Help Please! House flooded -Insurance void?

[bigal9ball]

I went to my house yesterday for 1st time in about 4 or 5 days and all downstairs was under about 8 inches of water! I turned stop cock off turned electric off and rang insurance company ( lloyds tsb ) to tell them?

Lady on the other end of the phone said has the property ever been rented out and i said yes and she said we dont do insurance for rented properties? She said she would have to refer the claim to the underwriters and get back to me? In the meantime ive been into my local lloyds branch to find the branch manager who sold me the policy in oct 2008 but he is on 2 weeks holiday--The lady who dealt with me was very kind and i explained to her how i had come into the bank on that day in 2008 fuming over bank charges and i was having a go at the cashier when the manager walked past and he said can i help-He said he doesent usually deal with customers first hand but would i like to step into his office? He procceeded to calm me down about the charges and started looking at my account and said that i was a good customer and that he would waive the charges on this occassion? He then went through my direct debits and asked what buildings insurance i was paying and said that Lloyds could beat the price! So we chatted for a while and i explained to him that i had moved to Barnsley from Doncaster(25 miles) and that i was renting my house out in Doncaster--I asked him if i needed contents insurance and he said no because the tenants will sort their own out? The lady from Lloyds insurance has rung me back today to say im sorry but your policy is void and we will be returning all your premiums you have paid so far! Well i went ballistic down the phone and told her to stick her premiums and that this is a right cop-out on their part? She said i must have been mis-sold the policy and i needed to take it up with my local branch? As you can imagine my head is in bits and im at my wits end--Dont know my next move? Ive got a meeting on monday in my local branch to start a complaints procedure against the insurance company but frankly i think its a waste of time--Would just like to know if theirs another angle to approach this from---Thankyou

[Mossycat]

There are a number of options available to you but these only arise AFTER you go through the formal complaints procedure with Lloyds TSB.

 

From what you have said it does look like you were mis-sold something and also that Lloyds TSB were well aware that your property was rented out.

 

Don't accept a return of premiums, they were aware of your circumstances when they sold you the policy.

 

Post back when you have been through their complaints procedure and if they still refuse to deal with your claim post back with exactly what they say and we'll advise you further.

 

Mossy

[bigal9ball]

Thanks Mossycat much appreciated

[bigal9ball]

Hi Mossycat,

I went through the formal complaints procedure at Lloyds Tsb and recieved a letter saying they would investigate the complaint fully which may involve asking me further questions and they would do all this within 8 weeks! Two days later they paid all my premiums back into my bank account! I went into my local branch demanding that they take them back as i didnt want to accept them but they said it was standard procedure to re-pay premiums on a void claim and then ask me to return them if my complaint is successful? In the meantime yesterday i rang my local branch as i hadnt heard a dickie bird off either them or the insurance company in the last two weeks so i arranged an appointment with the branch manager who originally sold me the policy as i havent had the chance to speak to him personally throughout all this! Then the same afternoon the insurance company rang me and said that they had done a full investigation and they were happy that the person who sold me the policy asked me the question "is your house solely occupied by yourself and your family" and that i answered "Yes"? I told her that the only question to that relevance that i was asked was "Are you the sole owner of the property" to which i replied "Yes".

She said im sorry youre not happy about the decision sir but im afraid thats what decision weve come to--I asked her what is my next step? Do i now go against the bank for mis-selling me the policy to which she replied "we dont believe you have been mis-sold the policy because the person asked you the question and you answered "Yes" --I said so you believe their word over mine and she said thats not what i said?......I ended up putting the phone down very upset as my house is in ruins and nobody seems to care.

I phoned the FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN today (dont know if i should have done) and told them everything and they are going to write to them!

I was telling my financial advisor about this case and he said i was already on a buy-to-let insurance policy anyway and was only 2 months into it when Lloyds Tsb offered to beat their price and he has photo-copied me the policy!

All thats left to say really is was i right to ring the Ombudsman and if not whats my next move? Should i keep the meeting with the Manager next Tuesday? ...................Many Thanks.............Big Al.

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes no problem involving the FOS if Lloyds TSB have issued their final decision. But the FOS could take ages to deal with this. I have heard they are taking 6 months or more.

 

In regard to how the Insurance was arranged. Did you speak to the Insurance advisor at the company directly by phone. Or did the branch manager do this and relay the answers/questions. If it was arranged by phone Lloyds TSB may have a record of the phone calls.

 

Have you considered making a subject access request under Data Protection to Lloyds TSB Insurance, asking for a copy of all records, including any recorded telephone calls. A subject access request costs a max of £10.

 

Speak to the branch manager on Tuesday and say that you will be pursuing with the FOS, but would like to make a subject access request under Data Protection, so require all data and phone call recordings held by Lloyds TSB regarding this Insurance.

[bigal9ball]

surprise surprise the manager got his assistant to phone me to cancel the meeting and now i cant get hold of him? Im off work on friday so gonna go sit in the branch until he sees me!

[bigal9ball]

Managed to see the Branch Manager yesterday (finally!) and told him i had notified the FOS about the case and he said in that case he cant really talk to me while an investigation is on-going? He did however agree to talk to me and i outlined the whole situation to him and he said he would see what he could do if he rang the insurance dept?

In the meantime i have been made an offer of £80,000 on my house and i am seriously thinking of accepting the offer because the house is in ruins after the flood! The house was on the market for £99,950 so do i have a case for claiming for the £19,950 i will lose on the sale due to the damage caused by the flood? Any help please---Thanks

[oomyekim]

Is the property currently unoccupied? If so, for how long? Most insurance policies, including LTSB carry an exclusion for escape of water damage if the property has been unoccupied for over 30 or 60 consecutive days.

If the property was empty you have a duty to disclose that fact to the insurer as the contract is based on upmost good faith...so even disregarding the fact the home is let your claim may have been declined on this basis anyway.

 

It does seem you have been mis-sold your policy and if this is the case the insurer will be unable to cancel the policy back to the inception date. They could, however, cancel back to your last inception date, at which time you should have noticed on your renewal documents that the insurer was under the impression you occupied the property, as would have been stated on the renewal documents. They are under no obligation to continue to cover you and you will have had at least one renewal since you took the policy out.

 

Although i sympathise with your situation I do feel that you may have no choice but to accept the decline of your claim.

[unclebulgaria67]

You need to keep going, it is going to take awhile. You need to make the subject access request to Lloyds TSB Insurance to get hold of all information including recordings/transcripts of all phone calls.

 

This will help the FOS when looking into your complaint.

 

Don't be tempted to sell the house for less than it is worth. Even if the Insurance was fully valid, it would only cover the flood damage plus alternative accommodation if required. It would not cover the reduced sale price. Then there is the issue of any mortgage. If the sale does not cover the outstanding mortgage, you will be left with a debt to pay.

 

If the house was let and then unoccupied. How long was the house unoccupied for? The FOS will be wanting all information to understand the risk.

[Helford]

VERY straight questions;-

 

At the time of the flood was the house let out?

 

If no, was this property actually let out to tenants at the time that you took out the insurance originally?

 

When you discovered the flood, how long had the property been unoccupied?

 

H

[bigal9ball]

YES house had tenents in when i took out the insurance policy--as stated in my original post i already had a policy to cover having tenants but the branch manager talked me into taking out a policy with them as he said he could beat the quote-which he did!

The house was put up for sale by myself and the tenants were given 3 months notice and they had been gone about 2-3 weeks when the flood happened (definately not more than 30 days).

As for me taking a reduced offer on the house im afraid due to my financial state at the moment i have no choice as the mortgage payments are crippling me--the £80,000 offer still leaves me with enough to cover the outstanding mortgage and a bit for myself and if you could see the state of the house at present it would be a godsend for me to get out now?

[unclebulgaria67]

Do what you need to do,in that case. But before you sell the house, make sure you get a full independent report on the damage to the property. This will help you with any ongoing complaint to the FOS/Lloyds TSB.

 

You need the report, because once sold, you won't be able to get it inspected again.

 

Unless you get proof via the subject access request, I would not think you would have much success in any complaint. The FOS could take atleast 6 months to review.

[Helford]

So when the flood loss occurred, your house was NOT let out, you had retaken personal possession and were visiting it at regular intervals?

 

'Looks like LTSB have made a rod for their own back!

[bigal9ball]

The person with the £80,000 offer pulled out so not selling house as yet? Gonna do the repairs myself and put up for sale at a later date!

I will definately put in an SAR to Lloyds Tsb insurance Uncle Bulgaria-I havent heard a word off the branch manager since our little chat over a week ago even though he promised he would get back in touch? Every time i go in the branch about this case i just feel like im being fobbed off and they hope i"ll go away and forget about it? The thing is the more they do nothing the more determined i become? I am definately NOT letting this one go!

The branch manager was behind the counter this morning when i went to deposit some money--he was in casual clothing laughing and telling all his staff about how he"s going on holiday tomorrow--I could have pulled him over the counter i was that angry--He never looked at me once but he knew i was there?

What is the SAR request building up to Uncle Bulgaria? Am i eventually going to be taking Lloyds to Court?------Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

The subject access request is purely to get hold of all the information they hold on you, including recordings of phone calls.

 

If they help your cause, you put pressure on Lloyds TSB first. Don't forget the Lloyds TSB Insurance staff are not employed by LTSB. They are an Insurance provider that holds the contract. So you can make a complaint to them and also LTSB head office. Your complaint is two fold. A complaint against the Insurance bit and also a complaint against the branch manager. I take it the branch manager knew the property was let, even if he forgot to mention it to the Insurance people.

 

If no joy you can then go to the FOS, but they take time or go to a no win no fee company with all the information and see if they will help you take this to court. The FOS will not touch while any court proceedings are ongoing or have failed. But you can go to court, after any rejection by the FOS.

 

My advice is to get hold of the subject access information and then make much stronger complaints against both the Insurance and branch manager. That is two separate complaints. The complaint against the branch manager should be made to Lloyds head office.

[bigal9ball]

Thanks Again--will crack on with the SAR

[bigal9ball]

Just to let you know where i am with this case at the moment! I sent the SAR off 10 days ago via recorded delivery and im still waiting for a reply!

In the meantime ive accepted an offer on my house for £78,500 as it stands before i do the repair work! Im still going ahead with my complaint as i still feel i must have a case for monies lost on the sale of my property due to damage done by burst pipe which i couldnt afford to repair myself and insurance company refused to pay out on??

[bigal9ball]

Recieved a letter off Lloyds Tsb Insurance yesterday to say they have recieved my SAR and hope to respond in full within the 40 day time limit.

[bigal9ball]

Llloyds still havent responded to my SAR request and 40 day time limit has a few days left to run so what is my next move if they dont respond--thanks

[Surfer01]

can't really offer advice but the fact that there were no tenanst in place and you were not renting at the time is a strong plus in your favour. As long as youu keep everything in writing, I think a judge will take avery dim view of Lloyd's stance if it ever went to court.

[Endymion]

Llloyds still havent responded to my SAR request and 40 day time limit has a few days left to run so what is my next move if they dont respond--thanks

 

If they haven't responded then they are in breach of the DPA. Hers is a link to the IC's website with what to do about making a complaint....

 

Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

[bigal9ball]

Received the info off Lloyds that i requested with my SAR and must say that a lot of it goes straight over the top of my head! There is no record of phone calls between myself and Lloyds which i was led to believe there would be?

There seems to have been a lot of communication between Lloyds Insurance and Lloyds Bank concerning my case but none of it at any time involved communication with myself which i find astounding as how can they get an accurate account of my case without asking me the appropriate questions?

There is a letter to the bank from the insurance company asking for an account of how i was sold the policy and did they ask the question "is the property to be insured occupied solely by yourself" to which they state i answered "yes"? The person who replied to the letter isnt even the person who sold me the policy and i was never ever asked that question!

I was talking to a customer of mine whos a retired solicitor and he said i need to write a letter to Lloyds with bills for all repair work carried out and demand they pay me the said amounts as a duty of care?

I explained that i didnt have the repairs done as i couldnt afford it and that i have sold the house "sold as seen" at a loss of £15,000-He said it would be very hard to make a case in this situation as all my bills would be "mythical"-He said personally he wouldnt throw £40 at it to get it to the small claims court?

Bit unsure what to do at this stage now so any help or advice would be much apprieciated---Thanks again-----Big Al.

[honeybee13]

Hi there. I just scanned your thread quickly and can't see whether you received a copy of your application for this insurance? I just talked to Lloyds the other day about an online bank account and they said they'd send me all the paperwork afterwards.

 

If you have that, you can check what was said on your behalf. Apologies if I missed this somewhere in the thread.

 

HB

[Nemesis2010]

Hmmmmm

Edited July 1, 2010 by Nemesis2010

[bigal9ball]

Just to say this case is with the Financial Ombudsman at the moment and has been for a long time now(theyre very busy?) so keep watching this space