Legal Action: how to start off. IMPORTANT IF YOURE BEING SUED

[pt2537]

thanks PT, appreciated,

 

M

on a final note, you MUST inform the court if you have agreement to extend the deadline for filing a defence, if you dont then you look at default judgment if your not careful

[cymruambyth]

But what happens if the DJ (after a discussion with the barrister) then decides that he can just about make out the contents of the application form and parts 1 and 3 of the Wakeman judgement are applicable, and your case is lost?

[pt2537]

easily legible!!!

 

that is what the law requires, any action in the County Court to enforce an agreement must be met with a legible agreement. without it, the court cannot allow enforcement

 

The High Court made this clear

[MandM]

thankfully HHJ Wakeman QC handed down his judgment.

 

IF the agreement is illegible then it is foul of the Cancelation notices regs and then the court cannot enforce it, so , you would plead that the documents are illegible and you cannot plead as to the enforceability of the agreement at this stage

 

Am I right in saying though that there is little to stop them turning up at court with a legible copy and persuading the judge "this is what it would have looked like"

 

M

[cymruambyth]

My local court is obviously using a different section of the High Court for its guidance

[vint1954]

Part of the POC on my claim, states that:

 

The claimant has complied with sections iii & iv of the prctice direction on Pre-Action conduct.

 

Are there specific actions that should be taken, beyond a letter before action, which has not been sent.

 

They have failed to supply the agreement and termination notice, requested under CPR 31.14, supplying only a DN, which they have royally forged.

[gh2008]

Are there specific actions that should be taken, beyond a letter before action, which has not been sent.

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – PRE-ACTION CONDUCT - Ministry of Justice

 

hth

[alangee]

PT

 

What about when they send you a copy of an application in reply to a 31.14, stating that it is an agreement, even though there are no prescribed terms?

 

Alan

[DonkeyB]

Another question to tax PT's brain on this brilliant thread.

 

CL Finance/Howard Cohen are buying lots of Santander debt at the moment, and issuing a combined assignment/notice of court action letter which usually arrives after the N1, and within six or seven days of the debt being assigned. There are numerous examples on the forum.

 

Clearly Cohens are not following any form of pre-action protocol. What approach should be taken by the defendent in this case regarding disclosure?

 

Cohens' PoCs almost invariably refer to a Clause 7 in the T&Cs which is usually proven never to have existed.

[GhostDebt]

Another question still hopefully within the topic.

 

Where a court has made an order for witness statements to be filed/served and the witness statements for the Claimant have been written on their behalf by a litigation assistant at the Claimants solicitors and not by the actual Claimant is this a failure to comply with court orders? and what would be the appropriate response/next step?

 

Regards

[pt2537]

Another question still hopefully within the topic.

 

Where a court has made an order for witness statements to be filed/served and the witness statements for the Claimant have been written on their behalf by a litigation assistant at the Claimants solicitors and not by the actual Claimant is this a failure to comply with court orders? and what would be the appropriate response/next step?

 

Regards

no it is not, the actions of a solicitor are deemed as if they were those of the Claimant or Defendant , that is the general rule and there is no reason that will not apply here

[bigegg]

I have a (possibly(probably!)) stupid question, about something which has always bugged me when I read defences etc on here.

 

The numbers next to the words - do they refer to individual lines? individual points? individual paragraphs?

 

maybe it's the way they are displayed on the forum, but there seems to be no rhyme or reason to where they are placed - and I'm sure they ARE important!

[pt2537]

a defence should be framed correctly, with numbered paragraphs

[bigegg]

Each paragraph numbered with each paragraph issuing a seperate point of the defence?

 

I've just been glancing through a couple of defences, and I think I see how it works - I can also see where (and how) I've been confused.

 

Ta.

[BobDuncan]

I used a company called Henderson & Barker and contacted them with a view to investigating the legality of a couple of loans made to a company I worked for and for which I do not accept liability. the first loan was arranged through an intermediary and paid into a Limited Company account. I was led to believe that I was signing as a witness and the said intermediary had his hand over the page indicating with his finger to sign here. He constantly told me as a limited company there was no liability on me for the loan as it was a company loan. A second loan was arranged as a consolidation of the first loan. This again was paid into the company account and the monthly payments were paid by the company. I had no reason to worry, that was until I was unfairly dismissed on 29 June 2009 and had to take my employer to court for such. Won my case after 10 months.

 

Anyway, Henderson & Barker passed my case to their solicitors, Ultimate Law Ltd who sent all the papers for authorisation to act on my behalf for me to sign and return and I sent 2 x postal orders for £10.00 to get all the correspondence under the Data Protection Act etc from The Halifax. I received a letter from Ultimate Law dated 29 Nov 09 saying that on reviewing the paperwork the loan was unenforceable and they had written to Halifax saying that they had 28 days to respond. I contacted Ultimate Law at the end of October and they stated they had nothing back but would get on to it straight away. After a period of 3 more weeks I received a letter saying that Ultimate Law would no longer be dealing with my case as it was 'Too Far Progressed'. I telephoned them to enquire as to what Too Far Progressed meant. They just kept saying it was too far progressed and that was it. During all of this, they were fully aware of all the circumstances. I requested all the paperwork they had on my case and they said all they had was the agreements and I should apply in writing for these back, which I did. By the way they were aware that Bnk of Scotland (Halifax was taking me to court on 14 January 2010 for the full amount of the loan £20k+ and I was under the impression that Ultimate Law was formulating my defence on my behalf. This did not happen and at the Hearing on 14 January I was told that I had not filed a defence and judgement was to be made. I showed the court the letters I had from Ultimate Law and have now been given 28 days to file a full defence. What do I do now. The letter I sent to Ultimate Law has not been acted on and I am now back at the start. I am already going through a divorce over this, loosing my home and also lost my car. Any help would be appreciated and I do apologise for the short notice. I can't afford a solicitor as I barely cover the monthly bills.

[GhostDebt]

Hello Bob,

You should start your own thread on this in the legal issues forum to allow people to comment accordingly.

[spartathisis]

Bob d; you really need to start your own thread and I would say in the legal section. There are many on there who will be able to help. You will have to put in the details of when, who, why etc.

 

I would have thought there is a lot to work on, from did the int receive a fee that you knew about, why were you signing for loans for the company to did you sign a contract with Hend & Barker for the provision of service?

 

Good luck.

[cashins]

Subbing - Obviously not been paying attention and not see this thread 'till now.

 

Looks like solid gold!!!

 

David

[angry cat]

no it is not, the actions of a solicitor are deemed as if they were those of the Claimant or Defendant , that is the general rule and there is no reason that will not apply here

 

Third party authorities!

Edited January 17, 2010 by angry cat
typo

[GhostDebt]

no it is not, the actions of a solicitor are deemed as if they were those of the Claimant or Defendant , that is the general rule and there is no reason that will not apply here

 

Thank you for the reply PT. The reason for asking was based on a comment the DJ made at my last CMC.

[NoJusticeJustUs]

As pt2537 has said - it is about how you start off if you are being sued.

 

Look at the POC and see if it stands up to scrutiny - and then take it from there - being proactive and asking for proper help if you are not sure.

 

It would seem that many of these claims would not get off the starting blocks if correctly addressed. After all, if it was you bringing a claim, you would surely expect to have to present something which actually stands up as a proper claim. This applies to everyone and it is everyone's right to ask that the proper procedures are followed.

 

Panic sets in when the threatograms are coming through the letter box - we know the feeling well. And then when a blue one arrives, well...

 

It is easy to look too far ahead and start preparing too far ahead. I think what is being said is that people need to take it one step at a time, check what they are dong and ask for more professional help if required.

 

This site has fantastic templates and plenty of help on hand and as long as you ask for it in good time things can be addressed.

 

From the threads I have seen it appears best to ask each question as it arises in each case as every one is bound to be a bit different.

 

If you are going it alone and are quoting lots of case law, IMHO you would need to be able to argue the points and understand it all. Plus as it relates directly to you it is easy to see it a bit skewed whereas someone outside the situation would probably look at differently. I guess this is why doctors are not supposed to treat close family and friends.

 

pt 2537 and the rest of the knowledgable CAG team/subscribers are extremely generous to give their time in this way - thank goodness they are there. I expect they must get a bit frustrated sometimes re-iterating stuff!

[MARTIN3030]

Paul-I know you are busy-just that when you get a min;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/239338-cpr-court-hearing-tomorrow-3.html#post2708901

 

Posts 143 onwards.

 

TA.

[diddydicky]

eversheds have told me that the agreement that was already sent to me "is the agreement" (although they have not specifically stated that it is the one they will rely on in court) and that i have the DN (which i sent them a copy of) but they have not complied with 31.14 to produce details of how the amount in the poc was arrived at

 

i have an embarrased defence lodged

 

do i have to amend my defence based on the docs i do have or can i wait until they comply with the bit that they haven't yet complied with?

 

In restons case (another card) i made a cpr 31.14 and 18 request to them on 4 jan (having corresponded with them for three months already)

 

they responded on 7 jan acknowledging the letters but refusing to act on them as they no longer respond to unsigned letters (backdated to 1st Jan)

 

the claim is just shy of 5000 but i had pointed out it is trackless until AQ's anyway, and as they gave ANOTHER reason for non compliance i take it they would now find it difficult to say the reason is due to their beleif that it would be Small claims?

[DonkeyB]

Technically NOT trackless but multi-track until a judge assigns a track, I think, so 31.14 does apply. They are being, er, disingenuous, as usual. I may be wrong tho. I do have a stupid streak.

[NoJusticeJustUs]

Does the agreement look enforceable?

 

If you are unsure how it should look, have you asked one of the site team?

 

Why did you send them a copy of DN?

 

As claimant, they need to prove to you and the court that they have supplied all docs - not other way round.

 

My understanding is that if docs are mentioned in POC, then they have to be produced in court and you can ask for order for disclosure, but again check first with someone more knowledgable.

 

I think you could use the signature guard thing, or just sign with other hand! (or print it).

 

And to go back a step, you might be able to ultimately go for a strike out based upon the fact that docs not supplied. Again I think you should check with site team or someone more knowledgable. I think you could hit the red triangle if urgent, otherwise, someone will be along soon.

 

Keep smiling!