupid not to, as I may become liable for traffic offences or suspected any potential criminal activity associated with that vehicle.

I believe the DVLA are acting “ultra vires” in this instance. They have not proved I did not notify them of change of keeper in respect of vehicle XXXXXX, they cannot because I did post the form. The terms of the Interpretation Act 1978 support my case, and there is not a legal obligation upon me to chase up the DVLA should they not acknowledge receipt of my communication with them.

[TheRaven]

same thing with the one they sent me - although i sent the v5 to the insurance company as the car was a w/o and they dealt with it all, they never received it. i also only reiceved confirmation that the car was being driven in may, which it states do nothing if this is the case... next thing i get a summons with no previous letter asking for a settlement out of court... can i also use the templates on this site to send them a letter? its disgusting how they treat people. going to contact a lawyer too as im not being bullied in court... does it also show up on your criminal convictions list?

Edited October 11, 2010 by TheRaven

[letsgetitsorted]

hi Snooplotty

many thanks for the post, like you and many others i have received a penalty from DVLA, this was for failing to notify them of change of keeper, and also requesting back tax.

 

i have written to them, got standard letter back so now i have written to them including the points that you put in your letter (thank you)

see what happens now..cheers again

[cosmicgirl8]

Congratulations on your victory! Had you already been issued with a court summons, as my 19 year old daughter has and she DID notify DVLA of the sale of her car!

[letsgetitsorted]

well i had a response back, they say i still have to pay,

they state in the letter that they do not have to send an acknowledgment letter the same as jo public does not have to contat them if they do not get such letter.

they also went on the defence whith the interpritation act, saying that i acused them of breaching it....

 

so they ant even read a letter properly...anyway another letter fired off, see what this one brings afterall i told them to take me to magistrates court as acording to them i broke the law....

 

see what happens

[Spotswood]

Hi there you all, just to let you know, I was summonsed to County Court as I said on here, appeared and the DVLA did not, so case dismissed, a bit ****ed off at being messed about and feel they behaved as a bully, particularly as they didn't have the bottle to show. Didn't claim expenses as there were none really. There's a bit of me that wants to pursue them.

[letsgetitsorted]

i would send them an invoice for your time taken to deal with this nonesense.... i sent them an invoice for the letters that i had written and they dropped the charge/claim..

Glad you had this dismissed, it just goes to show that they didnt have a leg to stand on, or they would have showed.

 

well done

[postggj]

QUOTE

 

Had court today. DVLA lost, courts seen it as a joke that dvla were taking this to court. The dvla now use the interpretation act as their defence. They use an extended version of the interpretation act and use the term delivered as there defense as we can not prove a letter is delivered by sending it.

 

SO DVLA ARE USING THE ABOVE NOW

 

WHAT COUNTER ARGUMENT CAN WE SAY TO THE JUDGE IN COURT WHEN THE PROSECUTOR FROM DVLA USE THE ABOVE LINE FOR FUTURE CAGGERS

[Raykay]

Any idea what their 'extended version' is?

 

The instructions on the V5C are that the registered keeper must return the completed page to DVLA, they then give a postal address, so they must be expecting it by post.

 

If they are claiming that s. 7, Interpretation 1978 does not apply because you 'failed to notify' or 'failed to deliver' rather than you 'failed to send the document', obviously sending the document is how you notify them - s.7 is quite clear - if the document is required to be sent, and it is sent by pre paying and posting a letter containing the document, unless the contrary is proved, it is deemed to be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

So DVLA have to prove that is was not sent, if they cannot, it is deemed to have been delivered, what they do with it is their problem, not the sender's.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Raykay

[postggj]

many thanks:-)

[paul kennedy]

Thank you for your letter I wish I had read it before I went to court because I lost but I am convinced only narrowly so am considering an appeal. would you mind contacting me because I cannot send pms yet. Regards

[calvins_media]

Seriously Huge Thank You

 

i had the same court summons (failure to notify change of registered keeper or whatever it is...

 

received the court summons on the 01/02/12 to go to court on the 16/02/12 so i googled it found this forum copied and pasted adsaculy what snooplotty had typed up with a few little edits to dates ect ect

 

then the day before the court hearing i receive a letter which reads

 

 

 

Dear mr james c********

 

in view of the further information received, it is the angency's intention to withdraw the charge

against you for the hearing at cambridge court on 16/02/12. in relation to the alleged

offence concerning motor vehical e453***

 

consequently, it will not be necessery for you to attend the hearing on that date.

 

should you need to contact us, please quote the registration mark of the vehical

 

signed

 

enforcemant officer

on behalf of the secretary of state for transport

 

I LOVE YOU SNOOPY LOTTY

 

UP YOURS DVLA...:whoo::lol::x

[Tony P]

YET AGAIN ... they just will not face up to a challenge in the Courtroom.

I am happy for you calvins_media but it still leaves open the whole problem.

How many were listed for the same day who they continued to prosecute for EXACTLY the same, but only because the 'victims' either failed to appear or knew nothing of the DVLA s-c-a-m?

Very many, I bet!!

[Number6]

Sorry, in a way, to reopen this old thread but my case is at the appeal court tomorrow.

 

My own thread on the case is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345228-Failure-to-notify.-Another-case!

[stammatis]

Firstly I think you guys who have challenged the DVLA and then helped others on this site are deserving of a lot of respect.

I am now in the same boat, been driving for 44 years and not one tiny little error to my name. Yet Inter Credit International have sent me a letter 3 YEARS from the date of the ALLEGED offence.

Inter Credit International have a serious attitude problem. I phoned them to ask basic questions and they will not answer the questions, in every case the person on the phone was a hard nosed, obnoxious barrier to my trying o get answers and help which would benefit me as a person possibly facing a court case.

Why dont we as a group form a focus group intent on scrutinising Inter Credit International and the DVLA procedures. I am happy to join that group if anyone is interested. We could even form a website specifically for this purpose.

I am challenging the DVLA (ref SORN issue) my main contention is that NO ONE in DVLA or ICI help you on simple matters relevant to my case.

If there is anyone out there who is willing to concentrate on said matters please let me know.

I would appreciate any help I can get. I do have a legal mind, but I am not a qualified practitioner of the law.

[nehpets]

Stan,

 

Your best bet would be to start your own thread where you can outline the individual aspects of your case so that others can pick up on things and offer advice.

 

I've had personal dealings with Inter Credit International (ICI) and I also found them to be very rude. All they seemed interested in was processing my payment. When I said that I wouldn't be paying them they turned quite hostile. However, once I raised issues regarding their processes (I asked how they had double checked that the alleged debt existed) their stance changed a little. I specified to them that I didn't believe any such debt existed and as such them sending me a letter stating that a debt did exist was an illegal act on their part. They promptly said that they'd be returning the matter to the DVLA. When I asked ICI for the contact details for their regulator they hung-up. Job done and ICI never contacted me again.

 

The DVLA should be able to provide you with some specifics regarding your case. If it's a SORN issue then it should be very straight forward - that they have recorded a gap of some kind in the Continuous Registration of the stated vehicle. Most of the time this gap appears to be down to the DVLA's inability to process the paperwork correctly. If you sent the DVLA the correct paperwork then it is down to the DVLA to prove that you didn't. Of course, as we all know, the DVLA will try and see things the other way, that it is your job to prove that you sent the paperwork. However, the law is on our side and ultimately the DVLA will have a mountain to climb to prove any of these cases.

 

The bottom line is that you don't need to be qualified to beat the DVLA, you simply need to establish exactly what your defence is against their allegations.

[stammatis]

Thanks for your response to my comments. I think you are probably right ref challenging them myself with exchange input on this thread.

There must be a way of getting right to the jugular of Inter Credit - I have never in my life been so angry on the telephone. The person must have been a psychopath because there was no shift in attitude regardless of what angle I tried to explore. This is not good enough.

I will be writing to the Minister For Transport and Trading Standards.

I will take some time to analyse the comments in other posts then formulate my action plan.

If you have any specific tips I will be glad to hear them.

Thanks again for your reply- Nehpets.

Stammatis

[Buxtongooner]

Update 7th November 2012 Now have had a reply from DVLA even though I have given my defence stating nothing has changed. Good. Await court summons. Does anyone know of any cases that have actually gone to appeal at the Crown Court?? If so would be grateful for the outcome and case number. I suspect not because if the DVLA lost it would be a stated case stopping them from prosecuting people if they have posted or delivered the V5 Thanks

[Raykay]

There is this one, where the conviction was upheld http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345228-Failure-to-notify.-Another-case!/page5

[nehpets]

Update 7th November 2012 Now have had a reply from DVLA even though I have given my defence stating nothing has changed. Good. Await court summons. Does anyone know of any cases that have actually gone to appeal at the Crown Court?? If so would be grateful for the outcome and case number. I suspect not because if the DVLA lost it would be a stated case stopping them from prosecuting people if they have posted or delivered the V5 Thanks

 

 

As I've said on a number of occasions, talking through your defence with party who is taking you to court isn't always a wise course of action!

[Buxtongooner]

Thanks for the responses guys. I am going to take this all the way. The DVLA know I am a Police Officer with over 25 years of experience as I submitted a "Police Statement" on the forms that everyone who is a witness to a crime would sign. I also sent them a letter similar to other people on this site rightly or wrongly stating my defence case. I dont see a problem with this as the DVLA are well aware of the defence used but still press ahead. I am pretty confident that they will take me all the way. The research I have done hinges on the interpretation of s. 7, Interpretation 1978 and down to whether "post" or "sent" is within the spirit of the act and is deemed the same as "deliver". Most people who have attended court and actually gone to trial have won. However, there are a small number of people who have lost. Further more I have found one person (see RayKay's post above) who appealed to the Crown Court and lost. I am surprised at this as the DVLA were risking everything on this as had they lost they there would be a stated case! The DVLA seem to have changed tact - and it comes down to "post and deliver". One thing I will be relying on is the word deliver which does not appear of the V5 log book. It says "return" and gives the address - DVLA Swansea and a postcode only. This more than implies that the DVLA want you to post it rather than deliver it - which would mean all of us turning up and the DVLA physically to hand over our V5's. I will be asking what provisions the DVLA has to receive thousands of people turning up in person! My research so far implies that send and post are the same. I am going to get some legal advice before I attend court from the Police Federation Legal Assistance Scheme so I will keep you updated.