Link Financial -ford credit return of goods order - lost

[olympic1805]

Hi,

Just checked and yes it is a HP Agreement ?????

[comebackjimmy]

OK thanks for the clarification.

 

However, my point, subject to clarification, is that a regulated agreement has a maximum value of £25000. If you have been funded to the tune of £33000 it should not have been a regulated agreement.

 

Having said that the new act may have changed that.

[olympic1805]

Hi, what does this mean ?? sorry for appearing a bit stupid ?

[comebackjimmy]

Hi. Never fear, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

 

The consumer credit act of 1974 defined loan agreements as being of two types; regulated and unregulated. I do not myself know the full legal definitions of the two types of agreement but basically a regulated agreement was a loan agreement subject to provisions of the 1974 act and was taken out for amounts under £25000. A non-regulated agreement was for amounts over £25000 or for limited companies.

 

Depending upon how much the agreement was for, and whether the debtor was a limited company or not a different document/form would be used for the agreement.

 

My question therefore, and as I said earlier, I hope it is not a red herring, is, how are you able to have a regulated agreement for an amount greater than £25000? Under the old act an amount of £33000 would be a non-regulated agreement. I do not know what the new act says or the dates that apply.

 

I would have thought that as your agreement was for £33000 it would be an unregulated agreement and the document you signed ought not to say it was a regulated agreement. I wonder if it has been transacted on the wrong form and if, as a consequence, it is enforceable.

 

It would be interesting to see what other CAGers say, and I apologize if I am taking this thread away from the core issues.

[olympic1805]

The consumer credit act of 1974 defined loan agreements as being of two types; regulated and unregulated. I do not myself know the full legal definitions of the two

 

Hi, it defo is a Regulated, and the amount cash was £26995, with interest total payable £33144.08, and like I said earlier there is only £8K outstanding ? Any suggestions as to what I should do ?

[emandcole]

My question therefore, and as I said earlier, I hope it is not a red herring, is, how are you able to have a regulated agreement for an amount greater than £25000? Under the old act an amount of £33000 would be a non-regulated agreement. I do not know what the new act says or the dates that apply.

 

I would have thought that as your agreement was for £33000 it would be an unregulated agreement and the document you signed ought not to say it was a regulated agreement. I wonder if it has been transacted on the wrong form and if, as a consequence, it is enforceable.

 

Referring to the Consumer Credit Act 2006:

 

Before section 17 of the 1974 Act insert—

“16B Exemption relating to businesses

 

(1) This Act does not regulate—

(a) a consumer credit agreement by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit exceeding £25,000, or

(b) a consumer hire agreement that requires the hirer to make payments exceeding £25,000,

if the agreement is entered into by the debtor or hirer wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried on, or intended to be carried on, by him.

 

 

This would suggest that the £25,000 limit still applies for it to be a regulated agreement. As for the point about the agreement being for £33,000 this can still be a regulated agreement as it is the amount borrowed and not the Total Amount Payable (A Prescribed Term) that is important.

 

 

 

As long as the amount of credit falls within the regulated agreement amount the loan can still be regulated even if you pay back far more than the regulated amount upper limits. It is therefore very important to ensure that the amount of credit you are paying is correct.

 

 

 

In cases where the credit provider is arguing that the agreement is not regulated because it is over the financial limit and the client therefore lacks protection under the Consumer Protection Act 1974, it will be important to check whether the amount of credit supplied is within the financial limit. If the credit supplied includes charges which should have been part of the Total Charge for Credit, this will falsely inflate the price and should be challenged, if the credit supplied is thereby taken over the financial limit.

 

Hope that helps a bit

[frettful38]

Excellently explained emandcole

[olympic1805]

If I get the Agreement scanned and put on, can someone please take a look ???

[olympic1805]

Hi,

I have just received a 'Letter before Action' from Link Financial telling me they are going to take us to court within 48 hours ? Any advice what to do now !!

[emandcole]

Ok. Link are stupid enough to issue proceedings, they do it on mass and worry about legalities and paperwork only if the defendant 'has the gall ' to defend. Only then do they even start to review the case and make decisions on how to proceed. It's all backwards but the judicial system has never been very advanced, despite the self imposed pomp and grandeur .

 

Having had a quick skip through the post I didn't see any default notices posted. First off, do you have one and if so we need to know the details asap.

[olympic1805]

hi, well hopefully here goes, this shoud be the default notice 2 pages, will also try and get the Agreement on,

 

Are these readable by people ???? as you can tell I am a NEWBIE to this, and still get lost round this site and my own PC ha ha. I thought I had scanned them like others do, but havent come out like that ??

Agreement next !

 

Agreement ! hopefully

 

Are people able to enlarge this, if not can anyone adice what i'm doing wrong ? thanks

default page 1.rtf

default page 2.rtf

[emandcole]

Hi Olympic, best to use a host site such as photobucket as the images will show much better. Find it at:

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

Scan them to there and give us the links.

 

As for the default notice have you removed the information about how much they want you to pay and the date they want this default amount by? Can't find it on the default provided and there are a huge number of typo's on there - is this really what they sent you?

 

Also interested in the fact that by sending you a default they are suggesting this is a regulated agreement as a non regulated agreement doesn't (I believe) requite such a notice...would have to check on that.

 

Can you confirm the amount of credit as a re-cap, this isn't the total charge for credit, just the amount borrowed at the start to buy the car/the showroom price of the car itself.

[olympic1805]

Hi, okay i've put images onto photobucket, but not sure how you put the link on here ??? will try.

Re credit amounts, you hopefully will be able to see more clearly, and i got it wrong. Total cash price was £26,995. but we had put in cash and px of £6500., making the amount of credit £20,495. then charge for credit was £6149.08, balance payable £26,644.08 and TOTAL amount payable £33,144.08, so think I have got it wrong with which figures to use. Anyhow hopefully heres the links, do I get in touch with Link or wait for it to go court ?? There letter says 48 hours they needa response ??

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae242/olympic1805/consumer%20action%20-/26-03-2010164828.jpg

 

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae242/olympic1805/consumer%20action%20-/26-032010164654.jpg

 

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae242/olympic1805/consumer%20action%20-/landroveragreement.jpg

[emandcole]

Hi, bottom two links don't seem to work...top one fine.

[olympic1805]

hi, sorry still learning with this !!

 

 

 

 

 

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae242/olympic1805/consumer%20action%20-/landroveragreement.jpg

Edited July 8, 2010 by olympic1805

[emandcole]

Thats ok. Have you checked your credit files to see if and when any default has been registered? Would be your next move right now...I'm going to run something by a few others, will come back when I've checked a thought or two

[emandcole]

Has the agreement ran full term? If so what should have been the last payment date?

[olympic1805]

Has the agreement ran full term? If so what should have been the last payment date?

Hi emandcole,

Will check my credit files, re the last payment date, it was all a big 'C...U.'with Landrover (pardon the language)

The last payment date was around Oct 08, at which time we had a balloon to pay off or we could have returned the car,

 

we initially tried to raise the finance to pay of the vehicle but was refused(our credit history by then was not very good at all )

I rang Landrover Dealership he told me that we had to wait until the agreement date had passed.

When the date had passed and I rang them to collect the car because we could not raise the money they said it was too late for that option, and if we couldnt pay it would be transferred to Link,

 

however for about 12 months we seemed to go off their radar (was hoping they had forgot us !) did not get a phone call or letter, or anything, but

then Landrover Finance got intouch, I asked if we could make payments they said no it would go to link, so we thought okay when it goes to Link we will ask them if we can make payments ! and as my first post first contact with Link was a NO, I offered to pay them £2K and then time to pay the rest, but they wanted it all immediately, he said they could maybe give us few weeks.

[emandcole]

Ok, have found that they can issue a combined default and termination notice if the agreement has run its course in full. As you say the last payment would have been the balloon amount in October 2008 and the combined default and termination notice was dated December 2008 it seems, from my understanding anyway, that they have acted correctly.

 

I would of course advise further research on this in case there is something in the detail that I am not aware of as not so familiar with this type of issue.

 

Have you had confirmation that Link have bought the debt or are they merely collecting it? From what I've read, and again this is just mt take on it, it seems that at this stage there is a limited amount you can do, assuming of course that the previous actions are all correct and in order.

 

If that is the case and Link move to litigation there are then a number of avenues you can explore as Link are famously poor at document retention, preservation and general organisation. If this is the case here as well you will be able to use it to your advantage.

 

Were you not able to voluntarily terminate the agreement yourself and just hand the car back? Interested to read that the LandRover representative stated that 'it was too late' for that to happen. Not sure on this but isn't that the point of a voluntary termination?

 

I know dealers do not like this to happen but it is a right you have and one that could have led to an avoidance of further difficulty and potential litigation. Just some advice based on thoughts, which may not amount to anytihng but I would look into the rules surrounding voluntary termination and if you've been misled that would surely be useful for you.

 

If I find anything of use I'll get back to you but keep reading up on things yourself as the more you know the better off you'll be.

 

The moment Link issue papers let us know and you can start to gather the documentation you'll need, be an opportunity to examine the relationship between LandRover and Link as quite often there can be issues with the transfer/assignment of any debt.

[olympic1805]

Hi, the letter form Link says they have been assigned the debt ?? not sure what that means, but as a result of this assignment our debt is now owed to Link.

With regards the dealership they were no help at all , and had misled us on the actual dates and details of us wishing to give the car back.

If this goes to court, would we also be liable for the court costs ?? or would the court give us time to pay and keep the car ??

[olympic1805]

Hi, just wondering whether I should write back to Link, the letter they sent is worded below:

 

"Link Financial Outsourcing has attempted to negotiate with you the repayment of the above account. We have been unsuccessful in these negotiations.

We will therefore commence proceedings in the County Court for the return of the goods subject to the above Agreement.

Proceedings will be issued within the next 48 hours if we have no response from you.

Please contact us on telephone 02920808698 as a matter of urgency "

 

Shall I write back and try to re negotiate paym,ent terms, or just ignore it ??

Still a bit worried that legal cost will then be added on to this debt ??

Any help would be grateful

thanks

[emandcole]

Hi. First of all best not to ignore anything, at the same time do not speak to them on the phone as it's pointless so keep everything in writing from this point forward.

 

Still very concerned about this whole issue of you not being able to return the car.

Far as I understand it generally speaking when a car term comes to an end and you're left with a balloon payment

 

you normally have the option to either

pay the balloon figure and keep the car (finanace or otherwise),

exchange the car for a new one and start the whole process again with monthly payments,

or return the car and walk away (subject to car mileage and condition etc, for which you'd expect to pay for any excess or damage according to a pre-determined rate).

 

So, if I've got that right why didn't LandRover allow you to give the car back at the end of the term?

 

Also, it would be helpful if you could state what you'd be happy to do

- eg do you just want to give the car back and have done with it?

 

Link unfortunately are a bunch of (insert your own choice word here) and have zero respect for how things should be done properly, hence the possibility that they may mess this whole matter up and give you an opportunity to exploit that in court.

 

Of course they might actually do things correctly for a change but as they're already launching into litigation with their usual haste it appears not.

 

To answer your earlier post about the debt being sold to Link an equitable assignment is a 'right' to collect the debt on behalf of the creditor (eg LandRover instruct their mutt to bark at you and LandRover still own the debt).

 

Alternatively the assignment is an absolute one meaning Link buy the entire debt from LandRover (for a paltry percentage of it's actual debt value) and then come chasing you with LandRover having no further interests in the debt.

 

Can you confirm that LandRover have registered the default they sent you with a Credit Reference Agency? This is very important so please try and find that out, you can access your credit file for free with a temporary membership giving you enough time to print the information and then cancel so you don't get charged.

 

Secondly, have you made a formal complaint to the dealership who you believe misguided you. When you wanted to hand the vehicle back why were you not allowed to do so?

Who told you this and why?

If you can show you were mislead it will have an impact on any litigation Link start.

 

 

A fully documented complaint will also help you and if you have grounds for further complaint Trading Standards could come into play, thus strengthening your position considerably in the event that your complaint is upheld.

 

When the date had passed and I rang them to collect the car because we could not raise the money they said it was too late for that option, and if we couldnt pay it would be transferred to Link, however for about 12 months we seemed to go off their radar (was hoping they had forgot us !) did not get a phone call or letter, or anything, but then Landrover Finance got intouch, I asked if we could make payments they said no it would go to link, so we thought okay when it goes to Link we will ask them if we can make payments !

 

Just what were LandRover doing for 12 months?

Did they not attempt to take any payment?

Were you not contacted at all?

This is bizarre.

[olympic1805]

Hi Emandcole,

Firstly just checked for default again and I had stupidly signed up for myself, and car is in husbands name (thought it would still appear cos were linked, so gonna sign up for his later and check)

 

Just to say we are also desperate to keep the car, as it is the only one we have now (used to have 3 vehicles, them were the days !!)

 

Anyhow to answer afew questions,

when we knew the Agreement was coming up,

we tried financing with Landrover, got refused,

then tried to get a loan, got refused.

 

At the time the dealership said we had to wait until AFTER the end agreement date.

When we couldnt raise the money we rang the dealership to say we were gonna have to give it back (we could not see any other option) then Llandrover Finance told me it was too late to give back, we should have agreed this BEFORE the agreement end.

 

I was livid ,(cos by then we accepted we could buy a cheaper car for a lot less then the shortfall on the Jeep) got back intouch with the dealership, played holy hell with them, but to no avail, then pushed me back onto Finance.

 

From the start of this I was not aware that a ballloon figure would become payable, I thought once the term ended the car was paid for, again stupidly did not take it all in.

 

As for the time lapse, checked the notes on the SAR, and our last payment of £800 was made on 26/1/09, did not hear anything then until 13/3/09 by telephone, then mothing until 12/11/09, on the SAR notes they have put it was their error had passed to customer services as not in debt manager, so then we went off there systems for some reason.

 

I know we should have contacted them, but at this time we lost 2 parents within 3 weeks of each other, and hoping we had gone off their system !!.

 

In our defence though this account was paid from Aug 04 to June 08, but then we started to get into financial difficulties.

 

Just a quick note on the SAR looks like link bought the debt for £3064.64, theres a transaction amount of that much on file.

[emandcole]

Ok, there would have been a record of these applications taking place, just wondering if you can get hold of them or if your credit files will show that these companies accessed your credit file in order to assess you for credit.

 

This would show you attempted to raise the cash in line with the LandRover response that you couldn't yet hand the car back as the agreement hadn't expired. Accordingly you attempted to raise funds in order to make the payment and keep the car, but couldn't.

 

So, once the agreement had ended you then went to hand the car back (as you had been unable to raise the funds) and were then told another story that ultimately has left you struggling to pay for a car you had originally intended quite responsibly to hand back.

 

Irespective of what the dealer may have said if you are unable to meet the payments you had a right (I'm pretty sure) to voluntarily terminate the agreement and hand the goods back.

 

I would be making a serious complaint to the dealership and Trading Standards about this. As a result of what has been a clear lie you have now been exposed to a potentially difficult situation that could be very costly.

 

It seems obvious the dealership didn't want the car on their hands, likely due to the economic climate and the fuel guzzling nature of the vehicle, which I suspect is harder to re-sell that a conventional car and instead chose to tell you a load of porkies.

 

As for the amount Link seem to have paid for the debt I would consider their potential claim for however much they're demanding amounts to nothing less than undue enrichment. Could be a good argument.

 

Can you remind us, what is the full amount Link is demanding?

[angry cat]

Please can we have an update on this!?