Can We All Do Something Meaningful About Starting A 'class Action' Against Lenders ?

[ryde]

If you could get enough people in support and got national coverage you could threaten a repayment strike until action was taken by the government,such a strike would ruin most of them.shelter and cab are the 2 best friends the consumer has and the only ones with any clout,so rocket an excellent idea.

This used to be a pioneering group but am not sure now whether it still exists.Mortgage Victims~National Association of

 

National Association of Mortgage Victims

PO Box 1869

Cheadle

Stoke on Trent

ST10 4WA

Helpline: 01889507394 F: 01889507398

carol@namv.org.ukwww.namv.org.uk

Carol Riley: Administrator

NAMV incorporates the CMC/OCWEN and 'i' GROUP Victims Associations

If you purchased a mortgage through a broker, possibly because of a previously bad credit history, you could easily have fallen foul of the companies who take advantage of 'sub prime' customers. The NAMV have valuable experience in picking holes in legal cases pursued by such companies. If you have a mortgage debt problem they are well worth a call. They have information packs for common problems.

One of NAMV's campaigns in 2001 is on oppressive debt collecting when financial insitutions come back on former customers 10 years after a repossession to recover the shortfall between the resale price and the original arrears plus interest. Many of these claims are not legally enforceable.

Another campaign is for National Home Loans / Paragon borrowers and ex-borrowers. A separate action group is being created to investigate possible claims for compensation and return of secret commissions.

For full details / more information talk to NAMV

Need help with debt problems? See our DataSheet on Fair Debt Collection

back to:

nabic FACTS

a-z of contact addresses and other information

Contact:

webmaster@LemonAid.net

Last update 08-05-04

Press (in IE or Firefox) and click a link to open in a new window. Other browsers - right-click the link and choose 'open in new window'

Close new windows down, use the button (browser), or backarrow ç (keyboard) to return here. © national assoc of bank + ins customers 2003/2004

 

"][top]

Edited December 16, 2009 by ryde

[rocket1]

HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERS | Facebook

 

I have just set up this Facebook group to try and recruit more people.

 

Could I suggest to you all that you a) join this facebook group and b) recruit other relevant people onto it

[rocket1]

Thanks for that Ryde. Will investigate.

[michellej]

great work Rocket , good to see someone take the bull by the horns ,.. will be joining the facebbok group also ,.. well done

[enoughisenough]

Subbing...

[eagleforms]

How about "Rage Against Possession Extortion" for a temporary name.

[ryde]

suggest you use the words national,association or group as in above to add weight to the name.Don't think the above exists anymore as the founder carol riley unfortunately went broke last year.Should have been sponsored by the wasteful goverment who fund bizarre schemes like support groups for gay priests and the like.

Edited December 17, 2009 by ryde

[rocket1]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

I do think it is a good idea to have words like national, group, association etc; but, bearing that in mind, we have to try and find a 'catchy' name and keep it as brief as possible - ideally two words.

 

It would be a very good idea to get as many people as possible to think up their own ideas of names and list them, so we can collect them all and then decided on which is the best.

 

I suggest our first objective is to find a place to list all the people who want to contribute their 'horror' tales of bad mortgages because this is the group's raw material from which to engage in any legal action.

 

This list of people needs to be as long as possible which is why I have started a 'Facebook' page here which is something outside the relatively narrow confines of these forums where I hope lots of other people will be attracted to in time.

 

So, it is useless for this thread to degenerate into just an endless woffle between a small handful of people.

 

 

A dedicated webpage for this group is required I think, as a forum like this has immense limitations and will eventually get us precisely nowhere.

 

I will shortly organise a blog webpage (it's free ennit) as a temporary measure just so we can start to collate information in an orderly way which bona fide members or perhaps just 'committee or active' members can have administration access. We can work out whether to make this blogpage entirely private and not open to any public view or not, as the case may be.

 

 

Our initial weapon is in numbers of complaints made to the Office of Fair Trading and to other useful places (more on which later).

Edited December 17, 2009 by rocket1

[actionnotwords]

How about laying out basic common ground and just instigating an online petition and gettin CAB/SHELTER or such like to petition for us.All that entails is just people signing up, otherwise this could take forever and every minute thats wasted some poor sod is getting repossessed and probably illegally.

Individual stories are too long winded just cut to the basic common ground which is totally unjustified and illegal arrears charges eventually leading to repo,thats what its all about.

[rocket1]

How about laying out basic common ground and just instigating an online petition and gettin CAB/SHELTER or such like to petition for us.All that entails is just people signing up, otherwise this could take forever and every minute thats wasted some poor sod is getting repossessed and probably illegally.

Individual stories are too long winded just cut to the basic common ground which is totally unjustified and illegal arrears charges eventually leading to repo,thats what its all about.

 

The whole point of this exercise is to get the Office of Fair Trading or other public body like Shelter to petition for us as you say. But that will only happen if we 'prod' them appropriately.

 

The Office of Fair Trading will do absolutely nothing if they do not receive enough individual complaints. If they do receive a large number of individual complaints they are obliged by law to instigate an investigation and possible legal action to follow.

 

It is our objective to make things happen like this if at all possible.

 

But we cannot achieve this without a large number of those individual complaints to the OFT and to other places too.

 

You can't just expect Shelter or the Office of Fair Trading to commence a legal action just because half a dozen people here are chattering away on a forum demanding it !

 

It is imperative we recruit as many people as possible. There are thousands of them. We need to go out there and get them.

 

To do this we need people here to make an effort to help recruit more and more people. To actually do something positive about it and not just sit back and expecting someone else to do all the work to make it magically happen for them. It won't !

 

All that is needed to make this happen is for an extremely large number of people to write out their mortgage 'horror story', as I have already said, and then write a letter of complaint to the Office of Fair Trading, Shelter, Their M P and any other useful person.

 

When a barrage of complaints mounts up at the OFT and with MPs, two things will happen. The OFT will announce their own official investigation probably followed by them commencing a legal action on our behalf.

 

The other thing is that MP's will ask questions in Parliament and a hurricane of public debate and anger might well be unleashed which hopefully will utterly destroy these thieves who have been engaged in this wholesale fraud.

 

Our job right now is to exponentially increase our numbers. Each person needs to write out their mortgage history with their observations of unfair or fraudulent behaviour by the lenders.

 

We need to list those people, together with their stories and they need to write that letter of complaint.

 

So, can we have some action please ? By which I mean everyone here should be writing out their mortgage story ready to use (the OFT will need to see that) and can everyone here please help to expand our numbers in any way they can.

 

I will soon get around to writing out a plan for pursuing this and obtaining publicity to help.

 

Meanwhile, if anyone here has expertise in using things like Facebook or Twitter to achieve more publicity, please let me know.

 

You hear about these things producing vast interest for trivialities, so they should work well for this if used properly.

 

But I need help with this, not just lots of endless hot air expended by virtue of thousands of posts in a forum muttering darkly about evil mortgage lenders have been.

 

We all know that.

 

Now we need to actually DO something about it before we lose our window of opportunity !

[rocket1]

I understand SPML are about to go bust. That speaks volumes about their fraudulent behaviour.

 

***************

This announcement in today's Telegraph about SPPL's imminent insolvency may be of interest:

 

Shares & Markets - http://telegraph.uk-wire.com/cgi-bin/articles/200912171131162946E.html?epic=

[ryde]

Rocket

Absolutely no criticism or anything else intended but have to agree with actionnot words have seen all this discussed for months and months on spml thread and numerous others.Everyone has basically the same story ,as you say you need to get as many names as possible,the only way to do this in my opinion is to post it as a first thing people see on the main google search somehow.Its got to be kept simple and its always the same pattern, see mr fulchers report,extract the relevant bits put that into a template letter and get people to sign up ,theres hundreds here alone.People can provide personal details when and if required otherwise the whole lot will get bogged down.

I don't think youre gonna get enough numbers here quickly enough its just all too fragmented over too many threads unless you can get admin involved.

The action to get sppl busted was started by ITBG on spml thread a great example of how to get people fired up and doing something,well worth a look.

Edited December 18, 2009 by ryde

[rocket1]

I do agree with Actionnotwords and you that wittering endlessly away here will not do much and I have noticed this happening elsewhere.

 

I want to try and take all this and turn it into something more useful. A website about it can get to the top of the Google search maybe and there are loads of other publicity opportunities.

 

If we can just get a little bit of momentum up here we can decide on a name, organise the website with appropriate information on it, and then get press publicity going, firstly by announcing the launch of this organisation and inviting other borrowers to join us through the whole spectrum of the media.

 

 

But it all needs working on, which is why we will need some people other than me to do some of the work.

 

For instance, the CAG forums and other parts of the web can be trawled and individual email invitations sent out to mortgage victims asking them to join.

 

But I cannot emphasise enough that it is essential for people to produce their own stories of complaint. It is the sheer number of these which will make this whole thing happen.

 

If mortgage victims are genuinely serious about trying to really do something about this, surely it is not too much to ask them to write out the details of their mortgage victimisation and write a letter of complaint to the OFT etc ?

[rocket1]

HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERING

 

I have made a microscopic start on the blog site the address of which is above and at:

 

http://homeownersforjusticeagainstmortgageracketeering.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/calling-all-homeowners/#respond

Edited December 18, 2009 by rocket1

[ryde]

Really good work and effort rocket a good positive start ,many thanks hope this may shake some out of their apathy.

[rocket1]

Ryde,

 

I have made an improvement to the blog to get it going properly now.

 

The address is listed below. just click on either of these and it will get you to the blog.

 

HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERING

 

HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERING

 

The purpose of this blog is to collect mortgage stories and publish them, but to also keep private those who wish them not to be published. All of them should be anonymised, but would be identifiable to the administrators of the blog so they can be used as ammunition for the OFT.

 

The blog is also a vehicle to whip up support from the whole of the public, not just the Consumer Action Forums.

 

If you know anyone who can help us with how to get the best out of the blog to get the maximum coverage exposure and publicity for it, please let me know.

 

I am actually clueless about how to get readership for blogs and clueless as to how to design them.

 

Any help or suggestions would be very welcome !

[rocket1]

Look what I have just found...... Read on and take heart.

 

Homeowner Rip-Offs Spark Scores of Lawsuits

 

by Adrianne Appel

 

BOSTON - Many of the biggest mortgage lenders in the U.S. have engaged in widespread, systematic schemes that ripped off hundreds of thousands of families seeking to buy a home, refinance or foreclose, according to lawsuits filed on behalf of consumers.



Hugo Malar paid $800 to a former mortgage broker who advertised a 'money back guarantee' promised to help him negotiate to keep him in his home. They later learned that by the time they wrote him the check they thought would save their home, the bank had already sold it at auction.

 

Scores of class-action lawsuits, from the 1990s and up to today, detail the illegal and questionable practices used by mortgage-lending companies that pushed millions into bad mortgages, then into bad refinancing loans and then into foreclosures with unfair fees.

 

The lawsuits have been filed by private attorneys and state attorneys general, and on behalf of NGOs.

 

Ameriquest, Countrywide Financial, H&R Block and Option One, HSBC Finance and Wells Fargo are just a few of the companies that have been sued - some repeatedly - for masterminding or carrying out plans to defraud families.

 

"Many of the mortgage lenders taking advantage of people today are those who were the biggest perpetrators last time around," Jim Campen, executive director of Americans for Fairness in Lending, told IPS.

 

HSBC, Britain's largest bank, and its entities Household International and Household Financial and Beneficial, wrote hundreds of thousands of sub-prime loans in the U.S. that have been the subject of multiple class-action lawsuits.

 

Read more by clicking on the link below

 

 

CORRUPTION-US: Homeowner Rip-Offs Spark Scores of Lawsuits - IPS ipsnews.net

 

IT IS DO - ABLE

 

We just need to get off our backsides and get on with it !

Edited December 19, 2009 by rocket1

[rocket1]

I just thought some of you might be interested in this as it shows how we can use our internet communications clout to sock it to these fraudulent banks.

 

About Us | CommonDreams.org

 

http://www.commondreams.org/why-it-matters

CommonDreams.org is a national nonprofit, progressive, nonpartisan citizens' organization founded in 1997 by political activists Craig Brown and his late wife, Lina Newhouser.

 

We are a powerful online voice for change in America.

 

With millions of monthly readers, we have become one of the top progressive websites.

 

What we do.

 

We use the latest technology to bring the progressive community together online.

 

We create political organizing tools and new models for Internet activism.

We publish breaking news from a progressive perspective. And the latest ideas and opinions* of some of the world's best progressive writers and activists.

 

Our community.

 

We are writers. Activists. Everyday citizens.

 

We are are hundreds of thousands strong.

 

We are united by our common dreams of peace and security, equal opportunity, and meaningful participation in our society.

 

We are energized by our passionate belief that these dreams should be within reach of everyone. Regardless of race, gender, or status.

 

Our mission.

 

To inform. To inspire. To ignite change for the common good.

[rocket1]

I just thought some of you might be interested in reading this as it shows that we have more muscle than you might think !

 

"Almost every system our government has built or interfered in is broken. Healthcare. The economy. Education. Our courts. Our infrastructure. Our environment.

 

It's time to fix them.

 

This is a make-it-or-break-it moment in our history.

 

Either we set the progressive agenda ourselves. Or the next wave of politicians will set its own agenda, no doubt with the help of corporate crooks and an army of special interest groups.

 

Where do we start? By rejecting the inevitability of the same old regressive politics of the past. By rising up in numbers never before seen.

 

By engaging in the political process as if our lives depended on it.

 

Because they do.

 

CommonDreams.org is your community, your movement, your platform for civic participation.

 

We provide the Internet meeting space, the news and views, the tools.

 

You bring your creativity, your energy, and your passion for the progressive ideals that are at the heart of all of our hopes and dreams.

 

Please become part of the future of progressive politics!

 

Why it matters | CommonDreams.org

[rocket1]

Thought this may be of interest - sorry about the orgy of posting; but they are all useful posts and need to be 'on the record' for future use.

 

I have spent about 12 hours on this today !

 

 

Key repossession ruling opens door to mortgage mis-selling complaints

 

Ombudsman's verdict offers hope for homeowners who are battling to keep a roof over their heads. Neasa MacErlean reports

 

 

 

Neasa MacErlean

 

The Observer, Sunday 22 March 2009

 

 

A remarkable ombudsman victory for a householder who had his home repossessed after being mis-sold a hefty mortgage could set a precedent, preventing others from losing their properties as the recession bites, lawyers say.

 

This year an estimated 75,000 families - against 40,000 last year - will lose their homes, according to the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML).

 

But many who face handing back the keys could be helped by rules covering "suitable advice" for borrowers, buried in the handbook of the Financial Services Authority (FSA), the City regulator.

 

Andrew Brown (not his real name) struggled to repay his mortgage but subsequently took his mis-selling case to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and has now won. Despite turning to the FOS late on and being repossessed, he will receive compensation - while other borrowers who begin cases at an earlier stage than he did might well be able to save their homes too.

 

A housing association tenant, Brown had the valuable promise of a rent fixed for life. However, a mortgage adviser persuaded him to buy the property and failed to consider "what would happen when the attractive discounted rate [set up on that mortgage] ended", according to an FOS spokeswoman.

 

Brown was repossessed and had to move; he then lodged a complaint with his mortgage adviser and ultimately brought the case to the FOS.

 

Industry specialists believe more claims of this kind are now likely to emerge. The main source of optimism for those in a similar position lies deep within the FSA's rulebook for mortgage advisers, Mortgage and Home Finance: Conduct of Business (MCOB).

 

This states mortgage advice must be "suitable for that customer" and that advisers "must make and retain a record" of it being suitable; this is known, crucially (and rather technically), as complying with section 4.7. Breaches of the MCOB rules are "actionable at the suit of a private person who suffers loss as a result", under section 150 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

 

"Undoubtedly, such cases would succeed," says professional negligence barrister John Virgo of Guildhall Chambers in Bristol. "There is a fundamental obligation under MCOB [rules] and I'm sure there will be a pretty big increase in this sort of litigation."

 

Philip Ryley, head of financial services and markets at solicitor Michelmores, is more cautious. He says: "It really depends on each individual case as to whether they have received a service which would breach MCOB rules. It is an issue that may be raised before district judges [deciding repossession cases].

 

"If it develops wholesale, it devalues the meritous cases that exist. The courts will soon become familiar with these arguments and will then require the borrowers to produce evidence at an early stage. to root out frivolous or unsubstantiated allegations."

 

Though there may be concern some borrowers might try to exploit the MCOB rule without good cause, there appear to be many cases of people being mis-sold mortgages they could not afford.

 

A Citizens Advice report entitled Set Up to Fail, on the sub-prime lending market in 2007, found the charity's repossession clients had often found themselves with "inappropriate and unaffordable" mortgages and secured loans, and that people buying council houses received "particularly poor advice".

 

One case it highlighted concerned a couple with a disabled child in south-east Wales who were persuaded to take a second mortgage on their home. The loan wiped out their equity and meant £1,300 - 87% - of their £1,500 monthly income went on mortgage repayments.

 

The CML accepts the rulebook can be invoked by consumers. "The MCOB rules are there for a reason: to protect consumers," says spokeswoman Sue Anderson. "Consumers have 'the ability and right' to rely on these regulations if they believe they have not been dealt with correctly," she says.

 

In 2007, Cash highlighted how cold-callers were using dodgy selling tactics to convince social housing tenants to exercise their "right to buy" and saddle these low-income homes with inappropriate mortgages.

 

Although the ombudsman found in Brown's favour, the issue remains complicated. The FOS is charged with restoring people, as far as possible, to the situation they would otherwise have been in - and that is not straightforward in circumstances such as these.

 

"Historically, you may not have been worse off," says the FOS spokeswoman, referring to the fact that when house prices were rising - until 2007 - people who had been mis-sold an unsuitable mortgage might not have lost out if the price of their house was rising. They would not have won compensation.

 

Now, the ombudsman is having to work out how to compensate someone who has not been protected by the rise in property values.

 

Have you got a claim for mis-selling?

 

• If you are in financial difficulty, first try all other steps to resolve your crisis: talk to the lender as early as possible about arrears; seek advice from a debt charity; curb spending and draw up a tight budget; and try to boost your income.

 

• Be brutally honest: if you've been in any way economical with the truth in your mortgage application, such as overstating your income (whether unwittingly or not), your case will be much weaker.

 

• You could have a case if your mortgage adviser never explored affordability with you, or dealt with you in a superficial way. Advisers should rely on past figures for income and outgoings, says Philip Ryley of Michelmores. If they don't have them, then you're off to a strong start.

 

• You might have extra grounds for a case of mis-selling if your mortgage stretched beyond your retirement date and your adviser did not explore that as an affordability issue.

 

• A case based on what's known as mortgage "misrepresentation" might also be feasible. According to Ryley, this might be arguable if you were "given a very hard sell, or told everything good about the product and given no information about what would happen when interest rates went up". If misrepresentation is argued successfully, the contract can be rescinded - as a case in 1991 proved.

 

• To avoid the expense of lawyers' fees, a homeowner can make a claim with the individual who advised on the mortgage, and if the response is unsatisfactory take the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service. The FOS would probably request that your repossession proceedings are put on hold during any investigation.

 

• Even if your mortgage began before the MCOB was ushered in on 31 October 2004, the rules could still apply, says one lawyer who wishes not to be named. "It makes no difference as to when the loan was entered in to, for the purposes of the arrears rules," he says.

 

• Publicity about such cases will take time to filter out, as they are likely to be settled informally. But if people do start making claims in significant numbers, it could snowball, says one unnamed financial services lawyer. "What would be interesting would be a group action," he said.

[rocket1]

Isn't anyone really interested in helping to organise a 'class action' legal case against lenders for their miss-selling etc ?

[enoughisenough]

Rocket

 

a happy new year to you and I and many other caggers are grateful for your efforts. However it is a nigh on impossible task akin to shovelling water uphill. I'm afraid that too many are under very serious pressure hemmed in under their own situation. I've tried and failed a number of times to organise a class action. But don't be too hard on people for talking. Such talk has possibly saved hundreds from going under at the hands of these predatory scavengers.

 

Keep the faith. EiE.

[jetli]

Isn't anyone really interested in helping to organise a 'class action' legal case against lenders for their miss-selling etc ?

Count me in

[ryde]

ROCKET

eie is from experience unfortunately right.

Failing a class action at least can we start something with the press and get some momentum going.must be worth a try.

See this post from the spml thread and post your opinion.

Nurse wins reprieve over repossession | This is Money

originally posted by midge above.

 

 

Have posted an extract as our lot are mentioned and saves clicking the link.

Thanks midge well found.

Unregulated: The tough sub-prime mortgage lenders

 

Almost 50,000 homes were repossessed last year and many of these actions were brought by sub-prime lenders such as Rooftop.

These are mostly little-known firms that in 2006 and 2007 lent to higher-risk homeowners such as the self-employed or those with histories of arrears.

Many, like Rooftop, Southern Pacific Mortgages Limited (SPML) and Preferred, were first owned by American investment banks that failed.

The current ownership of many such lenders is unclear, even though tens of thousands of ordinary borrowers remain on their books. The Financial Services Authority says it has no list of such lenders or their parent companies and no knowledge of what mortgage rates they charge.

In many cases the lenders are thought to be foreign, unregulated businesses that can charge high mortgage rates and become aggressive if borrowers default.

 

 

Evidence from Citizens Advice, Shelter and other charities suggests these lenders are especially harsh over arrears. The law simply requires that the mortgages be run by a UK firm authorised by the FSA. But these have no control over lenders' rates or arrears policy.

The FSA says: 'Regulation doesn't cover the owner, only the administrator. And the administrator has no responsibility for setting rates and charges. We support proposals to extend our remit.'

The Treasury has outlined proposals to extend regulation to cover the new owners of these 'sold mortgage books'. Consultation concludes next month so any legislative change remains a long way off.

The regulated administrator firms, including some familiar names, are reluctant to talk.

Skipton Building Society, through its HML subsidiary, is the biggest administrator of other lenders' mortgage books. Its clients include lenders such as GMAC and Commercial First, both of which have been associated with unfair treatment of borrowers. HML refused to speak to Financial Mail.

Capstone, the administrator responsible for SPML and Preferred mortgages, also failed to answer our questions.(SURPRISE SURPRISE)

 

I THOUGHT ALL THE SPML ETC LOANS WERE REGULATED BY THE FSA .

WHY DON'T WE SEE IF WE CAN GET THE MAIL ON THIS LOT.WHILST THEY STILL SEEM "HOT TO TROT "

SEND THEM THE SAME COMPLAINT WE MADE IN RELATION TO LORD CAGGER'S (ITBG/ITGG ETC) POST.

[rocket1]

Rocket

 

a happy new year to you and I and many other caggers are grateful for your efforts. However it is a nigh on impossible task akin to shovelling water uphill. I'm afraid that too many are under very serious pressure hemmed in under their own situation. I've tried and failed a number of times to organise a class action. But don't be too hard on people for talking. Such talk has possibly saved hundreds from going under at the hands of these predatory scavengers.

 

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

It only needs a relatively tiny effort from each individual to get this class action going.

 

I am under an amount of pressure and time poverty that I doubt is exceeded by anyone else, but I am determined to at least try and do something about this as I absolutely know I have a case as do many,many other people.

 

As I said previously, a class action was brought in the USA by various State Governments but the matter was settled out of court with a vast 300 million payment by the lender.

 

 

It is simply a matter of writing the story down so that lawyers can look at it and then say, yes, this looks like an actionable case under x or y point of law.

 

I am pretty sure we will be able to get the lawyers and it is mostly probable that we will get the OFT or Shelter to front such an action.

 

But they are not going to do a thing unless we pull our fingers out.

 

And yes, I will definitely get press coverage if we follow the course of action I suggest, because I know it is newsworthy if properly handled.

 

Let us get some 'mortgage stories' written down describing what we think is the mis-selling etc so we can trot off to a lawyer with them to get some opinion about them.

 

These can be easily be written without them revealing any details about the person who has experienced them.