MILTON KEYNES COUNCIL trumpet house windows.

[loopinlouie]

Firstly I consider myself lucky to have a council house but I am fed up with the repairs side.

 

A few years ago I was lucky to have the rotten wooden windows replaced with double glazing and all seemed well and a lot warmer untill,

 

The top double bedroom window had an obviuos fault, I knew they had had problems fitting it, but when I had repairs come out due to the constant far**ing noises when we had the slightest slither of wind, I was told the problem was it wasnt sealed properly and they used a glue gun, sort of thing used on bathroom tiles.

 

Ive since had them out twice also on same issue and obviously after a week of wind and last night with no sleep I am at breaking point.

 

But the icing on the cake is my son today pointed out were we not told to avoid touching the outer fascia and bin cuboard due to contained asbestos. When we have wind a constant draught and stream of dust comes through the wall, not helped by the wind break between each house is missing between me and next door.

 

So I asked them today to make sure they assess for asbestos when come to reassure me I am not breathing it in, could be plaster board for all I know as these houses have not one brick or breeze block in them, they were put up in the 70's to house the house builders.

 

They are still here with corregated iron on the front and although sound ropey are nice houses selling well and Ive been happy here. Just a little fed up when reminded them of asbestos mention was told to carry on sleeeping in here as been doing so for so long anyhow. Only realised today this constant stream of grey/white dust could be asbestos due to wind pressure. At the moment my wall is moving under the pressure of the wind, so it is powerfull out there and alhough wind happens my point is it would be a lot better with sealed double glazing and not just plonked in, the far* noise and trumpet accompanyment has to be heared to be believed. OH for a brick, all is forgiven.

 

So needed to rant on and anyone with ideas of what could be wrong with these windows appreciated, I dont think a glue gun is going to solve it:( When windows are put in is there supposed to be sealant or some sort of insulation to block gaps, as this was put in in peices and they had trouble getting the windows stable in the frame if I remember rightly. Going to put in on you tube if not sorted soon, the far**ing window orchestra.

 

Lets just hope the council hasnt given me asbestosis, just plasterboardosis. I am asthmatic so trying to keep laughing:D

 

Dont think I will be leaning on bedroom wall for a little time soon:eek: I am three stories up:eek::eek:

[loopinlouie]

Their sending out repair men to try to seal them again with glue gun. I aked her to read out what she had put down thats how I knew. I said it wont be fixed like that, the window possible needs to come out and be put back in better or new and was told their men would report so if thats the case and was told off for not reporting it sooner. I have they just dont have it on their system:mad:

 

I asked where the other repairs were Id reported confirmed listed and couldnt answer why they were not done, said I have to keep chasing them, problem is I havnt got the strength anymore.

[2ltr16valve]

When I used to fit double upvc windows years ago we used to use expanding foam around the frame, and then use cement on the outside nothing would get through that in a wind

 

being as your house is not brick faced, but metal.... I would of used plastic cladding secured with expanding foam behind and lots of glue/silicone to secure the plastic fascia/cladding

[loopinlouie]

Thanks for the infor. Apparantly my windows have no sealantt at least that one doesnt. I watched them put the plastic frames in, screw them down and slot in windows then add plastic fascias, no sealant. If that is the problem I will make council aware, actually I'll see what happens. Trouble is in all fairness to who they send out, they are general council repairs not capable of taking out window and repair. Ive said they should chase the people who they paid to put them in, must have some sort of guarantee.

 

Any way thanks for advice. Just frustrating the council say, well today it is windy and I have to reply I am sat in my frontroom, listening to the windows upstairs, if it was just because windy, they would all be playing a tune:)

 

They'll get it done I am just tired of it.

[bobinky]

Get a copy of the councils complaints procedure and follow it to the letter until it comes to using the ombudsman(about 5 weeks before you get to that stage depending on council).

At that point it is on the desk of the boss even if its passed through his desk before.He/she will then send someone who will do something.

Its what I do for a living,consultant to HA and councils etc.

I've come across the window problem before,once a ill fitting trickle vent,once it was fitted upside down,once there was a gap on the finishing trim that was whistling inside the frame.

The problem is that the repairs surveyor probably has too many to look at a day,

he has no time to get a ladder and have a good look,

he isnt able to replace the windows as it was done through capital budget(PPM)and they dont care once the works done as then it reactive repairs job

the repair guys have a time limit for doing whatever is ordered and no authority to do anything else

there is no money to replace the window if its defect as its new.

But...the papers,councillors,MP's letters are 10 a penny and no-one cares but a ombudsman decision is on the records re star rating and a reflection on the maintenance managers statistics that he cant hide in figures or 'lose'.

If they miss the dates on the complaints procedure by a day compain about that as a separate complaint and Ill guarantee the whistling window is done in 2 months.

[loopinlouie]

Thanks for the advice.

 

They are sending repairs next week, so will give them a chance to put right again and if not ok, do what you suggest:)

[loopinlouie]

AAAArrrGH:shock:

 

Told today problem with windows is that they are faulty. My windows are huge about 5metres length by over 1.5m wide. Slit into four portions within frame with one section that opens outwards hinged on the top. Told for health and safety they are not allowed to be made that big and the opening window is not supported by a big enough bolt, anotherwords dangerous as could fall off.

 

The top floor is better but the more offending for noise and apparantly the windows are just too big and should have been made smaller and altered cosmetically with fascias.

 

They are going to contact council telling them they need replacing, but have warned me for cost the council is likely to say no, try and make do, even though they have told me they are experienced in window fitting and know nothing can be done.

 

They are going to need to scafold the house front and try and see what can be done on the front to stop air getting into the top window.

 

So good news in that it is a problem I have not made big as far as the council are concerned, but bad in that the council are likely to authorise half the main window pulled out and soldered to reduce side with fascias, another words gonna look awfull. So keeping fingers crossed and things are moving, but warned the whole estate has got window problems so not looking good.

 

Funny thing is my main gripe was the top floor and I quite liked the huge glass windows, typical I am awkward.

 

I thought it was just me with an orchestra attatched to front of house, apparantly not. Maybe I could put up xmas lights and time them with the noise, festive:D

 

Oh and ps, apparantly unlikely asbestos so nerves can calm down. At least they knew what they were doing, If Id have seen a glue gun thingy Id have blown up

Edited November 25, 2009 by loopinlouie

[loopinlouie]

Anyone in the industry know? If a window is not supported by a big enough bolt couldnt they just put another one in or change direction of window opening as in solder on bolt sideways instead of above. Just that it seemed they were more concerned with this window and I dont think this is going to solve wind getting in around rest of windows if they are apparantly faulty any how. He was concerned with overall weight on wooden frame of house, said they were too big.

 

Surely it makes sence to rip them out and put safer ones in whilst insulating around them at same time, just peed off this is going to turn out another bodge up.

 

I know its not my house but I still live here and dont want it looking crappy.:(Winge over:(

[loopinlouie]

When I first made a call to the council I said that the bedroom window had major problem with air getting through frame and later phoned again to add the front room one. I realised listening to the tape I had neglected to say front window as well and understand the council can only look at what is listed (see how taping the call aids me:D)

 

Any how after the experience of the workman I raised a complaint about concerns as to the man saying what needed doing and yet the council not having this listed as required. Instead they seem to have totally ignored the air getting in around the frames as the man told me nothing could be done as not fit for purpose and instead targeted the front window at the pain that opens.

 

I told them this would not solve the problem and could an inspector come and look at it. I was told they thought that was a good idea and it is my right and would ring me within the week.

 

On the friday I had heared nothing and rang and was told they would ring the following week. I got a call telling me the appointments book had not got me in it and it was probably an oversite of someone and they would again ring me back.

 

Nearly two weeks later herared nothing so rang again to be told the inspector and housing officer was to come out to me, but delayed due to staff sickness, fair enough I thought. They would ring me. Again heared nothing.

 

By now we are at xmas I know no one is comming, but get the repair agents ring me demanding to make an appointment to measure the opening pain for repair. I said I was waiting for the inspector to asses what was best and she became very annoyed and aggressive in manner, stating well we have been told otherwise and basically that unless I agreed they would cancel the work. I was told by her nothing was scheduled to stop the draft on the outside of the frame as told needed looking at by repair man and confirmed to her I was not confident they were going to do the job properly. She then slammed the phone down on me. I have to say all along I was polite and it was in fact the same dept who rang me a few days earlier asking to change another appointment for a radiator repair for the second time and I suspected they wished to leave it untill the inspector had called.

 

Any how tuesday received curt letter stating below:

 

 

22/12/09

I am writing to you with regard to your complaint regarding the front bedroom window.

 

When we spoke on the 2nd December I said that I wold arrange for a surveryor to attend and that you would receive a call to arrange an appointment to siut you. After discussion it was decided that a surveyor need not attend as we have all the information required to make a decision regarding the window.

The descision has been made that as the remit of the repairs department is to repair, we ill attempt a repair. To this end you have been contacted to arrange an appointment for the works to be carried out but so far you have refused the works. This will mean that the order will be closed. Please note for works to commence another order will need to be raised.

I am given to understand that you record conversations as an aide de memoir. At this juncture may I remind you that this should be for personal use only and you must ask permission of the persons present before recording.

 

Yours sincerely

xxxxxxx

 

...................

I rang them to basically politely point out:

Now firstly this letter mentions the bedroom window as the repair and complaint raised so why are no repairs mentioned for it with the agents:mad:

 

Next they are aware I record calls, I told them and informed them it was not against any law to do so, they were having a go at me over the phone ab out it and I refered her to the house notes, which stated I told them I do so previously.

 

But mainly they told me they were not interested in their agent telling me what should be done and came accross very angry at me for having a tape of it.

 

I am happy for them to repair the windows, but do so properly, I cant deal with the stress anymore and apparantly they have cancelled all repairs.

 

I do not feel the answered my complaint properly or fairly, have been told it is my right for an inspector to asses, yet told they have gone on the information given to them by agents and what I say does not count.

 

I feel let down:mad: Meanwhile weeks later we are still cold and the heating is going mad, feel like sending them a portion of the bill.

 

Any legal advice on how to respond to the bullies.

[loopinlouie]

I feel they are more angry I have taped their agent stating what should be done. I even ask him can they be repaired and sealed with some sort of foam etc or cement paste, to be told pointless as would degrade. They are faulty I am told and not allowed to be made like that anymore. They are only five years old.

 

I feel they are more worried about the cost of replacing them than what should be done. The repairs man stated he was a windows expert who previously owned his own window company and he could confirm the problem goes back to installation.

 

All I care about is this is not my house its council, so surely there are rules about what they should do.

[loopinlouie]

I have a thread on residential section regarding council not repairing house properly(council house trumpet windows), if you have time could someone have a look and help script official sounding letter. To be honest I am exhausted by all the chasing and on the point of giving in, so any help appreciated:)

 

They are especially being snotty about me recording calls although they have it on file I do so for memory, could you sort out some official reference stating my rights. They are also furious I recorded the repair man telling me what needed doing, I have internal system which records like a lot of people and they are mad about it:mad: I feel there would not have been an issue had their workman not say he would report one thing yet did another.

 

Thanks xx

[2ltr16valve]

I would instigate a formal complaint with your council, not the repairs dept.

 

This if the same as my council, goes though stages...

 

Stage 1 - initial complaint, which they usually fob you off !

 

Stage 2 - Get same reply as stage 1 above with a few bits added to make it seem they care.

 

Stage 3 - You escalate it to Corporate level, where it gets dealt with at the CEO's office staff....

 

Everything I have been unhappy about with my local council has been resolved at stage 3 only, sadly they seem to not give a crad until then !

[loopinlouie]

Thanks, I will not let myself get so stressed about it then as It is affecting my mental health, but will put in in writing, just hoping someone can script official sounding letter as dont know how to do it without waffling

 

Surely it does not look good on them to cancel the repair and close complaint yet not bothering to ring and tell me and leave me hanging on, this explains the repairs woman being annoyed with me saying she knew different, would have been plain courtesy to let me know.

[bobinky]

Start at the beginning again.They will use the 'refused repairs' response and the 'called but wasn't in' to drag it out.

Report repair and ask for a copy of complaints procedure/protocol.

Follow it to the letter.

If they want to stick chewing gum in the gaps let them and then complain again as a extension of the first complaint.

FOLLOW THE COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE.

Always be in when they say they are calling,always let them do whatever they want however stupid it seems and follow the procedure.

They haven't the money to do it and have loads of complaints like this,nothing will be done but bodges until it hits higher level and starts to affect figures for the boss.

I work in this industry,don't fret and stress out just pin the complaints procedure on the fridge door and whatever letter they send follow what the procedure says until it says that you can contact the ombudsman.

[cymruambyth]

Here is a link to this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/240148-help-needed-script-official.html

[loopinlouie]

Is there a problem with the link, it refers me to this thread:D

 

Thanks

[loopinlouie]

Worn out today, they rang me and are going to ring back again after talking to contractor.

 

They are accusing me of ilegally recording their man in my house, it was a micromark cheap but effective camera and I did have a mobile on on record sound.

 

This was done as said before as my memory is failing after seizures apon seizures and I have in the past been told nothing is on their system on another long awaited repair and told off for not chasing them up when was in fact in bed after an epileptic seizure.

 

I will make an official complaint and plan to ask for their complaints procedure when they ring back but need help with official reporting of what I have done is not ilegal.

 

Have also posted on consumer issues as concerned to get legal speak to put them in their place as to the above issue and its impact on me telling me I am breaking the law.

 

Seriously though this is giving me chest pains, which I know are stress related, I just dont need it and am beggining to feel they are enjoying this.

[loopinlouie]

Just told they are sending surveyor and senior surveyor out to my house, finally.

 

To be fair they planned tommorow, but I am off to the doctors as need some help They due to the planned snow will come next week which is soon enough for me as need to take down xmas tree etc and tidy up bedrooms, been poorly due to stress and let things go a little.

[ashmk]

Its not Milton Keynes council by any chance is it ? I needed some beading replaced on a very dangerous upstairs window once and they went well out of there way to fob me off.

Your whole story has Milton keynes council written all over it.

[loopinlouie]

Well received no phone call and still waiting. I understand the snow has caused problems for people, but last few days main and estate roads fine. They are taking the pi** now.

[loopinlouie]

YIPPEEEEE:D

 

A man with common sence just called (housing inspector), agreed nowt wrong with window itself. Found that seal on outside of windows around the frames as I said seemed to have deteriated in the five years they have been in. Scafolding to go up and both windows to be resealed from outside.

 

He also listed three repair issues I have raised previously without success and a lot of frustration dissapeared. They are going to fix it soon.

 

As to the man who wanted to save the council thousands of pounds, well what can we say, nowt needed doing to the window pain that opened:D. Incidently I remember him saying the openining widow bolt at the top was not strong enough to hold it and it was dangerous, had a close look today and I noticed for the first time that the windows is opened by a sliding mechanism down both sides of window. What was it about a bolt, sounds like he was taking the mick.

 

As the inspector said if it aint broke dont fix it and as the windows just needed sealing thats all that should be done. I am a happy bunny today.

[loopinlouie]

Given date for repairs, all going to be done in one day:)

Spoke to a lovely woman regarding complaint and said after works done I am surely due an apology from the agents for causing such a mess reporting what needed doing and belittling me when I questioned them. Also that the council complaints dept should have concentrated more on what I had to say rather than that of the cameras in the house.

 

If I had been found to be delaying a necessary repair I could understand it, but after all I was right all along and therefore saved them money.

 

Just think they had no right to close the complaint without liasing with me. Its just down to manners, I polite and patient to them and expect the same in return.

[ashmk]

MK Council ?

[loopinlouie]

Having trouble to sleep at night, so finally nodded of on sofa this morning and am awoke to loud crunching noise. Couldnt see anything wrong and the windows looked ok, so went back to sleep. Seconds later the noise starts again and right in front of my eyes the plastic inner on the front room window pinged off the wall:-x Attached were paper blinds of no weight and in a way altough panicking like hell when I saw the other side of the plastic frame comming lose, was in the end pleased it had happened.

Ive heared similar noises for a while and normally when the sun hits the frames the window starts to crunch and it stops then sun goes in. Any how behind this plastic is one almighty great big hole, lenth five meters by about three inches and the same inches deep. I can actually see the outside light through the hole and it is obvious where the draught has been comming through and I realise the bedroom window is probably the same.

Any how I get on to the council and explain part of the window inside has fell off and continuing to so could they raise it as an emergency to get housing inspector out and repairs. Told no to the housing inspector, infact they were quite put out I asked for this and said they would get someone to come out today.

When the peice finally snapped of the end of the frame I called the complaints lady and said I have found where the draught is comming through and shocked how it come that some of the window had to fall off to find it out.

Repairs come out and it is the same two men who originally came out to the window and they stated in their view it didnt need doing straight away, anotherwords not an emergency. I asked them why they could not do something as the gap was huge and it was going to be cold tonight and they replied that they were going home not. I said that was not good enough and they said the emergency teem would not have the products to fix it and I pointed out b and q were still open. It wasnt even four pm yet.

I said I expected you not to be able to restore it straight away but you can at least fill the hole with some sort of temporary foam to stop the draught. They were saying they were going home and didnt have the product, so I said call a supervisor or boss. They went out the house and came back with foam can and filled as best they could, which was fair enough. I pointed out the huge gap at the top was not secured in any way to the window and was it safe, they reassured me it was and told me the windows had been a bad installation, which I agreed with.

Am told they will get it sorted and probably on day of scaffolding going up, fair enough.

What got me is they disputed what they had origiinally said to me about the window and bolt when I told them the housing officer had said nowt was wrong with it and he explained it fully and it turned out the terms of bolt at the top was a technical speak and refered to the arms at the side of the window holding it.

I did ask why the council told me that they had no plans to seal the frame originally and just concentrate on the opening window and was told he had inputed what needed to be done on his pda. So it turns out he had planned the windows needed investigating and they probably would have found the huge hole at the same time, but what was reported to need doing differed.

To be fair to them they will sort it I am sure, but I think anyone who has waited years for a couple of windows to be fixed would be entitled to want a list of what was to be done and dispute and query if it wasnt correct.

So will see.

 

What got me is next moday they are comming out to replace an internal door, do plastering and repair holes in wall found under wallpaper and do windows, so glad this happened now I suppose.

Thing is the council sent since the housing inspector called two callers who said they wanted to repair an internal door,the one in bits which does not even fit the frame and judged to need replacing. The first man said they would try to once again rehang it with a gap at top and bottom and I laughed and said just as well they are replacing it on monday then. To get another knock on the door wanting to assess an internal door.

 

I ask you why cant the council just do what needs doing when decided as so by themselves, without hashing it up for once.

 

Funny enough when told woman from complaints that window dropped to bits, was told that sent letter out today about complaint, I dont beleive her or a word she says.. She told me to understand she works three days a week, she obviously or someone else needs to work full time to make sure they respond at least as promised

[loopinlouie]

Apparantly this peice of plastic was held onto the wall by a sort of gunk like super super glue, yet it was not sealed in any way. The huge gap is something to be seen. I did say to the countil that my paper blinds, not expensive and the surrounding wallpaper were damaged and her reply was nothing to do with us. I said what about neglegence. If it was sorted promptly it would not have happend. The repair men had to ask me to pull them off the plastic and they were torn, as said only cheap, but I feel the council should bend over backwards to replace them. Dont think I will hold my breath about this though. The blinds were cheap paper ones from homebase I only paid about 25.oo in all and they weigh less than feather, but the council dont give a sh**

 

Should be grateful I found the bleeding hole I suppose