Bailiff - warant for arrest

[Tilly84]

Hi

 

This is a bit of a long read, but I'd be grateful for any advice. I'm having problems with a bailiff that is trying to recover money from me. I owe the council around £200 in council tax arrears. When I first heard from the bailiff, I immediately set up a payment plan with them for £10 a fortnight. This is all I can afford as I am a single parent.

 

I have kept with this plan, up until 3 weeks ago when I moved house. Due to moving house, I couldn't afford to make one of the payments, however I paid double the following month and I'm now back up to date.

 

I didn't think this would be a problem but last week the bailiff pushed a note through my door saying he wants payment in full or he will take all of my furniture. I told him that all of my furniture is hired from Perfect Homes, and I don't own any of my own furniture, and also that I can't afford to pay him in full but will continue paying the agreed payment plan. He said he'll no longer accept this and still wants the payment in full, or he'll come back for whatever possessions I do own.

 

Now today, he phoned me again and has demanded payment in full. I told him all of the above again and said I'll continue paying the previously agreed £10 per fortnight. He said no to this again, so I offered to double it to £20 per fortnight, even though I'll struggle to pay this. He said "not a chance" and that he's going to apply for a warrant for my arrest. He said "I'll do the paper work for this on Monday" and then hung up on me.

 

What can I do about this? Surely he can't apply for a warrant for my arrest when I'm trying my best to pay him? I've been paying him previously and I'm currently up to date with the payment. All of this is because I was late with one payment, which I immediately brought up to date.

 

Can anyone offer any advice on what I can do? I'm scared of been arrested on Monday now, and I'm a single parent of a 5 year old child.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Kim.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Tilly84

[lochnettie80]

hi

 

from what i have read on this site.the bailiff cant apply for warrent

he would have to refer account back to the council and then they would either set up arrangement for you to pay or take you to court for means hearing

 

the bailiff is probably trying to scare you into borrowing the money off some one

 

try not to worry some-one with more knowledge that me should be along soon to help

 

lochnettie xxx

[binded]

He's trying to scare you with the arrest warrant Kim, I was threatened that on the 1st September and I'm still free Besides that the nice people on here told the bailiffs have no authority to arrange an arrest anyways. So please take a deep breath, I'm a single parent too and am sure they use it as a tactic to frighten you into paying knowing that you won't want to be away from your kids. Sadly it must work, but its total bunkum and you won't be arrested. Even if they were to take it back to court, it would be the council and the judges say so to get a warrant for arrest and as you've been paying (albeit it with a little glitch) you would only be arrested on the say so of the court for complete refusal to pay.

 

Am sure someone will post soon with either the relevant template or the links to the templates, but you need to get the council to take the debt back and pay them instead of the bailiff. You need to also let the council know that the bailiffs are threatening you and as a single parent you'd potentially be deemed vunerable (bailiffs don't see it that way mind). Write in your letter to the council your payment plan, don't say £20 if you can only afford £10 as if you default on the council they'll send it back to the bailiffs again.

 

Get the letter written and send a copy to the bailiffs, send them recorded so you've proof you sent them.

 

DO NOT LET THE BAILIFF IN THE HOUSE, keep doors and windows locked (its a pain with kids as I well know but needs must). If you feel you need to talk to the bailiff do it from behind the locked door or an upstairs window (I've chosen not to talk to them at all as the scare the heck out of me and I don't want to put myself in a situation I'll say something I regret so its all in writing). IF you have a car get it parked elsewhere temporarily it savese on the bailiff turning up and levying on it.

 

Deep breaths, you've got the weekend to sort out your letters and you'll get there. There are lots of us on here in similar situations so have a read of the other posts and you'll find you're by no means alone.

 

Hope this offers some solace xx

[Jach]

Hi

 

This is a bit of a long read, but I'd be grateful for any advice. I'm having problems with a bailiff that is trying to recover money from me. I owe the council around £200 in council tax arrears. When I first heard from the bailiff, I immediately set up a payment plan with them for £10 a fortnight. This is all I can afford as I am a single parent.

 

I have kept with this plan, up until 3 weeks ago when I moved house. Due to moving house, I couldn't afford to make one of the payments, however I paid double the following month and I'm now back up to date.

 

I didn't think this would be a problem but last week the bailiff pushed a note through my door saying he wants payment in full or he will take all of my furniture. I told him that all of my furniture is hired from Perfect Homes, and I don't own any of my own furniture, and also that I can't afford to pay him in full but will continue paying the agreed payment plan. He said he'll no longer accept this and still wants the payment in full, or he'll come back for whatever possessions I do own.

 

Now today, he phoned me again and has demanded payment in full. I told him all of the above again and said I'll continue paying the previously agreed £10 per fortnight. He said no to this again, so I offered to double it to £20 per fortnight, even though I'll struggle to pay this. He said "not a chance" and that he's going to apply for a warrant for my arrest. He said "I'll do the paper work for this on Monday" and then hung up on me.

 

What can I do about this? Surely he can't apply for a warrant for my arrest when I'm trying my best to pay him? I've been paying him previously and I'm currently up to date with the payment. All of this is because I was late with one payment, which I immediately brought up to date.

 

Can anyone offer any advice on what I can do? I'm scared of been arrested on Monday now, and I'm a single parent of a 5 year old child.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Kim.

 

Kim do not worry, he can't arrest you, and anyway you have not refused to pay yr council tax arrears. I'm am sure you will have many more replies on yr thread regarding this. There are far, far more knowledgable people on here who will help you I'm sure. I am having problems with bailiffs myself so I do understand the stress, its awful. But don't panic the help you need is on here.

[dawnwb]

He cant get you arrested.

 

He cant enter your house unless you leave a door/window open.

 

He cant take anything that does not belong to you.

 

He cant take your car if its on finance but he can if you own it.

 

DONT call him on his phone, if you do need to speak to him do it by text and save your texts, infact i would text him right now with what you told him before, that you will continue to pay the agreed amount of £10 a week and save that text. also include in the text "please can you you send me your certificate number and the court that issued your certificate" if he trys to call you back dont answer it.

 

If you are on benifits you are a vunerable person and they should pass the debt back to the council.

 

Write to the head office of the bailiff company and ask for a full breakdown of the fees applyed to your account you can do that by sending a subject access request.

 

someone else who knows more about your subject will post more im sure.

Im no expert.

what you need to do now is chill out and dont worry about it, he cant do anything to you or your stuff;)

 

Some things to check.

On the letter did it have date and time on it?

Did he print his name?

[ambershadow]

Here's the letter's you need to send ignore tha bailiffs pay the council direct and if they havent been into your hom then don't let them or sign anything.. They can't arrest you at all tell them to go away ..

 

 

 

 

Send this one to the bailiffs with you filling in your details

 

re: YOUR ADDRESS

 

YOUR COUNCIL appears to have instructed you to recover unpaid council tax from me.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are not being given peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as you demanded because it is unrealistic. I have sent an affordable payment direct to the council along with a written schedule of repayments.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, the law says I have to settle the debt; it does not obligate me to do business with you. If you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police and you may receive a criminal record.

 

I AM NOT REFUSING TO PAY THIS DEBT.

 

Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property. If your fees are found to contradict Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint against you at your certificating court for attempting to defraud me under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

This document was sent to you recorded delivery to the above address and a copy was sent to HEAD OF council tax Recovery Dept.

 

Please also supply me with a breakdown of the fee's you have charged me

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

AND THIS ONE obviously fill in your details to the council and enclose a payment plan that you can afford for the ct you owe

 

Re: your details

On DATE I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax who overcharged me with his fees. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became vexatious in nature. I also received a letter stating I should pay WHAT THEY ASKED YOU per month to clear the debt which is unrealistic with my present financial state.

 

I now ask the council to:

 

a) Take the case back from the bailiff.

b) Accept my original offer to pay Your payment extra of what I pay already a week to clear the arrears

c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and

d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money.

 

If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman in fourteen days from the date of this letter.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of Your payment each week for 249 weekly installments with a final installment of Your payment This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of Recorded post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978, Please pass this to the relevent person within your organisation

[Rachie1973]

God some of these people need a rod up their backsides.

 

The bailiff has no powers of arrest, and they can't have the police arrest you for non payment either.

 

What happens (from experience) is that they finally give it back to the council who then contact you to tell you they have it and request you to pay since otherwise they will ask for committal to jail, which incidentally is done by a judge.

 

At this point you can make an offer of payment, usually a reasonable one to the council and they pretty much accept it.

 

That may not be exactly precise but its how it happened for me.

 

As someone else pointed out, if you're on benefits it should have been sent back before anyways.

[seanamarts]

He is just trying to bully you into paying him. I suggest that you get on to the council who you owe the debt to and explain to them what this bailiff has said and what he is trying to do. Tell them that you have only defaulted on you payments just the one time and corrected it as soon as it was possible to do so and you are up to date with payments. Can I ask if you have had any added fees from the bailiff company either recently or in the past.

I will just reiterate what others have said in here, HE CANNOT ARREST YOU

and cannot even apply for arrest warrant as you are not a non payer or have ever refused to pay this debt off. If he comes to your home in the meantime you do not have to let him in and he cannot force his way in either. Have you ever signed a WPO.

[MRSWESTHAM]

Oh Bless the bailiff trying to be the big man !!! Kim hes on a power trip he can arrest you or get you arrested. Shame he didnt text you that as he would of got himself in a spot of bother.

 

As above have you signed a walking possession?

 

[ashmk]

Hi Tilly, Dont worry he is just playing mind games with you. As already mentioned he cant do jack if you dont let him in (or let him walk in).

 

If you can borrow it then just pay the council direct online which will end the bailiff action OR just dont give him the chance to get in.

 

Remember 99% of the bailiffs actions is an act to scare you into paying.

[RHOOD]

If you are on benefits then then can't touch any of this money.

 

If you have paid off your benefits then request all the money back

 

Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

 

hope this link helps

[dawnwb]

If you are on benefits then then can't touch any of this money.

 

If you have paid off your benefits then request all the money back

 

Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

 

hope this link helps

 

Hi RHOOD, do you know which benifits you need to be getting in order to use this option? Would working tax credit be one?

[sillygirl1]

As you are a single mum you are considered to be vulnerable and the council should take back the liability, the bailiff will have loaded a lot of 'fees' onto this so STOP paying him and pay the coucil direct online instead, that way you have proof positive you are making payments to the council for this tax. The bailiff won't have passed anything onto them as he will have used it FIRST for his fees.

 

Get hold of Tomtubby on this site as they are the bailiff expert and will be able to get letters to the council and the bailiff to stop his action.

[RHOOD]

Hi RHOOD, do you know which benifits you need to be getting in order to use this option? Would working tax credit be one?

 

 

Might be a Scottish thing look at the following link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/87560-bank-account-arrestment.html

 

its about Sheriff officers in Scotland

[sillygirl1]

Here is some up to date info from the Government website on bailiffs

 

Money, tax and benefits

 

 

Bailiffs and debt collectors

 

If you owe someone money, they may try to collect the debt using a bailiff or debt collector. If these people contact or visit you, you need to know how to deal with them, and what your rights and obligations are.

 

When bailiffs may be used

 

Your creditor (the person you owe money to) can make a claim against you in the County Court. A County Court Judgment (CCJ) may be made stating you must repay the debt.

Your creditor can ask the court to issue a 'warrant of execution', which means that bailiffs may be called in to help recover the debt.

If you owe tax to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), or Council Tax to your local authority, they may send bailiffs to recover the debt.

 

• Dealing with debt problems
  
• County Court Claims and County Court Judgments (CCJs)
  

 

Debt collectors

 

Creditors may use a debt collection agency to ask you to pay off the debt.

Debt collectors aren't court officials and don't have the same powers as bailiffs. They can't enter your home or seize your possessions.

Creditors and debt collectors must follow OFT (Office of Fair Trading) debt collection guidance - pages 14 to 19 of the OFT leaflet 'Debt collection guidance' detail how debt collectors should behave.

 

• Download OFT leaflet 'Debt collection guidance' (PDF document, 336K) Opens new window
  
• Help with PDF files
  

 

If a collector harasses you, you should contact your local council's trading standards department. If they threaten you physically, contact the police.

 

• Local councils
  

 

How to avoid being visited by county court bailiffs

 

If your debt is a County Court Judgment and a warrant of execution has been issued, you can try to stop bailiffs visiting your home by filling in form N245 at your local County Court making an offer to repay the debt, for example by instalments - this should always be an offer you can afford to keep. If accepted, this will suspend the warrant so long as you keep up-to-date with the agreed payments.

 

• Find your local County Court Opens new window
  

 

What bailiffs can and can't do

 

If County Court bailiffs come to your home, you don't have to let them in.

They can't force their way in on their first visit, but they can enter through an open window, or an unlocked door. Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal.

Bailiffs trying to recover money you owe to HMRC are allowed to break into your home, providing they have a magistrates' warrant.

Bailiffs recovering unpaid magistrates' court fines, however, do have the power to force entry.

 

Negotiating with bailiffs

 

You may negotiate with bailiffs to pay some or all of the debt there and then, so they leave without taking anything. If they accept any payment from you, you'll need to make sure you get a receipt. Bailiffs may be willing to take part in a reasonable negotiation (subject to legal and contractual constraints) - only make an agreement if you can afford to stick to it.

It's likely that the bailiff's fee and expenses for each extra visit will be added to the debt you owe - you may ask for details of these at any time, and fees can be disputed. If you have questions about a bailiff's fees and expenses it's best to get advice - see 'Where to get help and advice' below.

 

What can a bailiff take?

 

Bailiffs can't take essentials such as clothing, bedding, cookers, fridges, most furniture and the 'tools of your trade' (for example, a computer you use for work).

They can take non-essential items such as your television. They can take possessions outside your home (for example, your car or garden equipment), or in unlocked sheds and garages.

 

 

Hope the above helps, it may be long but the links are there to some useful accurate documentation.

 

 

I would also try and get your local MP involved if possible....

[Fair-Parking]

The arrogant stupidity of bailiffs never ceases to amaze me. Tilly, we do not arrest people in this country for debt. We closed our last debtors prison in 1869. Besides, private citizens which this brainless bully is, have no powers of arrest in these circumstances

 

You can only be arrested for non payment of council tax if a) you refuse to pay or b) have been 'willfully negligent, what ever that is supposed to mean, as to my knowledge no council has ever been able to prove such a scenario. You cannot be willfully negligent on benefits as that is the amount the government has decided you need to live on.

 

Further there would be a magistrates hearing before any arrrest took place. One whereby you can have your say. You would be notified of a date by the court and given at least a couple of weeks notice. In the highly, highly unlikely event of an arrest warrant being issued (and you can rest assured that would never happen at a first hearing providing that you attend) it would be the police who would carry out the arrest. And even they would phone you first and try and persuade you to pay.

 

Just work on the premise that all private bailiffs are liars and you can't go wrong.

 

Pay the council direct an agreed regular small and manageable amount and don't pay the bailiffs anything as they cannot enforce their fees. In other words they have no powers, just big mouths, small brains and nasty narrow selfish minds. And don't ever let them in.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Fair-Parking

[Tilly84]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks very much for all of the advice, I feel a lot better and a lot less stressed now. I haven't been back on here to reply because I've been staying at my mums because I didn't want to stay at home on my own with my 5 year old child - stupid I know, but I was worried in case he came back over the weekend.

 

The thing is, I signed a walking possession order a few months ago because I didn't really know anything about bailiffs or the law, and he kept saying he was going to break my door in and take all of my furniture. And every time I looked out of my window he was sat outside watching me and I couldn't go out. He was constantly phoning my mum's house too and I just wanted him to go away.

 

Does this possession order change anything? Also, the only furniture he listed was the furniture that I rent from Perfect Homes. I told him I didn't own the furniture, but he didn't believe me and listed it anyway.

 

In answer to one of the questions above: they have added quite a lot of charges. I'm not sure how much though as he'll never discuss my account fully with me. He just shouts at me and tells me to go and get a loan or lend the money from friends/family. He won't answer any questions that I ask him. I tried to phone the bailiff's office direct and they said I can only deal with the bailiff.

 

Thanks again for all of the help and advice.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, lets get one thing straight here - the bailiff is supposed to collect a debt within published guidelines - he is NOT supposed to stalk you, threaten you, or ring your mother. First thing tomorrow morning you should contact your local councillor, your MP and take this letter to the council offices:

....................................................................Your Address

 

Date:

 

Council address

 

 

 

Council Tax Reference No:

 

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT

 

I am writing this complaint with regard to the behaviour of a bailiff (Mr XXX) employed by yourselves in collection of council tax arrears.

 

To date this man has:

 

Sat outside my house for long periods of time watching me

Threatened to bring a warrant for my arrest

Telephoned my mother

Refused to accept my offers of payment despite my explanation that I had moved house and had added expense.

 

I have today contacted my local councillor and my MP to intervene on my behalf.

 

I have no intention of avoiding payment of the arrears and have asked the council to let me pay them direct to avoid having to deal with this man - my request has been refused.

 

For your further information, I am a single mother with a 5 year old child who is on benefits and I consider myself to be in a vulnerable position with this bailiff.

 

I look forward to your response within the timescales of your published complaints procedure.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

XXXX.

 

Take two copies of the letter and get whoever you hand it to, to sign one copy to prove it's been received. Keep that copy safe.

 

Do you have receipts for all the payments you have already made? if so, take copies to the council - you need to get them to tell you what the balance outstanding is, the bailiff company will have taken your payments off their charges first!

 

Ell

[ambershadow]

Tilly

He can't take the stuff if it's not your's so it's his fault not your's the wpo is null and void as the stuff is rented and he should have really checked this out before threatening you with all this..

[ambershadow]

Ahh I see you have Ellen now to help you

[Tilly84]

Hi Ell and ambershadow,

 

Thanks for the letter and the advice.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Tilly84

[hallowitch]

and if he threatens you with arrest again while you are trying to sort this out call his bluff ask him when he is coming to arrest you because you will need to inform the social work department to send a social worker to take your son as you are a single parent and have no one to look after him

 

bet that shuts him up:)

[ambershadow]

Unfortunatley all bailiffs hope you don't come into contact with this site and learn your rights as then they can't take you for a ride anymore..

 

Why they do this in the first place I just don't know as they are breaking every rule in the book But seem to get away with it untill poeple fimd this and us here on this forum..

 

Good Luck and REMEMBER your in charge not them they are just normal people like me and you that have to use tactics to get money such as fraud

[Tilly84]

Just out of interest - are all bailiffs supposed to be on the certified bailiffs register? I've just checked and he isn't on there. There is however a bailiff on there with a similar name. The name he gave me is the first and middle name of a bailiff on the register. What he said is his surname, is actually the middle name of the only bailiff on there that matches, if that makes sense?

[Ell-enn]

Did he ever show you his ID car? bailiffs are supposed to show them - after all they could be anyone !